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One thing that you need to keep in mind is that when you lift or level a truck you change the geometry of suspension components. There are lots of inexpensive ways to lift a truck but my opinion is it's a pay-me-now or pay-me-later scenario. When you pay more for a complete kit now (resized springs, new shocks and the components that return the suspension to the correct/factory geometry) you save yourself money down the road. If you don't correct the changes in geometry you will wear through suspension components that are out of spec and will end up paying more down the road. Like others have said, whether you go with a leveling kit or a lift you really need to add airbags in the rear or your truck will "squat" far too much when you put any weight in the bed or when towing. Our local tire shop, Les Schwab, installs a set of the Firestone airbags for $650-$700 total. I've run them with out any issue on 2 trucks now and would recommend them. Finally, you have to replace the stock shocks. Some people may disagree with me but here's why I say this: A shock is basically just a piston moving up and down in a cylinder. It has a full range of travel but is designed to provide the best dampening and ride quality within a certain range. When you lift a truck you extend the shock and the piston is now riding in a different range than it was intended. Also, the stock shocks were designed to dampen the ride of your truck with a stock tire size/weight. When you increase the size of your tires you also increase the weight of the tires and your stock shocks simply can not provide the same quality of dampening. Suspension can be tricky because there are so many "all show no go" kits out there that let you get the look you're after but lack the functionality and safety of the stock setup. Suspension is an incredibly important part of the drive-ability and safety of your rig. It is not a place I would go with the least expensive option.

What running condition causes the most power-train stress and highest torques to pass through the dampening plate and propeller shaft. Running WOT with a lightly loaded boat or Running a fully loaded boat surfing at 2500 RPM and at 2/3 throttle? Explain why

This all started with a discussion a friend of mine and me were having over the replacement of his dampening plate. He said that surfing at about 2/3 throttle with a heavy boat would compress the springs more than running it at WOT while barefooting. I disagreed with his concept due to the fact that the throttle was the limiting output feature and when in WOT mode, the limits were all balanced. While slightly above the maximum RPM to produce the highest torque, the maximum HP output is then balanced with all the friction, slip, and viscosity lossed. So after more boring winter waste of time thoughts, I have now re-thought the scenario with these conclusions: maximum dampening plate stress occurs when the engine is in WOT and the loaded to the point the RPMs drop the the maximum torque level. While max HP will still be at the max RPM in WOT. The plate sees the biggest torque stress (assuming it is aligned properly ) under the max torque RPM while under WOT.

From my understanding this statement is correct. This was an issue with all brands that have an indmar engine. Friend's MasterCraft just blew the dampening plate and he upgraded bell housing as well, even though it was not damaged.

I got the pressure sensor today that I was wanting to try out. It seems to be VERY sensitive as predicted. You can tell these are industrial grade top of the line sensors. I wired up the sensor into a current to voltage converter and dropped the sensor into a sport water bottle which was only 8" deep of water and it created good results. You could move the sensor up and down in the water and the ever slightest movement increased or lowered the voltage which provides very high resolution. 0 volts at the bottom every time and like 1.3 Volts at 8"(the voltage scale is fully adjustable with the converter I have). I will set the voltage scale from 0V empty to 5V full. I didn't have time to rig up something 20"+ deep like a ballast bag yet, but I may at some point and try to put a ruler on it and check for repeatability/accuracy and also set my 0V-5V scale closer. The sensitivity of the pressure sensor is so good, it will probably be best to write the Arduino program to show the bag level in like 10% increments or something to dampen the effects of waves on the lake and the non-rigid aspect of the bag allowing water to move slightly upon fill. I will just have to test that once out on the water come spring time and see how much boat movement while floating effects readings and how much dampening/filtering is needed to keep it from displaying RAPIDLY changing numbers. This is the sensor. Very heavy unit. It has a plastic screw-on cap at the bottom with holes to protect the pressure sensor. This is the end of the sensor with the cap removed. This is the end of the cable coming out of the sensor. Two wires and a tiny vent tube exit the cable. I haven't had a chance to determine if water is ever in that tube, but I wouldn't think so. I would imagine it is all sealed and the vent is just used to allow the internals of the pressure sensor to move when the water pressure pushes on it. If I am wrong on that and water does actually go in the vent tube, the cable will be coiled with a couple extra feet of length and end almost at the top under the gunnels so I think you would have to sink your boat to ever get water out of it. So what I think I am going for is a circuit board box containing the Arduino and 2 current to voltage converters mounted in the same box hidden somewhere under the right side of the boat. Out of this box will be a connector that allows a 3 wire cable to run to the rear. Two sensor wires(1 to each pressure transducer) and one 12V wire split to each transducer. A power(fused) and ground wire out of the circuit board box to 12V power and ground bus under dash. A wire/cable to a box containing a LCD inside the plastic box to the right of the driver for display. Should all be very clean. The red is the rear of the boat. 3 wires go back there. The grey area would be inside a circuit board box. Blue/Purple would be the LCD inside the side compartment. I did not spend time drawing up the LCD wires yet since I am still thinking on that one. My next step is to figure out exactly how I want to do a LCD and mount it cleanly in a box that looks good.

