Ballast system for sunsetter DD

[cla10beck]

I am looking to build a ballast system for my 98 sunsetter lx DD. I looking at using a jabsco ballast buddy reversible pump and putting a Straight Line tube sac in the ski locker. I would also like to put a sac in the rear, but I am not sure how fit a sac in back of the boat.

Has anybody built a similar system for a SSLX, and how did the rear ballast work? I am trying to avoid having any sacs on the floor of the boat for a nice clean look. I don't have the SSLXi, so I don't have the large locker in the back of the boat, but I do have the wake wull.

I do have a wedge and I also wonder how much this will help the wake.

Any thoughts would be appreciated

[jetskipro550]

I know this is going to sound harsh, but take it from me, doing a ballast system in a DD doesn't make it all that much easier. You still need to move hoses and bags around so you might as well just buy two Fly High 750's, 2 pumps, and call it good. I spent all last spring and a good part of the summer trying to make my ballast system work and in the end it really didn't save any hassle, cost me a lot of money, and WAS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT!!!

To make matters worse, no one who was interested in buying our boat wanted anything to do with a "home made ballast system." Since it wasn't dealer installed they didn't put any faith in it. It didn't leak, worked pretty good, and looked ok, but everyone who I talked to was a little timid and had LOTS of questions about it. Thats why I will be pulling it ALL out in the next few weeks.

If the boat would have been a v-drive it would have been much easier because I wouldn't have had to deal with making the sacks and hoses "quick disconnects", hoses on the floor, manual valves, and pumps not attached to the sacks. It would have been much easier and worth the effort on a v-drive.

It was a sad realization when I figured out that filling up a sack was just as easy as using my "semi-automatic" system and a few minutes faster. Also, I made my system using Straight Line sacks and this summer I won a Fly High 750 at the NOR CAL WOW and I liked that sack so much better that I ended up just filling it across the back and not even messing with my ballast system.

[WakeGirl]

Well, it doesn't sound to me like he's after a VLX type of wake (which is what I think you were always after JSP ), just to add a little to what he's got to maximize the wedge & to make it clean. Besides, he's got the wake hull & that does make a difference. Am I on the right track on that cla?

We had an '04 Wakesetter direct drive that is essentially the same boat. We ordered it with the center MLS which is a pretty simple system, so that one actually shouldn't be too hard to replicate. The Straightline Tube Sac as I recall is a good choice for that locker since (again IIRC) it's about the right size. You can buy stock MLS switches, & the plumbing is pretty straightforward since there should be a drain plug right there in that compartment to use for the fill pump. The rear is a little more complicated, but we overcame that. Which back seat do you have in your boat?

[jetskipro550]

Well, it doesn't sound to me like he's after a VLX type of wake (which is what I think you were always after JSP ), just to add a little to what he's got to maximize the wedge & to make it clean. Besides, he's got the wake hull & that does make a difference. Am I on the right track on that cla?

We had an '04 Wakesetter direct drive that is essentially the same boat. We ordered it with the center MLS which is a pretty simple system, so that one actually shouldn't be too hard to replicate. The Straightline Tube Sac as I recall is a good choice for that locker since (again IIRC) it's about the right size. You can buy stock MLS switches, & the plumbing is pretty straightforward since there should be a drain plug right there in that compartment to use for the fill pump. The rear is a little more complicated, but we overcame that. Which back seat do you have in your boat?

Who isn't after a VLX type wake

Maybe I am just a little down on ballast systems cause after going through all that effort to put it in, I have to take it out...

[WakeGirl]

That's understandable. Still, I think that as long as you have reasonable expectations relative to the boat & its limitations, you can be very satisfied with the outcome. We were really happy with what we put in the yellow boat - it always worked with no problems & really made a difference in the boarding wake, & with just one extra sack on the surf side, we were able to achieve a surfable wave.

