Updated: Survey and Sea Trial of that 2002 Sunscape in Holland MI...

[SkipGundlach]

Greetings, all,

So, I'm in Holland MI, and have surveyed and sea trialed the Sunscape mentioned in these pages previously. (https://www.coralgablesyachts.com/boats-for-sale/2002-malibu-sunscape-21-lsv-holland-michigan-8967585/)

It was pretty much as I expected, with a couple of surprises; the first was the virtual silence of the motor starting and running. That's the good news.  Along with that, based on the pictures in the ad, the interior was in fantastic shape, with only some incipient stitching failures at the various cushions ' welting as typical of older boats, but no actual failures yet.  It came with an unadvertised Skylon as well as both ski and wakeboard lines (but no toys) and the requisite brick full of horsecollar lifejackets.

That was the good news/surprising pleasures.

The not-so-good was limited to a couple of things, one potentially gnarly:

The next was the rectangular hole in the starboard rear of the trailer frame which, I discovered, was the previous location of the bracket for the guide arm.  That same arm (without the bracket attached to it) was in the port aft locker.  The bracket and arm which had been ripped off was lying on the stern cockpit deck... The frame didn't  appear distorted, and so I'm trustful that a skillful welder can reattach that, pretty up the weld, and match the black paint which is in generally fantastic condition.

Finally,  however, and I'd love it if one of you had experienced and conquered the same issue, the Velvet Drive transmission dipstick had the screw-down part broken off and secured in the dipstick hole, leaving a small collar at the cap-end.  It may be that the screw-plug will yield to a gentle encouragement with a drift and a careful extraction, with a (hoped for) replacement easily sourced. It appears to be a dissimilar metals problem visually, with what I presume the solid screw-in having corroded to the aluminum.  It was last fluid-replaced (with no 'younger' service records indicating any later attention given to the transmission) in 2021.

On the way to the sea trial, it was noted that the left trailer tail light seemed inoperative (no blink or brake).  Maybe a dead bulb, maybe a wiring issue; the starboard worked just fine.  Small beans.

So, overall, I'm encouraged, but worried that resolution of the dipstick might generate trash into the works, which would definitely not be a good thing.

Unfortunately I'm on my laptop which doesn't seem to know how to talk to my phone, whether by bluetooth or USB, so I can't easily share, having lost my tutorial on how to fake-a-url (the boat doesn't have a fake-a-lake, but I believe I'll get one), or I'd put a couple of pix here of that dipstick issue...

I sported my TheMallibuCrew shirt for the survey and sea trial, have acquired my 2014 Jeep Cherokee with factory ClassIII tow package, and will have moved to the lake by this time next month!

L8R

Skip, nervous but xcited

Edited May 2 by SkipGundlach
clarification

[Steve B.]

This looks like a steal. You did buy it? I can't believe the price.

Steve B.

[SkipGundlach]

7 minutes ago, Steve B. said:

This looks like a steal. You did buy it? I can't believe the price.

Steve B.

Yes and no.

My son put a 10% deposit  on it subject to survey and sea trial.  You've seen the results.

I've reminded the broker that these are not deal breakers but resolution by folks who've worked for years on this boat will likely be easier and better than that found in NE GA where there's precious little of this sort of water...

We expect to complete the sale; I left my flamethrower flashlight  and mirror (the better to see into odd spaces) in the chart compartment over the cubby.  Broker is  a personal friend of the seller else it wouldn't be here at all, since they normally deal in one or more orders of magnitude bigger boat (and money) than this.  Thank you, Lord

Somehow the 'drag or choose files' wasn't available in my original, so here's  the pix:

[Steve B.]

Good photo's. Agree on your points. From what I see, that trailer absolutely needs addressed immediately, but looks easy. The tranny also looks easily fixable. 

[JeffK]

13 hours ago, SkipGundlach said:

the Velvet Drive transmission dipstick had the screw-down part broken off and secured in the dipstick hole

I can't recall for sure, but I believe the bolts on the top of the drive will allow that cover to come off. The paint will hold it in place stubbornly, but I think it comes off. I'm sure there is a parts diagram online somewhere. I would pull that cover and see about working it out from the back side without tearing anything up. Then all you'd need is the replacement gasket.

[SkipGundlach]

12 minutes ago, JeffK said:

I can't recall for sure, but I believe the bolts on the top of the drive will allow that cover to come off. The paint will hold it in place stubbornly, but I think it comes off. I'm sure there is a parts diagram online somewhere. I would pull that cover and see about working it out from the back side without tearing anything up. Then all you'd need is the replacement gasket.

