Perfect Pass Preference

[Lieutenant Dan]

Break out another thousand (plus)...I am adding PP Digital Pro to the Sunsetter this weekend.

An ex-bu owner friend mentioned that he found speed mode frustrating for use with wakeboarding (surging from the paddlewheel sensor coming out of the water due to waves or turning sharply) on his RLXI. He said he resorted to using RPM mode for wakeboarding.

Is that a common problem? I'm a bit concerned about drilling a 2" hole in the hull and also don't like the idea that I will need to tape up or remove the paddlewheel every time I tow so am thinking about leaving it out entirely....Is that wise?

[JohnDoe]

First, if you're not in a rocky area, I wouldn't think you need to tape it up. Your friend's problems seem odd...perhaps a bent wheel axle that is causing the probs and he's attributing it to the waves or turns? rpm vs speed is a matter of preference, but with a lot of weight and a good rider, the speed will dance a lot more in rpm.

[UWSkier]

Is the paddlewheel in the factory location on your friend's RLXi? The only boat I've ever heard of having surging issues was the 23' but that has since been addressed with a different paddlewheel.

[Polock]

Is the paddlewheel in the factory location on your friend's RLXi? The only boat I've ever heard of having surging issues was the 23' but that has since been addressed with a different paddlewheel.

If you know something about a different paddle wheel please clue me in!!!!!

[Jimmy Buffett]

Mine surges in speed mode and I don't use it for that reason. I use RPM mode exclusively.

[WakeGirl]

It depends on the location of the paddlewheel. We had nothing but problems with speed mode on our DD Wakesetter, & it turned out to be that there was a plug installed directly in front of the paddlewheel. It could never get clean water as a result & was incredibly frustrating to use. We ended up using rpm mode pretty much exclusively on that boat & it worked fine that way. So even if you have a proven hull that should it should work well on, if they decide to do something different at the factory in terms of location then it can hose up the entire thing.

When you do your install, make sure that nothing & I mean nothing is in front of that paddlewheel. Even something as flat as the sensor for the depth finder can screw things up (this according to PP CS).

[jgouveia3]

First, if you're not in a rocky area, I wouldn't think you need to tape it up. ......

I didn't think taping it up had anything to do with rocks or not. It has to do with towing at speed, and the wheel turning at a high rate of speed due to the wind, and wearing the wheel out (BICBW).

[UWSkier]

Is the paddlewheel in the factory location on your friend's RLXi? The only boat I've ever heard of having surging issues was the 23' but that has since been addressed with a different paddlewheel.

If you know something about a different paddle wheel please clue me in!!!!!

I'm sure someone here will chime in. I seem to recall reading something about it a week or so ago.

[WakeGirl]

Is the paddlewheel in the factory location on your friend's RLXi? The only boat I've ever heard of having surging issues was the 23' but that has since been addressed with a different paddlewheel.

If you know something about a different paddle wheel please clue me in!!!!!

I'm sure someone here will chime in. I seem to recall reading something about it a week or so ago.

Yes, it was a longer paddlewheel that they came up with to fix the problems that came up on the '03 & earlier 23' LSV's. It was never proven to be a consistent problem on any hull but that one, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't use that paddlewheel if you've got a location problem like I did. The last time that I spoke with PP about it, they still had a few left but weren't making any anymore. So it might be worth putting a call into them to see.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Mine surges in speed mode and I don't use it for that reason. I use RPM mode exclusively.

So is there any reason at all then to need the paddlewheel and/or speed mode? I am thinking that if I get the system calibrated correctly I will at least always have an accurate speed reading e.g. when not using PP and when my Venturi/Pitots get clogged again for the umpteenth time. Any other reasons to install the paddlewheel?

Where exactly is yours installed on your SSLXI? Did you install yourself? If so, any "local knowledge" you can impart so that I don't get stuck?

[SacRiverRat]

I really can't use RPM mode for any loaded wakeboarding. Try it yourself.. pull someone with the boat loaded - get your rider up, and then hold that RPM, don't make ANY adjustments.. make a few turns but don't change the RPM.

Works ok at faster speeds, or in an unloaded boat - but if you load up, the RPMs are going to need some help to hold the speed nicely.