[Lieutenant Dan]

That's understandable. Still, I think that as long as you have reasonable expectations relative to the boat & its limitations, you can be very satisfied with the outcome. We were really happy with what we put in the yellow boat - it always worked with no problems & really made a difference in the boarding wake, & with just one extra sack on the surf side, we were able to achieve a surfable wave.

What ballast set-up did you use in the back of your DD Wakesetter?

[WakeGirl]

That's understandable. Still, I think that as long as you have reasonable expectations relative to the boat & its limitations, you can be very satisfied with the outcome. We were really happy with what we put in the yellow boat - it always worked with no problems & really made a difference in the boarding wake, & with just one extra sack on the surf side, we were able to achieve a surfable wave.

What ballast set-up did you use in the back of your DD Wakesetter?

I'm at work right now & it's very busy, so I can't do this right now, but later I'll see if I can find my old writeup on it.

[cla10beck]

Well, it doesn't sound to me like he's after a VLX type of wake (which is what I think you were always after JSP ), just to add a little to what he's got to maximize the wedge & to make it clean. Besides, he's got the wake hull & that does make a difference. Am I on the right track on that cla?

We had an '04 Wakesetter direct drive that is essentially the same boat. We ordered it with the center MLS which is a pretty simple system, so that one actually shouldn't be too hard to replicate. The Straightline Tube Sac as I recall is a good choice for that locker since (again IIRC) it's about the right size. You can buy stock MLS switches, & the plumbing is pretty straightforward since there should be a drain plug right there in that compartment to use for the fill pump. The rear is a little more complicated, but we overcame that. Which back seat do you have in your boat?

you are correct, I just want to add about 6-800lbs (350 in ski locker and 350 more in the rear) of ballast without effecting the floor space.

To answer your second question, I have the back seat that is removable and can be moved to sit on the gunwale like a sun pad. Only the seat back has storage behind it, but that storage is on top of the fuel tank, so I don't think I want to put a sack in there.

Edited November 8, 2007 by cla10beck

[WakeGirl]

Okay, here's what I was able to dig up. I no longer own this boat, so I had to find old pictures on this & obviously don't have an opportunity to take more. Here's the rundown:

Our boat was ordered with the center MLS, but we changed out the bag for a larger one. In hindsight, I'm not sure that it's worth the effort because I don't think that you gain that much. The Fly High Tube Sack or Straightline would probably work just fine. For the center locker, I went with the Fluid Concepts 1000lb bag & for the rear I went with a Fly High Tube Sac, rated at 350 lbs when full.

Rear - This is where it gets interesting. We decided against putting the bag in the trunk for a variety of reasons, the 2 main ones being that the gas tank is back there & would have taken substantial work to reinforce, & we would lose our storage spot for all of our vests, wetsuits, ropes etc. while the bag was full. So this left the back seat. We pulled the 2 bottom supports off of the seat & built a custom box as shown in the pictures below. It made the seat sit slightly higher than stock, & the base came out a little further, but otherwise looked stock. The space is slightly smaller than the bag when it's full, so the net gain was closer to 275-300 pounds when full, but with the wake hull it does make a difference.

This was what we did, but if your boat allows you to put that rear seat up out of the way, then a custom box wouldn't really be needed IMO. You could just plumb the bag in with quick disconnects (or not, you may not even need to since the seat would sit right over the bag while it's empty) & plan to keep the seat up while the sack is full. If you have a lot of people on the boat then that may not be realistic, I don't know. But this should give you some ideas. Remember that if you do build a custom base, you need to plumb & wire it in such a way as to allow you to remove it easily enough to check the packing & get to the shaft area if needed.

[cla10beck]

Thanks for the info. I think I will try to do something similar. I will post pics when I am finshed, but I suspect that it won't be until the spring.

One more question, what type of pump setup did you use? Reversible or aerator type pumps. It seems like a reversible pump system would be the easiest, but the most expensive as well.