My apologies for confusion and duplication...

 

Can mods combine what I  expect are now two threads on the same subject?

I believe I created a new topic (same exact scenario) with properly spaced photos and slightly different text) which would be clearer than this thread.

But to the respondents,  thanks so much for the input.  I've asked the broker to see if the service guys can address the dipstick, and if a local talented body shop or welder could remedy the trailer deficiencies.

At this price and condition I expect to pay for those alterations; I don't want the seller/s to have ANY reason to kick out our offer!

Pics in the revised post included my tow vehicle and showing off "The Malibu Crew" shirt I now sport and proudly wear 

L8R

Skip, with hopes for a combined thread with the other beginning...

13 hours ago, SkipGundlach said:

Greetings, all,

So, I'm in Holland MI, and have surveyed and sea trialed the Sunscape mentioned in these pages previously. (https://www.coralgablesyachts.com/boats-for-sale/2002-malibu-sunscape-21-lsv-holland-michigan-8967585/)

It was pretty much as I expected, with a couple of surprises; the first was the virtual silence of the motor starting and running. That's the good news.  Along with that, based on the pictures in the ad, the interior was in fantastic shape, with only some incipient stitching failures at the various cushions ' welting as typical of older boats, but no actual failures yet.  It came with an unadvertised Skylon as well as both ski and wakeboard lines (but no toys) and the requisite brick full of horsecollar lifejackets.

That was the good news/surprising pleasures.

The not-so-good was limited to a couple of things, one potentially gnarly:

The next was the rectangular hole in the starboard rear of the trailer frame which, I discovered, was the previous location of the bracket for the guide arm.  That same arm (without the bracket attached to it) was in the port aft locker.  The bracket and arm which had been ripped off was lying on the stern cockpit deck... The frame didn't  appear distorted, and so I'm trustful that a skillful welder can reattach that, pretty up the weld, and match the black paint which is in generally fantastic condition.

Finally,  however, and I'd love it if one of you had experienced and conquered the same issue, the Velvet Drive transmission dipstick had the screw-down part broken off and secured in the dipstick hole, leaving a small collar at the cap-end.  It may be that the screw-plug will yield to a gentle encouragement with a drift and a careful extraction, with a (hoped for) replacement easily sourced. It appears to be a dissimilar metals problem visually, with what I presume the solid screw-in having corroded to the aluminum.  It was last fluid-replaced (with no 'younger' service records indicating any later attention given to the transmission) in 2021.

On the way to the sea trial, it was noted that the left trailer tail light seemed inoperative (no blink or brake).  Maybe a dead bulb, maybe a wiring issue; the starboard worked just fine.  Small beans.

So, overall, I'm encouraged, but worried that resolution of the dipstick might generate trash into the works, which would definitely not be a good thing.

Unfortunately I'm on my laptop which doesn't seem to know how to talk to my phone, whether by bluetooth or USB, so I can't easily share, having lost my tutorial on how to fake-a-url (the boat doesn't have a fake-a-lake, but I believe I'll get one), or I'd put a couple of pix here of that dipstick issue...

I sported my TheMallibuCrew shirt for the survey and sea trial, have acquired my 2014 Jeep Cherokee with factory ClassIII tow package, and will have moved to the lake by this time next month!

L8R

Skip, nervous but xcited

13 hours ago, Steve B. said:

This looks like a steal. You did buy it? I can't believe the price.

Steve B.

Yes and no.

My son put a 10% deposit  on it subject to survey and sea trial.  You've seen the results.

I've reminded the broker that these are not deal breakers but resolution by folks who've worked for years on this boat will likely be easier and better than that found in NE GA where there's precious little of this sort of water...

We expect to complete the sale; I left my flamethrower flashlight  and mirror (the better to see into odd spaces) in the chart compartment over the cubby.  Broker is  a personal friend of the seller else it wouldn't be here at all, since they normally deal in one or more orders of magnitude bigger boat (and money) than this.  Thank you, Lord

Somehow the 'drag or choose files' wasn't available in my original, so here's  the pix:

[oldjeep]

Main thing that I would look at is the center of the axle tube on the trailer.  If it is the same as the 2004 trailers then there were issues with the drain holes plugging up and the axle rotting in half

 

[SkipGundlach]

3 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Main thing that I would look at is the center of the axle tube on the trailer.  If it is the same as the 2004 trailers then there were issues with the drain holes plugging up and the axle rotting in half

 

Thank you for that heads up. 

