2017 23LSV tries to START by itself when powered on. HELP

[Roo]

Boat has the Raptor 410 I believe (Engine cover says 6.2 Monsoon, Valve covers say Powered by Ford).

The Boat is trying to start by itself the moment the POWER button is pushed, or the backup key is turned to ON.

 

Normal operation:

• Battery/Rotary switch turned on
• Push POWER Button, wait roughly 30 seconds for blower / screens to bootup
• Push START/STOP Button, prompts for passcode
• Push START/STOP Button, starter motor is engaged and boats starts

 

My problem:

• Battery/Rotary switch turned on
• Push POWER Button, starter motor immediately engages and tries to start the boat

 

Troubleshooting observations:

• Instead of using the POWER button, turning the backup key just to ON, causes the same behavior
• Disconnecting the START/STOP switch at the harness under the dash, no change in effect
• Pulling the Safety Lanyard (i.e. Safety Switch), the boat does NOT try to start immediately and allows time for the blower/screens to boot
• The second the Safety Lanyard is plugged back in, it tries to start itself

 

The boat did fire up a couple times in troubleshooting, but I killed the power almost immediately since it was NOT hooked up to a hose.

I thought about hooking it up to the garden hose, and let is fire up to see if the "Smart Start" actually engages and the starter disengages.

 

I pulled the Starter Relay, and did a continuity test across Pin 30 to 87 and got no tone, leading me to believe the Relay is fine (i.e. not stuck closed).

Pin 87A to 30 did get a tone, but from my understanding they are connected by default.

 

Thoughts? Help please

Very mechanically inclined but don't have a scanner and don't want to just throw parts at it.

And of course can't find a concrete wiring schematic diagram which blows my mind.

Dealer network keep them locked down?

I've looked here: https://www.bakesonline.com/bakes-resource-library

But didn't see schematics to my setup specifically (unless I am not looking for the correct thing?)

Trying to avoid the dealer if possible but boating season is here.

-Andrew

Edited April 17 by Roo

[amartin]

Very different boat but slightly different problem...  I was having a "Loss of CAN Signal" problem on my 2013.  As soon as I entered the code, the boat would start.  The only way to turn it off was the power button.  I eventually "fixed" the problem by cleaning, re-cleaning, and re-cleaning the engine harness connector on the CAN system.  The takeaway is that these electrical problems don't need to be "related" to cause the issues / symptoms.  I wish that I had better advice for you - good luck.

[csleaver]

Have any repairs or maintenance been done, or any accessories installed since the last time the boat operated normally?  A disconnect or improperly connected ground cable to the battery can cause very unusual electrical problems. 

When the start/stop button is pressed a ground signal is sent from the button to pin 14 (red/black wire) on the Viper2 controller.  The start request is then sent from the helm Viper2 controller to the engine ECM via the Controller Area Network (CAN).  There is a START/STOP data field that can be found on the Settings > System Diag screen on the small display.

A start request can also be sent from the emergency helm keyswitch by using system voltage from the switch all the way to the round engine harness adaptor plug pin 17/G (yellow/red wire) then to the engine ECM pin 86.

If the engine is not running during a start request, then the engine ECM sends a ground signal from pin 34 to energize the starter relay.  The relay sends system voltage to the small starter solenoid post to engage the solenoid and turn the starter for up to 11 seconds or until the engine is running.

[Bird]

Is it possible that the solenoid is sticking on?

[Roo]

On 4/17/2024 at 10:31 PM, csleaver said:

Have any repairs or maintenance been done, or any accessories installed since the last time the boat operated normally?  A disconnect or improperly connected ground cable to the battery can cause very unusual electrical problems. 

When the start/stop button is pressed a ground signal is sent from the button to pin 14 (red/black wire) on the Viper2 controller.  The start request is then sent from the helm Viper2 controller to the engine ECM via the Controller Area Network (CAN).  There is a START/STOP data field that can be found on the Settings > System Diag screen on the small display.

A start request can also be sent from the emergency helm keyswitch by using system voltage from the switch all the way to the round engine harness adaptor plug pin 17/G (yellow/red wire) then to the engine ECM pin 86.

If the engine is not running during a start request, then the engine ECM sends a ground signal from pin 34 to energize the starter relay.  The relay sends system voltage to the small starter solenoid post to engage the solenoid and turn the starter for up to 11 seconds or until the engine is running.

Thank you for your reply. Information you provided in another thread lead me down this path and I thank you for your knowledge.

 

Problem has been solved.

Water had worked its way into the triangular deutsch connector that connects the emergency / backup key switch to the rest of the harness. Water was causing a short.

So the moment either the key was put in the ON position (backup system), or the Power button was pushed (primary system), it was trying to immediately crank.

Put 120 PSI of air to clear things out, packed with die electric grease and good to go. Launched boat yesterday.

 

Admittingly, this problem I believe was self induced. I wash the inside of the boat every season, but this time around enough water had worked between the panel and the hull, and the connector was dangling in a perfect spot to catch any falling water.

I always avoid washing / spraying near the dash / screens themselves, but moving forward I'll stop a little further back

Being a deutsch connector, you'd think this wouldn't have happened... but it did. All well, lesson learned.

 

[Roo]

2 minutes ago, Bird said:

Is it possible that the solenoid is sticking on?

I tested it with the multi-meter and fortunately it was not.

It ended up being water in a connector to the emergency key causing a short.