[WakeGirl]

We used aerators in that system & it worked quite well. Both bags had 3 valves on them, so you could have 1 for fill, 1 for empty & 1 for venting. A loop in the fill line kept the bag from draining back through the fill pump, & IIRC I don't think that we needed a loop in the vent or empty lines because of the route that we took (we drilled the holes up next to the bilge pump thru-hole & used the same fittings for a stock look). Because those lines were tucked up under the gunnels & because the lines were going forward, I think that they were high enough to prevent any draining. The system was probably the fastest, most reliable system that I've done to date, & I include the system that I did in my current boat in that statement.

[Intense]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I'm on the same boat (pun intended) as the OP.

Tracy, would you mind describing how you used the aerator pumps to fill and drain the ballast. Did you have two pumps on each sac (total of 4)? If so, how did you connect them? IE, did you use the blue waterbed connectors to connect the pump directly to the sac? Or did you have a tube coming out of the pumps into the sac? Where, then, did you mount the pumps?

Did you drill a hole for each fill and drain? It sounds like you put the drains near the existing bilge hole.

Since I've got an older 'Bu, I'm not the newer switches will look right. But someone posted a link to the older style 3-way rotary switch I may be able to use for the fill/drain.

Sorry for all the questions, but trying to incorporate a ballast system into a DD has proven to be quite the challenge.

[WakeGirl]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I'm on the same boat (pun intended) as the OP.

Tracy, would you mind describing how you used the aerator pumps to fill and drain the ballast. Did you have two pumps on each sac (total of 4)? If so, how did you connect them? IE, did you use the blue waterbed connectors to connect the pump directly to the sac? Or did you have a tube coming out of the pumps into the sac? Where, then, did you mount the pumps?

Did you drill a hole for each fill and drain? It sounds like you put the drains near the existing bilge hole.

Since I've got an older 'Bu, I'm not the newer switches will look right. But someone posted a link to the older style 3-way rotary switch I may be able to use for the fill/drain.

Sorry for all the questions, but trying to incorporate a ballast system into a DD has proven to be quite the challenge.

No problem, but just keep in mind that I put that system together almost 4 years ago. My memory is good, but I'm not sure if it's that good.

Let's see, there was 1 fill pump & 1 drain pump on each sack. For those sacks, I did not use the waterbed connectors (even though at the time that was the easiest quick connector available for that type of bag) because they were so flimsy & prone to breaking. IIRC, I used gray barbed fittings that I purchased at Home Depot & connected in that way - I think that it was basically like a coupler that had a barbed fitting on each side of it, allowing you to connect a hose very easily to the bag. Of course, using Pro X bags & their fittings would be easier now.

When referring to that rear bag in the pictures....

The fill pump was plumbed into the existing spare plug that I had in the bilge area next to the driver. There are a number of pumps that will fit - Tsunami 800 would be a good choice. The drain pump was more of a challenge, & you can't see it in the pictures. On the left side of the box we drilled a hole that was large enough to fish the fitting attached to the bag through & attach it to a pump that sits on the outside of the box, with the port sticking into that fitting through the hole (so the pump is sitting on its side, with the body outside of the box). We put the drain hole right next to the bilge drain that sits mid-ships, so it looked totally stock. Auto draining was not a problem because of both the length of the run as well as the fact that we put a big loop in the line to prevent that from happening. The system worked well, & the only thing that we had to watch for was that the bag wouldn't completely empty on its own so we'd have to give it a little help at the end of the day. Probably the best part of it was that it actually gave us a little more storage area for when we didn't have the bag full, & we could use it when trailering to our lake. We netted around 250 lbs in that spot, & I did actually verify that at one point so I'm not blowing smoke.

For the center MLS, it was already there since we ordered the boat with it, but adding it would be relatively straightforward. Using a tube sack in that area is probably the best choice since a larger sack won't really gain you much if any due to space constraints. Just remember, when you're working with aerator pumps, the closer that you can get the pump to the source (whether it's the bag or the water in the lake), the better off you're going to be. Ideally you want the drain pump attached directly to the bottom of the bag, & the fill pump in a plug that sits in the hull. That's your best shot at eliminating prime difficulties. Any other questions, I'm happy to try & help.