Is the Eagle a Malibu provided trailer? 

It is a single axle with surge brakes ...

The fenders aside, it looks to be in great condition...

 

[UWSkier]

11 minutes ago, SkipGundlach said:

Thank you for that heads up. 

Is the Eagle a Malibu provided trailer? 

It is a single axle with surge brakes ...

The fenders aside, it looks to be in great condition...

 

My dad has that exact same trailer under a 2021 Sunsetter VLX.  Even the exact same color scheme as that 2002.

One thing I noticed from the photos is there's a PerfectPass servo motor attached to the engine, but there's no PerfectPass display.  Wonder if they yanked that out or it failed.

Amazing price on that boat if everything is working.

[oldjeep]

25 minutes ago, SkipGundlach said:

Thank you for that heads up. 

Is the Eagle a Malibu provided trailer? 

It is a single axle with surge brakes ...

The fenders aside, it looks to be in great condition...

 

The one my inlaws had was a Boatmate - not an eagle.  But good spot to look anyways

[SkipGundlach]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

My dad has that exact same trailer under a 2021 Sunsetter VLX.  Even the exact same color scheme as that 2002.

One thing I noticed from the photos is there's a PerfectPass servo motor attached to the engine, but there's no PerfectPass display.  Wonder if they yanked that out or it failed.

Amazing price on that boat if everything is working.

It is there, but my sea trial did not prove it working. I have no reason to believe it does not...  It's not particularly important to my use, so I didn't test it, but I expected will work based on the conditions of the boat in general.

It's located forward of the radio panel and to the right of the dashboard.

 

I thought initially that the radio face panel was missing, but in reviewing my pictures I found that it was actually in the chart compartment, so that, too I expect will also work so it was not tested. (It came complete with several cds, including a Jimmy buffett, which is appropriate for boating!. )

 

[UWSkier]

1 hour ago, SkipGundlach said:

It is there, but my sea trial did not prove it working. I have no reason to believe it does not...  It's not particularly important to my use, so I didn't test it, but I expected will work based on the conditions of the boat in general.

It's located forward of the radio panel and to the right of the dashboard.

 

I thought initially that the radio face panel was missing, but in reviewing my pictures I found that it was actually in the chart compartment, so that, too I expect will also work so it was not tested. (It came complete with several cds, including a Jimmy buffett, which is appropriate for boating!. )

 

Oh, I see it.  It's PerfectPass Cruise.  Nice.

That boat with a little elbow grease and a welder for the trailer could be a real gem.

 

[SkipGundlach]

Update:

The tranny dipstick is not a screw-in but a taper-plug/O-ring, which, with a gentle pull, came out.  Expectation by broker (who did that) is that JB Weld would put it right - or another to replace it - and that likely it's been that way for years.
I'm inclined toward replacement.  Anyone have an idea of where to find a VelvetDrive dipstick replacement?

The trailer repairs will be easier done with the boat off it, in any case, so he's also going to fix (free) the non-illuminating (dunno why) left turn/brake light, and bend up the fender a bit further to provide more relief from possible interaction with the tire when it gets pulled to GA, where we can get a local trailer outfit to fix the fenders and ripped-off starboard alignment pole receiver.

I can't wait to do a blind squirrel job on the engine compartment and remainder of the bilge, as well as a carpet-cleaner scrub of the under-seat bins!  It's going to get a compound/polish job and SS bright exterior finish, and the Admiral will love hitting the interior with the various emollients and attention needed to make it shine like a new penny.

The under-seat cushion vent holes are largely without their covers. Anybody have a source for replacement vent plugs?  

L8R

Skip and crew

Edited May 1 by SkipGundlach

[John I.]

Here's one source for the seat cushion vents.

[SkipGundlach]

26 minutes ago, John I. said:

Here's one source for the seat cushion vents.

Thanks!
As it's an electrical trade product, I wonder if the local electrical supply house would have them.  Shipping has to be orders of magnitude more than the cost of the plugs, even if it was a dozen or more that I needed...

But:
https://www.amazon.com/Piutouyar-Stainless-Circular-Bathroom-Wardrobe/dp/B09B1SY47X
https://www.amazon.com/Circular-Stainless-Kitchen-Bathroom-Cupboards/dp/B087PZDBW8
at 20/7 or 8 bux, in black stainless steel work, too.