Don't be freaked out about the hole - you already have 10 or so holes in the hull - what's one more

[SacRiverRat]

An ex-bu owner friend mentioned that he found speed mode frustrating for use with wakeboarding (surging from the paddlewheel sensor coming out of the water due to waves or turning sharply) on his RLXI. He said he resorted to using RPM mode for wakeboarding.

A better plan is to avoid making sharp turns while pulling your rider, or dragging them through big waves - why would someone do that anway

I'd agree that that will briefly throw off speed mode - but with the PP you can sorta help it out with a hand on the throttle to keep it from doing anything funny.

[Hman442]

Perfect pass does not have anymore of the "longer" paddlewheel/brass canoe units that they were using on the 23' LSV Diamond hulls to try to correct the shortcomings. I just installed PP on my LSV, because the old Accuski was getting so frustrating. Now, just as PP warned me, I am almost as frustrated but $1100.00 lighter in the wallet. Speed mode is unusable - as they told me it probably would be - so no hard feeling against them. RPM mode is smooth , but as SRR states, weight and a good rider would need some adjustments while riding. The longer paddlewheel only helped 15% of the problem boats, is why they quit making handling them.

The Sunsetter hull shouldn't be as bad as the LSV, but it sounds like more people have trouble with speed mode than not. As stated earlier, the 2" hole is not really a big deal, but if you end up using rpm mode all the time anyway, why have the hole.

This morning PP emailed me concerning my LSV problem & mentioned that "in a few months", they will have a system out that will control speed in my boat nicely - but could not give me any details at this time. Can you say GPS ?

Previously, I had asked them about getting the older circuit board for my system that utilized the pitot tubes, instead of the paddlewheel - my old Accuski with the pitots held speed great - when it was functioning. They still had a few of thoses boards, but no software any longer to program them. Soo, I'll be anxiously waiting a few months.

[WakeGirl]

Maybe you guys could try the shim mod that SacRiverRat employed.

[Hman442]

Maybe you guys could try the shim mod that SacRiverRat employed.

I went to Lowes & bought a chunk of corian type sidesplash to do just that - then PP told me that it only fixed about 15% of them, so that kind of took the wind out of my sails - plus, it was way hot in my shop this week , I may do it a little later & see. I also thought about silicone gluing two strips ahead of the wheel - in a V shape - to "funnel" the water into the paddlewheel - if the problem is aerated water not turning the paddlewheel well enough, that might fix the problem. Mark @ PP thought that was an interesting idea ?

[WakeGirl]

That is an interesting idea, & one that's so simple to try. If it doesn't work, you haven't torn your boat apart. And if it does work, you didn't have to tear your boat apart.

[Hman442]

That is an interesting idea, & one that's so simple to try. If it doesn't work, you haven't torn your boat apart. And if it does work, you didn't have to tear your boat apart.

And if it did work, all the LSV owners would look to me as if I were a God of speed control

[SacRiverRat]

There is a strake in front of the paddlewheel.. way up near the ski locker - I think that is the culperet.

Lance - you need to get familiar with the NM and KDW settings. I was able to tune out a lot of the BS that I was getting.. that helps

Also get your boarders to ride faster. My Speed mode works "great" >21mph ... assuming I don't turn or go over any waves.. but that is short lived, and I can just adjust the throttle temporarily, and do my best not to turn anyway

[Lieutenant Dan]

Mine surges in speed mode and I don't use it for that reason. I use RPM mode exclusively.

So is there any reason at all then to need the paddlewheel and/or speed mode? I am thinking that if I get the system calibrated correctly I will at least always have an accurate speed reading e.g. when not using PP and when my Venturi/Pitots get clogged again for the umpteenth time.

Whew...man, a lot of examples of the PP not working in speed mode very well....again, any response to what I said above? Is the paddlewheel at least effective for giving good speed readings when not engaging the PP? Or does it not work that way....

[WakeGirl]

Mine surges in speed mode and I don't use it for that reason. I use RPM mode exclusively.

So is there any reason at all then to need the paddlewheel and/or speed mode? I am thinking that if I get the system calibrated correctly I will at least always have an accurate speed reading e.g. when not using PP and when my Venturi/Pitots get clogged again for the umpteenth time.

Whew...man, a lot of examples of the PP not working in speed mode very well....again, any response to what I said above? Is the paddlewheel at least effective for giving good speed readings when not engaging the PP? Or does it not work that way....

