Tommys vs Malibu

[Raimie]

Wondering if Malibu will send customers something via email to settle us down?

[dshack]

11 minutes ago, Raimie said:

Wondering if Malibu will send customers something via email to settle us down?

Yeah its an interesting strategy to go public with that press release yesterday. Looks like Tommys quietly filed their lawsuit the day before that, and Malibu decided to make it public.

[smuurph84]

does anyone have a link to the tommys lawsuit? or an article summarizing it would be better.  google doesnt seem to turn anything up.

[oldjeep]

12 minutes ago, dshack said:

Yeah its an interesting strategy to go public with that press release yesterday. Looks like Tommys quietly filed their lawsuit the day before that, and Malibu decided to make it public.

Not sure decided would be the right word.  They are a public company - kinda have to

[85 Barefoot]

8 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Not sure decided would be the right word.  They are a public company - kinda have to

Public companies decline comment on pending litigation all the time.  And that’s in response in questions.  A PROactive statement with those relatively salacious counter-torpedoes are not necessarily typical. 

[cowwboy]

22 minutes ago, smuurph84 said:

does anyone have a link to the tommys lawsuit? or an article summarizing it would be better.  google doesnt seem to turn anything up.

If you have an account with pacer (us distric courts document website) you can get the documents. But it's $0.10 a page. 
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/tennessee/tnedce/3:2024cv00166/114019

Edited April 12 by cowwboy

[oldjeep]

27 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Public companies decline comment on pending litigation all the time.  And that’s in response in questions.  A PROactive statement with those relatively salacious counter-torpedoes are not necessarily typical. 

When it is a comment about a 15-16 location dealer that they are apparently now dropping -  seems different.  

[hunter77ah]

24 minutes ago, cowwboy said:

If you have an account with pacer (us distric courts document website) you can get the documents. But it's $0.10 a page. 
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/tennessee/tnedce/3:2024cv00166/114019

Only if you hit a certain limit.  Not sure how big the document is but I am guessing even if you request a handful of the exhibits, you won't hit the quarterly minimum.

[DFish]

If anyone in this thread needs assistance in the Michigan area while this situation unfolds please don’t hesitate to reach out to me I am one of the senior sales staff at Gull Lake Marine. We understand this time is unnerving, but our service department will be able to assist you. Call in and Ask for Darren, I’ll hear your needs out and get you to the correct person for assistance. 

Edited April 12 by DFish

[wvance]

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manufacturers/lawsuit-filed-against-malibu-boats

[Woodski]

Sad when one has to resort to a shell game to stay in business where in many cases the big loser becomes the customer base.  The fairly recent expansion (i'll use several years as the timeframe) Tommy's embarked upon appears not to have worked as hoped.   One can only hope when the smoke clears each area represented by Tommy's still have a viable dealer to service the customer base.  Over the time I have been in the area it has been interesting to watch which dealer of the big three (Bu, MC, CC) occupied the top step as the 'best' area dealer, whether it was boat service, customer relationship etc. 

Edit:  The previous post covers the view from the dealership side, as others commented, will be interesting and sad to watch play out.

Edited April 12 by Woodski

[bcoppess23]

1 hour ago, Hemmy said:

Gull Lake?  They are actually closer to me than Tommy's (almost pass them on my way to Tommy's).  I will either have to go there or the dealer in Indiana.  The dealer in Indiana is just a tad closer but never gave me a good feeling when I tried to buy a boat from them.  

Yeah, I have heard similar stories of that other dealer you are talking about.

[Slayer]

47 minutes ago, DFish said:

If anyone in this thread needs assistance in the Michigan area while this situation unfolds please don’t hesitate to reach out to me I am one of the senior sales staff at Gull Lake Marine. We understand this time is unnerving, but our service department will be able to assist you. Call in and Ask for Darren, I’ll hear your needs out and get you to the correct person for assistance. 

I appreciate the connection.  It was a pleasure talking with you.  Thanks for representing the brand correctly.  

[85 Barefoot]

51 minutes ago, Woodski said:

Sad when one has to resort to a shell game to stay in business where in many cases the big loser becomes the customer base.  The fairly recent expansion (i'll use several years as the timeframe) Tommy's embarked upon appears not to have worked as hoped.   One can only hope when the smoke clears each area represented by Tommy's still have a viable dealer to service the customer base.  Over the time I have been in the area it has been interesting to watch which dealer of the big three (Bu, MC, CC) occupied the top step as the 'best' area dealer, whether it was boat service, customer relationship etc. 

“Shell game to stay in business”?  Tommy’s was Malibu’s largest dealer.  Per the lawsuit, 33% of its “…boat sales”.  I’ve read the lawsuit.  It has some amazing allegations.

[85 Barefoot]

59 minutes ago, wvance said:

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manufacturers/lawsuit-filed-against-malibu-boats

Y’all may want to read this.

[dshack]

^ yeah that summary of the lawsuit is insane. My level of concern is definitely ratcheting up...