But at a nominal 17 cents, if the local electrical supply had them or similar, I could get the exact number I needed (not that it's a big deal, and I get free shipping on Prime) rather than maybe come up 1-2 short, an annoyance ☺

Edited May 1 by SkipGundlach

[butter71]

2 hours ago, SkipGundlach said:

Anyone have an idea of where to find a VelvetDrive dipstick replacement?

A little spendy for a dipstick, but here's an option at Bake's...  https://www.bakesonline.com/walters-v-drive-oil-dipstick.html. 

You could also try contacting Walter (company) directly.  See contact info at http://www.waltergear.com/

BTW, looks like you're looking for a dipstick for a Walter V-drive, not a "VelvetDrive".  (Velvet Drive is a common marine transmission, but probably not what's in your boat. You likely have a ZF-Hurth transmission coupled with with a Walter V-drive.  There is a dipstick on each one, but from your images looks like the one on the Walters V-drive is the issue).

Best of luck!

[SkipGundlach]

As we round third heading to home, getting the boat shiny again was a target.  It spent its summer months in a boat rack outside, and the exterior shows the effects of the sun, as seen in a few snaps.

If you've ever had someone compound and wax the fiberglass and stainless on your boat in the same sort of condition, would you mind sharing what you paid for that privilege (recall ours is a 21' Sunscape)?

My apologies; my computer has lost its mind; just look at the colored fiberglass and ignore that it's inverted, please...

Thanks!

[SkipGundlach]

7 minutes ago, butter71 said:

A little spendy for a dipstick, but here's an option at Bake's...  https://www.bakesonline.com/walters-v-drive-oil-dipstick.html. 

You could also try contacting Walter (company) directly.  See contact info at http://www.waltergear.com/

BTW, looks like you're looking for a dipstick for a Walter V-drive, not a "VelvetDrive".  (Velvet Drive is a common marine transmission, but probably not what's in your boat. You likely have a ZF-Hurth transmission coupled with with a Walter V-drive.  There is a dipstick on each one, but from your images looks like the one on the Walters V-drive is the issue).

Best of luck!

Yup, I believe you're correct; this one has 6 bolts, but the depth of paint/enamel looks right as does the knob, particularly the top of it, where I believe I see "Walter" on it.

At that price, I think a try with JBWeld is in order before coughing up for the (admittedly correct and new) dipstick...

Thanks for the research.  THIS (and the preceding) is why I'm a Chief ☺ - I KNEW y'all would have my solutions.

Thanks to all who've been helping.

[SkipGundlach]

With many apologies, but the editing function disappeared on my original post, and there are some significant things to report.  There were several comments to the original, all of which can be seen, linked below, but this is cleaned up and current following my trip.  If you want to see the original comment streams, click the pic:

So, starting over:

Greetings, all,

So, I went to Holland MI, and have surveyed and sea trialed the Sunscape mentioned in these pages previously. (https://www.coralgablesyachts.com/boats-for-sale/2002-malibu-sunscape-21-lsv-holland-michigan-8967585/)

It was pretty much as I expected, with a couple of surprises; the first was the virtual silence of the motor starting and running. That's among the good news.  Along with that, based on the pictures in the ad, the interior was in fantastic shape, with only some incipient stitching failures at the various cushions' welting as typical of older boats, but no actual failures yet. 

 

It came with an unadvertised Skylon as well as both ski and wakeboard lines (but no toys) and the requisite brick full of horsecollar lifejackets.  

Another unadvertised, very nice, surprise was the also-installed Perfect Pass, seen just in front of the shifter.  

Another welcome feature, given that it will be me at the helm most of the time, was that even with my very long legs, my feet - with the seat fully forward - fit perfectly to the ramp at the front of the driver's compartment.  Tilt wheel and bolster, along with a long, perfect-condition slide, made sitting high easy as well.

And the sea trial was also pretty much as expected.  Gentle rolling acceleration (like getting a new tow up for the first time) was smooth and silent.  A hot start, as I used to do (throttle all the way, ease at ski speed) fully impressed the broker, and pleased me, as it exceeded the up-and-flat performance of my much smaller and lighter, Cleveland 351-powered, venerable Ski Supreme.  On the other hand, on my hard-turns tests, what with a nearly-empty fuel tank, while the port turn was as expected, the starboard turn threw what little fuel there was away from the pickup tube, and we stalled out.  In blustery cool winds, we drifted east, but got her restarted and back on the trailer without excitement other than having to back off and fiddle a bit due to the alignment poles being, respectively, stowed and broken off (on which more below).