From my perspective, the big 3 all ski very similar. I do prefer the wake behind the 200, but I'm splitting hairs, because it is such a marginal difference where I mainly ski (28-35' off). Now I will say that the 18' TXI that I have skied a few times does have a 28' bump that is harder than the others. It's not as bad as the normal 22' bump, but it is the only boat where I actually really "feel" the 28' bump. It does pull like a freight train, and I find it less forgiving then others. What I really don't like about the newer TXI's is that they resonate so bad inside. They are LOUD, which may be partly a function of so much exposed fiberglass? The other brands also have a lot of exposed fiberglass too, but they do a much better job of dampening. When I say that it's loud, I'm not talking about exhaust noise. It is quiet from the end of the rope, but riding in it is noisy. The whole thing resonates when you take off, and since the motor box isn't latched down, you get some additional noise from under the doghouse. Another MAJOR gripe, is that both fuel fills catch the rope???? WTH?? How did that pass the engineering phase?? They stick up about 1/4-3/8". I do like the ski rack that is available now in the TXI. It is similar to the Prostar ski rack, but it doesn't clamp(which doesn't really matter). I have not skied the new SN, but I am blown away by how well thought out it is, especially from the driver's seat.

I purchased a 2009 Malibu 23 LSV Wakesetter in May from a friend with only 80 hours on it. The only issues with the boat, and its immaculate, are the Gel Coat, Stereo (posted in stereo thread) and the ballast pumps (posted in ballast thread). The boat is awesome but before the end of the summer I need to restore this gel coat. Looking for help and tips as I have researched a ton and feel like I am spending way to much time or quality time and need some reassurance. Here we go... So I purchased the following from Performance Boat Candy ( http://www.performanceboatcandy.com): 1.) Performance Boat Candy™ Crystal Cut Extreme Compound (http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/shop/Boat-Care-Products/Crystal-Cut-Extreme-Compound.html) 2.) Performance Boat Candy - Crystal Cut Polish (http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/shop/Boat-Care-Products/Crystal-Cut-Polish.html) 3.) Performance Boat Candy - Crystal Gloss (http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/shop/Boat-Care-Products/Crystal-Gloss.html) 4.) Performance Boat Candy - Speed Gloss (http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/shop/Boat-Care-Products/Speed-Gloss.html) Buffing pads from Amazon: TCP Global Ultimate 6 Pad Buffing and Polishing Kit with 6-8" Pads; 5 Waffle Foam & 1 Wool Grip Pads and a 5/8" Threaded Polisher Grip Backing Plate (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040HA9Y6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) I own a Porter Cable Dual-Action Polsher/Buffer (http://www.performanceboatcandy.com/shop/Polishers-and-Pads/Porter-Cable-Dual-Action-Polsher-Buffer.html) and a Harbor Freight 7 in. 10 Amp Heavy Duty Digital Variable Speed Polisher (https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/polishers/7-in-10-amp-heavy-duty-digital-variable-speed-polisher-62297.html) I started with a damp (spray bottle dampening) wool pad and the Crystal Cut Extreme Compound from PBC using my porter cable. It did very little and no red color on the wool pad. I next moved up to the Harbor Freight polisher at 1000rpm. Still no color on the wool pad and it didn't do anything to the gel coat. I then upped the speed a bit to 1500 and then 2000 only to see very little color on the wool pad and an hour and a half gone in my 2 foot by 2 foot section. Next I picked up some muriatic acid and diluted it and sprayed a small area. hosed it off after 3 min and nothing happened. Used an undiluted amount and again left it for a a couple minutes with no change. Moved on to the hard labor. Next I went to the home depot and picked up a carton of 600 grit and 800 grit wet sand paper. I masked off a two foot by two foot section and started to go at it by hand. Lots of color flowing off (looked like I went nuts with red paint) and finally it started to match the upper color and sheen on the boat. I then used my Porter Cable Dual Action with a brown foam pad and the extreme cut to shine it up even more, followed by the blue pad and the cut polish, and then again with the gloss. It took a long time to get through the 2x2 area. Pics below. No swirl marks and it looks good. I will remove the metal Malibu logo and tape off some of the metal parts, etc. Getting in between the decal will be interesting. So I am asking all of you from a newbie to this gel coat restore what am i doing right or wrong and how can I improve?