Yes, it is effective for that, although one of the symptoms for those that have difficulty with speed mode is that the speed will vary by a bit. What I would do was to split the difference between the range of what it was telling me & that was usually pretty close according to my GPS unit.

[wienrdog]

It should still be good for speed readings when not engaging PP. I know many have had issues & these are not 'bu's, but we had no problems running in speed mode on 2 separate boats. MC205V & Supra Launch.

[Big Mac]

I always use speed mode on Wakeboard Pro for hydrofoiling. I did tweak some of the settings (KdW and NN) in the computer, which helped. With Perfect Pass, location of the paddlewheel is key. It's gotta have clean water flow, and it needs to be far enough back that nose-high attitude in some chop will still leave the paddlewheel in the water all the time. That's harder on a V-drive because of the usual gas tank location - you want that location to be easily accessible for installing it and changing it if necessary, so on a V-drive it usually ends up being more mid-hull, leaving it more vulnerable to chop and therefore less accurate speed sensing. In speed mode, my Wakeboard Pro will maintain speed best in a right turn - a left turn causes the boat to speed up quite a bit.

[Big Mac]

So is there any reason at all then to need the paddlewheel and/or speed mode? I am thinking that if I get the system calibrated correctly I will at least always have an accurate speed reading e.g. when not using PP and when my Venturi/Pitots get clogged again for the umpteenth time. Any other reasons to install the paddlewheel?

But you would have to calibrate it for every boat load, and every boarder. For any given weight of the boat (fuel, people, ballast) your boat will want a different RPM setting for a given speed. I'd really encourage you to install the paddlewheel. In addition to better speed management, you'll have a dead-on accurate digital speedometer and concerns about clogged pitots would be a thing of the past.

If you aren't going to use the paddlewheel (a mistake, IMHO) you might as well save yourself some money and just get Perfect Pass Cruise, which is RPM only.

[sunscapeJeff]

We have the 23 LSV Diamond Hull, and we've been happy with the perfect pass. We've found that weighting down the bow of the boat helps keep the speed steady. It seems the bigger hulls are more prone to nosing up. The only time I have problems is when I have people sitting on the sun deck or full ballast in the rear lockers with a full boat of people (all sitting in the main area). The boat just never seems to plane and the perfect pass just goes up and down, trying to get a good speed. I'm not sure RPM mode would help in those circumstances.

If we're surfing, I have to put a 350 lb ballast in the center locker, and another 350 lb ballast in the bow, in addition to my 600-700 in the surf-side rear. For normal boarding, the 350 lb ballast in the center locker is fine. But if I put a 400 lb ballast in each of the rear lockers, I've found that the extra 350 lb tube sac in the bow helps a lot. We like to use the wedge a lot too, so that affects the planing as well.

I believe we have the extension, but looking under the boat, it's not extending it very far. Maybe a half inch.

Edited July 6, 2007 by sunscapeJeff

[jgouveia3]

So is there any reason at all then to need the paddlewheel and/or speed mode? I am thinking that if I get the system calibrated correctly I will at least always have an accurate speed reading e.g. when not using PP and when my Venturi/Pitots get clogged again for the umpteenth time. Any other reasons to install the paddlewheel?

But you would have to calibrate it for every boat load, and every boarder. For any given weight of the boat (fuel, people, ballast) your boat will want a different RPM setting for a given speed. I'd really encourage you to install the paddlewheel. In addition to better speed management, you'll have a dead-on accurate digital speedometer and concerns about clogged pitots would be a thing of the past.

If you aren't going to use the paddlewheel (a mistake, IMHO) you might as well save yourself some money and just get Perfect Pass Cruise, which is RPM only.

I disagree. If you aren't going to do the paddlewheel, the go with Perfect Pass Plus. It is RPM based only, but at least you can preselect speeds based on RPMs. With cruise, you have to go to the speed, then set it (like a car).

But I DO agree with Big Mac, go for the paddlewheel. I only have PP Plus, and to upgrade to the next level, I have to buy a whole new module. If I had known that, I would have gone with Pro from the beginning (i went from cruise to Plus thinking later i could just add the paddlewheel, but the Plus Module does NOT have the plug for the paddlewheel).