[amartin]

Just unloaded all of my MBUU.  Regardless of which side of the story is more accurate, this cant go well from here for either party.

 

Of course, with my history of trading, MBUU will likely hit a new all time high in about 30 days

[85 Barefoot]

5 minutes ago, amartin said:

Just unloaded all of my MBUU.  Regardless of which side of the story is more accurate, this cant go well from here for either party.

 

Of course, with my history of trading, MBUU will likely hit a new all time high in about 30 days

For the starting point to be non-renewal of your largest dealer, responsible for 33% of your sales, thats saying something about demand.  Call me Carl Icahn.  

[bcoppess23]

6 minutes ago, amartin said:

Just unloaded all of my MBUU.  Regardless of which side of the story is more accurate, this cant go well from here for either party.

 

Of course, with my history of trading, MBUU will likely hit a new all time high in about 30 days

I have pennies in MBUU comparatively but have lost 50% of that money since I bought.  It has been a bad timing on my behalf so, I know what you mean there.. haha

[oldjeep]

33 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Y’all may want to read this.

If true, it is damning on some points (un paid incentives) - but the dealership had to be the one to increase its floorplan and actually take the additional boats.  Hopefully they would not be taking anyone's word for how many boats they thought they could sell.  I'd assume that Tommys saying that Malibu pumped expensive boats and Malibu saying that Tommys ordered all the boats just means that Malibu decided to build all the big expensive boats and get them out the door first.

 

[85 Barefoot]

19 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

If true, it is damning on some points (un paid incentives) - but the dealership had to be the one to increase its floorplan and actually take the additional boats.  Hopefully they would not be taking anyone's word for how many boats they thought they could sell.  I'd assume that Tommys saying that Malibu pumped expensive boats and Malibu saying that Tommys ordered all the boats just means that Malibu decided to build all the big expensive boats and get them out the door first.

 

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that Tommy’s didn’t increase the floor plan, it was the exertion of pressure to do so, and if the lawsuit is to be believed, was done to artificially inflate sales and stock price despite market signals.  Dealers are of course at least partly reliant on market research, data, figures, and forecasts by their manufacturer.  If you’re selling 33% of a $1B company’s product, it’s not so simple as calling up Monday saying we’re not gonna want those 500 more boats we committed to (and allegedly in Tommy’s case) committed to under (allegedly) undue pressure, influence, and (allegedly) deception. 

Edited April 12 by 85 Barefoot

[oldjeep]

4 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not that Tommy’s didn’t increase the floor plan, it was the exertion of pressure to do so, and if the lawsuit is to be believed, was done to artificially inflate sales and stock price despite market signals.  Dealers are of course at least partly reliant on market research, data, figures, and forecasts by their manufacturer.

I'm not sure that - I as a company want you to buy more stuff so that we look better is a unique thing.  No different than the things we used to do in industrial controls to try to push people to order as much stuff as possible before the end of the year.

[85 Barefoot]

2 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

I'm not sure that - I as a company want you to buy more stuff so that we look better is a unique thing.  No different than the things we used to do in industrial controls to try to push people to order as much stuff as possible before the end of the year.

Nope.  If it was that simple, maybe no big deal.  But if the lawsuit is to be believed, there are more nefarious motivations than having a good end of the year.  Again, that’s just if the allegations are true. Maybe they’re not and everything was above Board and Tommy overextended themselves with nothing improper from Malibu.  Guess we’ll find out.

But I would return to what I said previously, it’s not a good look for the sales outlook this year if Malibu, in March, essentially terminated its largest dealer.

[BLSousa]

This has all the makings of the venture capitalist backing company trying to force bankruptcy of the expansion company. The venture capital company having a first position as lender can discharge all of the expansion company's other acquisition based debt that is owed to previous owners. The VC can walk away with full ownership of the expansion company and all it’s assets, free and clear for the small fraction that they initially invested. 
 

This does not include the floor space assets. They will be received by their lender. The lender will then enter into an agreement with the acquisition company that is formed to acquire the bankrupt expansion company’s assets. Which acquisition company just happens to be owned by the original VC. The acquisition company will use the boats to restock its floor space and sell on behalf of the floor space lender, for some agreed fee. 

I can also see this making the floor stock manufacturer vulnerable to a hostile takeover. Possibly by the same VC or non-affiliated separate VC that is coordinating with them. 

Edited April 12 by BLSousa

[smuurph84]

this and the boating industry in general is just crazy! I thought my industry was a mess with supply demand allocation etc but the more i read up on how things work the more it sounds like gambling!  customer / supplier / manufacturer.  someone is going to lose . unfortunate and for sure has me second guessing a brand i hope to be loyal to.  I will be very interested to see how it all plays out with a bunch of the stock being sold by members of the board. sounds like an episode from american Greed from the article.

 

really hope the customers are not the ones to pay the price on this. there is a bunch of really good people who have purchased that i feel for if service warranty etc become a huge problem.