I have driven all three brands of Duallies and 3/4 tons in last 20 years. And all are good trucks. Have their up sides and downsides. Just know before buying a dually that there is a lot to consider. Duallies are a harsher ride. Especially the newer ford. It really needs more rebound dampening from the shocks on the rear. You can add weight to Gm or dodge and it helps tremendously but the Ford still moves too fast up over every square edge bump. I have 3 friends with the 2017 fords f350’s and a few friends with 250’s. And 250’s ride and drive wayyyyy better, and also on Duallies You are limited to tire and wheel selections unless adding wheel spacers, then to properly rotate tires you are dismounting and balancing to move tires. And banks and atm drive throughs become real tight squeezes. All parking becomes really tight. But if towing more than 17k it is the safest route.

Thank you for the advice. I have done the majority of the preventive maintenance (oil,plugs,impeller,rotor,distrib,plug wires) I read on here with the exception of changing the fluids for the v-drive and transmission. I will do that before I test it out. I also read on here some of the boats of this age had dampening plate issues. I only have 250hrs but it seems it can it happen even at lower hours from what I have read.

Not necessarily more durable. It depends on how the board is built. Lots of bamboo boards out there these days that are just built like crap, so it is not an absolute. A well built board that has a decent core and the bamboo veneer is sandwiched between layers of fiberglass and vacuumed bag to the core will on average hold up very well. There are trade off with all materials. People think Carbon Fiber is strong, the fact is carbon fiber is very brittle. Carbon fiber adds considerable stiffening elements to structures without as much weight typically found in other materials. Wrapping a board in carbon fiber doesn't make it bullet proof. Bamboo fibers are long and far more uniform than most wood products which makes them a great choice for surfboard, they also have good dampening abilities which can take the chatter out of rough water. The simple answer is it is not necessarily more durable than a clear/white fiberglass wrapped board, but it can be, and if having the clean, natural aesthetics of wood is desired, then it is one of the best if not the best choice. Nick

I would have to say to give king shocks a call on yours. The rear on the fords are way stiff. And most of it comes from the lack of rebound damepening in the shocks. Most off the shelf shocks don't have enough rebound dampening to slow it down. That's why it feels like it's Gona throw you through the windshield when you go over a rough railroad crossing. King shocks are pricey but you get what you pay for.

You'd figure with the hauling capacity of these trucks they would work on making a better progressive spring and dampening system. I know they try to do with the magnetic ride on the dampening side. And I think you'd be able to do it with the springs passively vs. actively with air bags and such. I want to smooth my Tundra a bit, and it isn't near what the HD trucks are for capacity. I'm finding shocks are a big help and some have gone the lesser spring with bag back-up route. That is too involved for all the more complaint I have. But I will most likely change the shocks out soon.

In doing some research the factory HU has bass dampening at higher volumes, which would probably mean other things are getting adjusted as well. It looks like the FiX-86 would compensate as well as be the line converter that would be required. I could come out of that into a speaker amp and a sub amp with level control. The amp will be a challenge to locate, but that is another story. Thanks for taking the time, greatly appreciate the information.