[Intense]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I'm on the same boat (pun intended) as the OP.

Tracy, would you mind describing how you used the aerator pumps to fill and drain the ballast. Did you have two pumps on each sac (total of 4)? If so, how did you connect them? IE, did you use the blue waterbed connectors to connect the pump directly to the sac? Or did you have a tube coming out of the pumps into the sac? Where, then, did you mount the pumps?

Did you drill a hole for each fill and drain? It sounds like you put the drains near the existing bilge hole.

Since I've got an older 'Bu, I'm not the newer switches will look right. But someone posted a link to the older style 3-way rotary switch I may be able to use for the fill/drain.

Sorry for all the questions, but trying to incorporate a ballast system into a DD has proven to be quite the challenge.

No problem, but just keep in mind that I put that system together almost 4 years ago. My memory is good, but I'm not sure if it's that good.

Let's see, there was 1 fill pump & 1 drain pump on each sack. For those sacks, I did not use the waterbed connectors (even though at the time that was the easiest quick connector available for that type of bag) because they were so flimsy & prone to breaking. IIRC, I used gray barbed fittings that I purchased at Home Depot & connected in that way - I think that it was basically like a coupler that had a barbed fitting on each side of it, allowing you to connect a hose very easily to the bag. Of course, using Pro X bags & their fittings would be easier now.

When referring to that rear bag in the pictures....

The fill pump was plumbed into the existing spare plug that I had in the bilge area next to the driver. There are a number of pumps that will fit - Tsunami 800 would be a good choice. The drain pump was more of a challenge, & you can't see it in the pictures. On the left side of the box we drilled a hole that was large enough to fish the fitting attached to the bag through & attach it to a pump that sits on the outside of the box, with the port sticking into that fitting through the hole (so the pump is sitting on its side, with the body outside of the box). We put the drain hole right next to the bilge drain that sits mid-ships, so it looked totally stock. Auto draining was not a problem because of both the length of the run as well as the fact that we put a big loop in the line to prevent that from happening. The system worked well, & the only thing that we had to watch for was that the bag wouldn't completely empty on its own so we'd have to give it a little help at the end of the day. Probably the best part of it was that it actually gave us a little more storage area for when we didn't have the bag full, & we could use it when trailering to our lake. We netted around 250 lbs in that spot, & I did actually verify that at one point so I'm not blowing smoke.

For the center MLS, it was already there since we ordered the boat with it, but adding it would be relatively straightforward. Using a tube sack in that area is probably the best choice since a larger sack won't really gain you much if any due to space constraints. Just remember, when you're working with aerator pumps, the closer that you can get the pump to the source (whether it's the bag or the water in the lake), the better off you're going to be. Ideally you want the drain pump attached directly to the bottom of the bag, & the fill pump in a plug that sits in the hull. That's your best shot at eliminating prime difficulties. Any other questions, I'm happy to try & help.

Tracy,

Thanks for the input. Another question, will the Tsunami provide enough force to push water all the way to the rear sac? Would you suggest I drill a thru-hull specifically for the fill on the ski locker sac?

I really like the idea of building that box. Right now, the sac I use back there just flops around and gets in the way. A box would be a great way to contain the sac and provide some support to mount the hoses.

Guess I need into picking up a couple more pumps and a thru-hull :eek:

I have a tube sac in the ski locker now. But it always bunches up at the door end of the locker. I'm thinking about velcro-ing the sac to the floor of the ski locker. Has anyone done that before?

thanks again!

[Intense]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I'm on the same boat (pun intended) as the OP.

Tracy, would you mind describing how you used the aerator pumps to fill and drain the ballast. Did you have two pumps on each sac (total of 4)? If so, how did you connect them? IE, did you use the blue waterbed connectors to connect the pump directly to the sac? Or did you have a tube coming out of the pumps into the sac? Where, then, did you mount the pumps?