That was the good news/surprising pleasures.

The not-so-good was limited to a couple of things, one which initially appeared potentially gnarly:

The first is the rectangular hole in the starboard rear of the trailer frame which, I discovered, was the previous location of the bracket for the guide arm.  That same arm (without the bracket attached to it) was in the port aft locker (the black tube between the Skylon poles).  The bracket and arm which had been ripped off was lying on the stern cockpit sole... The frame didn't  appear distorted, and so I'm trustful that a skillful welder can reattach that, pretty up the weld, and match the purple, hull-matching, paint which is in generally fantastic condition.

As well, perhaps related, there had been some misadventure to the starboard fender, causing an incipient rear-step weld failure, as well as a potential tire hazard intrusion of material into the wheel well:

The broker is going to further depress the fender edge to minimize the potential for its involvement with the tire on the trip south.  The port fender/step has similar, though very much less distressed, issues.  We'll get the boat in the water and then deal with resolving those fairly-straightforward repairs at a body shop or trailer specialist.  I'm expecting this to be trivial to folks in that/those businesses.  Once again, tiny, perhaps inconsequential, stuff, but with everything else being amazingly bristol (a sailing term meaning pretty and shipshape, if you'd not heard it before), something worth doing given the bargain achieved in this purchase.

Finally, however, and I quickly received guidance from the group, in the original thread regarding solutions, the Velvet Drive transmission dipstick had the thought-to-be-screw-down part broken off and secured in the dipstick hole, leaving a small collar at the cap-end.  I had first feared that it was a screw-in plug which would require a drift and a careful extraction, with a (hoped for) replacement easily sourced. It initially appeared to be a dissimilar metals problem visually, with what I presumed to be the solid screw-in having corroded to the aluminum.  It was last fluid-replaced (with no 'younger' service records indicating any later attention given to the transmission) in 2021.

The good news is that the hive mind knew better.  First, it's a Walter V-Drive, and they're still very much in business.  Best, it isn't a screw-in, but merely an O-ring-secured straight shaft, which, in the earlier thread, a kind soul pointed me to (albeit rather expensive, partly due to shipping, I expect) replacements; our broker (Brandon Ricci, Coral Gables Yachts, Holland MI) was adventurous enough to gently give it a tug, and it popped right out.

The dipstick top actually looks like this pic:

and it's entirely possible that a thorough cleanup and some judicious application of JBWeld will render the original sound again.  It's my suspicion, as the remainder came out without a fuss, that this broke years ago and was treated as trivial and not worth fixing.  I'm the kinda guy who'd fix or replace it, though ☺

So, overall, I'm thrilled that the dipstick will, even if expen$ive, be a trivial fix.

On the way to the sea trial, it was noted that the left trailer tail light seemed inoperative (no blink or brake).  Maybe a dead bulb, maybe a wiring issue; the starboard worked just fine.  Small beans. The broker agreed to get that fixed  before the shipper picked it up... in 4 days, two of which are weekend ... and on his nickel. Perhaps that's what the new housing seen in the Skylon pic was for, and the owners never got around to it ☺

The sale is complete, the compounding/buffing/waxing/polishing/cleanup-after is under way, and the shipper is picking her up (well, attaching the trailer to his hitch) and heading south this coming Monday.

I sported my TheMalibuCrew shirt for the survey and sea trial, have acquired my 2014 Jeep Cherokee with never-before-used factory ClassIII tow package, and will have moved to the lake by this time next month!

L8R

Skip and cohort ☺

[SkipGundlach]

Completed Survey report here:

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

@SkipGundlach I am not sure what you mean by the edit function went away, the thread is not locked or hidden. But to keep this somewhat organized I am going to merge your threads together.

[SkipGundlach]

47 minutes ago, ahopkins22LSV said:

@SkipGundlach I am not sure what you mean by the edit function went away, the thread is not locked or hidden. But to keep this somewhat organized I am going to merge your threads together.

Hi, and thanks for your efforts.

As the new post is the current info, and really would have been what I'd have edited into the start of the first thread, if you'd substitute my current one for the first of the original, I'll go back in and (presuming no issues on a new topic being edited) and delete reference to the earlier stuff.

I was in contact with Ronnie; he tried to tell me how to edit, but after a couple of edits on the original, that function went away, as I demonstrated with a screen shot (no 'save' button) to him.

Thanks  for your help.  But perhaps there's some software limitation on numbers of edits, as most certainly mine had that issue.

L8R

Skip