I had an FAE on my 2015 22VLX with 409, I really liked it. I thought is substantially made the boat quieter and also helped with fumes. I allso have a surf pipe on my 2017 LSV. Personally, I would not order a boat without a surf pipe. One misconception about the surf pipe is that it will quiet down the cabin area, not really designed to do this. Surf pipe is primarily designed to help eliminate noise behind the boat while surfing and wakeboarding while also pushing exhaust fumes down into the water. If you are looking to quiet down the cabin area that would involve installing noise dampening insulation/panels inside the engine compartment.

Yes. Of course very subjective and not my personal view as I haven't had a chance to drive one. You have to always weigh the pre-conceived winner scenario playing into the butt dyno equation. You would think with the ability to have variable dampening with the coil springs that the ride would be pretty decent.

hydrophonic dampening system on dd's.

@Woodski, that would be cool to experience. I'm envious. I'm also terrified of Li+ vehicle batteries (wait till one of them big boys vents and goes exothermic/ignites in your faces before you argue with me). That aside it's just engineering and it's the future. No argument. Major vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of time on the sound of their vehicles. Squashing what's annoying for what they can budget on that model versus the sound they want. It's as important to them as their name and logo and stock price. What's fascinating to me is the electric vehicle market is intentionally adding sound to their vehicles. Very specific market researched sounds. Resonators on the cabin walls. Speakers external to the cabin. To some extent they need to do that for pedestrians to hear the sneaky things rolling up on them. But inside the cabin they do it to appeal to our built in sense of "wow" based on sound. Interestingly it's old tech they are borrowing from budget sport sedans that do it to make the passengers hear a better exhaust and engine note than is really being produced by whatever is really in the drive-train (uber-sneaky). Heh, it's like aural beer goggles while sober. Once I had this fascinating conversation with a very high-end RC truck manufacturer about how their "toys" needed to sound like the real thing to keep their credibility once they went electric. The E-Drive motors were kind of demasculting they learned! When they took that toy petroleum engine sound (which was definitely loud) and transformed it into a realistic reflection of an all-terrain truck there were cries of joy. Go figure, but it's not surprising if you reflect on it. We live in a world defined by sight and sound. You make a great point though. What could be done with isolated engine mounts? Stiffening structures to boost the hull resonant frequency beyond what the propeller or exhaust is causing? A little extra dampening materials in the engine boxes? Tuned exhaust.... Constrained dampeners integrated into fiberglass layup? Aerodynamic deflection from the hull and glass? These boats seem to have a sufficient enough market to keep raising prices. That is a bit of a bummer, but it's the facts. That means that there is going to be a race on multiple fronts to justify cost increases. In the electronics arena they're borrowing 5-7 year old now-off-the-shelf (and obsolete) technology and productising it for lower than automotive sales volumes. Engines are a world I just don't know much about. I'm an EE. However, history has set up it's own law of increases that have shown a trend to LOUDER, BIGGER, more CLEVER ballasts/engines and hulls. It's amazing and welcomed! Crazy welcomed! The marine specific stuff is really booming it seems with crossover hulls, surf enhancements, and an adoption of computer modeling on a very competent level. However, a convergence is coming eventually where there isn't much more to be gained from standing on the shoulders of others. To continue to drive profits the biggest marine manufacturers are going to crave cross-discipline engineering R&D results . For instance, "here's a magnificent hydrodynamic hull. Here's a perfect engine for the towboat world. Here's where we found places to make them merge flawlessly (e.g. sound). Now we can make your MP3s be glorious." It will help to further define a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 I'd think. It's gotten a tiny it muddy lately where the lines are and why between brands. I bet we see similar things for steering, maintenance, cloud accessibility (the internet kind, not meteorology), dynamic ballast management, and whatever else comes up.... (retracting wakesurf ping-pong tables anyone?). Tomorrow is Monday and I have to put a 5 year old to bed. Wish me luck. End-of-line