Did you drill a hole for each fill and drain? It sounds like you put the drains near the existing bilge hole.

Since I've got an older 'Bu, I'm not the newer switches will look right. But someone posted a link to the older style 3-way rotary switch I may be able to use for the fill/drain.

Sorry for all the questions, but trying to incorporate a ballast system into a DD has proven to be quite the challenge.

No problem, but just keep in mind that I put that system together almost 4 years ago. My memory is good, but I'm not sure if it's that good.

Let's see, there was 1 fill pump & 1 drain pump on each sack. For those sacks, I did not use the waterbed connectors (even though at the time that was the easiest quick connector available for that type of bag) because they were so flimsy & prone to breaking. IIRC, I used gray barbed fittings that I purchased at Home Depot & connected in that way - I think that it was basically like a coupler that had a barbed fitting on each side of it, allowing you to connect a hose very easily to the bag. Of course, using Pro X bags & their fittings would be easier now.

When referring to that rear bag in the pictures....

The fill pump was plumbed into the existing spare plug that I had in the bilge area next to the driver. There are a number of pumps that will fit - Tsunami 800 would be a good choice. The drain pump was more of a challenge, & you can't see it in the pictures. On the left side of the box we drilled a hole that was large enough to fish the fitting attached to the bag through & attach it to a pump that sits on the outside of the box, with the port sticking into that fitting through the hole (so the pump is sitting on its side, with the body outside of the box). We put the drain hole right next to the bilge drain that sits mid-ships, so it looked totally stock. Auto draining was not a problem because of both the length of the run as well as the fact that we put a big loop in the line to prevent that from happening. The system worked well, & the only thing that we had to watch for was that the bag wouldn't completely empty on its own so we'd have to give it a little help at the end of the day. Probably the best part of it was that it actually gave us a little more storage area for when we didn't have the bag full, & we could use it when trailering to our lake. We netted around 250 lbs in that spot, & I did actually verify that at one point so I'm not blowing smoke.

For the center MLS, it was already there since we ordered the boat with it, but adding it would be relatively straightforward. Using a tube sack in that area is probably the best choice since a larger sack won't really gain you much if any due to space constraints. Just remember, when you're working with aerator pumps, the closer that you can get the pump to the source (whether it's the bag or the water in the lake), the better off you're going to be. Ideally you want the drain pump attached directly to the bottom of the bag, & the fill pump in a plug that sits in the hull. That's your best shot at eliminating prime difficulties. Any other questions, I'm happy to try & help.

Tracy,

Thanks for the input. Another question, will the Tsunami provide enough force to push water all the way to the rear sac? Would you suggest I drill a thru-hull specifically for the fill on the ski locker sac?

I really like the idea of building that box. Right now, the sac I use back there just flops around and gets in the way. A box would be a great way to contain the sac and provide some support to mount the hoses.

Guess I need into picking up a couple more pumps and a thru-hull :eek:

I have a tube sac in the ski locker now. But it always bunches up at the door end of the locker. I'm thinking about velcro-ing the sac to the floor of the ski locker. Has anyone done that before?

thanks again!

[WakeGirl]

Not sure about the bunching problem. The newer boats have a little wall that's built in between the plugs & the end of the sack, to keep the sack in its own space & keep things tidy. You could probably do something like that a little easier. And I definitely recommend having each fill pump on its own plug, you'll have a lot fewer problems with prime that way.

The box was awesome. It was very solid & both looked & felt stock. We built it so that it sat slightly higher than the stock seat did, but it really wasn't noticeable (especially to those that didn't know what to look for). Just make sure that you use a material that will hold up to the elements. We used marine plywood & then sealed the heck out of it with fiberglass resin. You also need to be sure that you can easily move it so that you can get to the panel underneath (packing nut is right under that spot). We didn't need to access that point more than a couple times a year, but it's something worth considering.