Coming from a 20’ outboard and looking to get my first “real” inboard boat for water sports so I’ve got some questions as this is all new to me! I open water slalom recreationally – no course so I’m guessing that I’d be plenty happy with the VTX ski wake out of the diamond hull (13-15’ years before they changed in ‘16) and blown away with the new Response wake (or lack there-of). With the family and friends we would envision using the boat for the following in order of priority to open water slalom, tube, beginner wake board, and try surfing. Plus – just cruise around and chill on our small lake. Really like the V-drive arrangement for seating and storage. Biggest concern of going V-drive would be the wake being too big for kids that are learning to ski and or some women who may not slalom at 32mph might find the wake intimidating. Most wives ski in the mid to upper 20’s and the kiddo will be in the teens mph wise learning skiing and boarding. Biggest concerns of the DD are the lack of storage / seating arrangements layout and the possibility the boat being a lot noisier with the engine right in the middle. However the new ’17 Response with the larger bow might have solved the seating…. Everyone always talks about the “wake”, but they all reference the sweet wakes of these boats at competitive levels like 32+ mph and big line off’s. How are these wakes different at the novice & intermediate level for skiing from 'real life' average Joe users? Is the DD wake still big in the upper teens to upper 20’s for skiing or noticeable smaller than a v-drive VTX? Is the DD really much louder or are today’s engines and box sound dampening much better? Any insight you folks would have would be much appreciated and helpful in making this call. Thanks!

Also-if you are Redoing the vinyl, do the uninstall-reinstall of all the seats, sides, and motorbox yourself. That will save about $1000. also, while the motorbox is off I suggest putting in noise dampening material inside. There is a great article in the "how to" section its one of the best mods and really easy.

U notice the egg carton packing material sound dampening material in the engine compartment?

Hydrophonic Dampening System.

Just a little update on this old thread, I repeated the process in my new Tundra Crewmax but it only took me a weekend this time even with installing some sound dampening to the back wall and doors. I removed all the stuff before I traded in my truck and was able to use everything except for the sub and box from my '10 Crewmax. The '10 had the rear seats that slid forward so a bigger box can fit. That is definitely not the case for the newer Tundras. My new sub box is really slim with dual ID10's. It sounds really good. Tacotunes has been great to work with and has been extremely helpful with both of the installs I did!

Carpet helps with noise and vibration dampening IMO. Seadek could be easily added to any model as they all have snap out carpet anyway. As for waves, it's been a while since I was on a Supra but you will have turn key great waves. Can you make even better, yes, but the wedge, PNP, and SG on the boats you're talking about make better waves than the industry had ever seen 3 years ago (with the slight exception of maybe an fs44). If you just have 3 small kids, I have to ask, why looking at such big boats? Big water? With your crew I'd go VLX. I have a VTX with 3 kids and friends and even I don't lack for room. You'll like whatever you get though, I'm sure.

Hmmm, I think the gauge only reads in 1/8 increments converted to percentages (100, 88, 75, 63, 50, 38, 25, 13, 0; numbers are rounded to the nearest whole number) because that's all the reed switches that are on the sensor unit; at least that's the way it was in the '15 when I talked to the guys in support and they showed me the actual sensor assembly that is used. Malibu also asked, or Medallion put in, a "dampening factor" to try to average out the sloshing of fuel in the tank. I recently read that a marine fuel tank needs to have ~10% "extra" capacity for air to allow for fuel expansion (I don't remember the technical term). To me, it sounds like the bottom reed switch on your fuel tank sensor is bad, or something is keeping the donut shaped float from going all the way to the bottom of the tank. I doubt you want to do it, but is not too difficult to get to the fuel tank in a 23 LSV; you have to pull the main floor (8-10 screws) but then it's all right there in front of you. Now messing around with a gas tank is a whole different debacle... I'd ask your dealer to inspect the inside of the fuel tank and possibly swap the fuel level reed switch assembly. I agree that marine fuel gauges aren't very accurate, but the reed switch assemblies are a lot better than the old toilet bowl float style gauges. What we really need are some anti-sloshing baffles inside the tank.

likely wont do both as that would double the cost. but if i can get similar sound dampening out of just the FAE for 100 bucks more AND the added benefit of lower CO2 when surfing i think its a no brainer. Just waiting on andrew to clarify. I've re read his post a couple times and he flat out recommended to just go with the FAE and straight pipes so thats likely what i'll do.