Power Wedge Not Moving

[justgary]

Divots in the flange are from an end mill when they machined it.  You can ignore them.

I agree that the one brush looks shorter than the others.  A good hardware store should have new ones that you can match up.

The motor should not have fluid in it as far as I would guess.  See if you can replace the seal on the pump.

[CarveItUp228]

OK, I will take another look at the brushes...maybe they have just slid in their respective lanes.

 

Not sure about the fluid. It was definitely in the motor cavity. I will see how I can get into the pump side.

 

[PNWoke]

+1 on no fluid in the motor cavity.  I would think you will need to find that leak and replace that seal/oring.  Would probably need to replace the hydraulic oil that leaked out and clean the electrical side real well with electrical contact cleaner and dry out before reassembly and testing.

Edited May 8 by PNWoke

[CarveItUp228]

OK, upon further reflection, I think I need to restate things a bit. I believe the fluid traveled from pump side to rotor side during the disassembly. I see now how there are o-rings to keep the fluid to one side.

 

I noticed the motor brushes were not fully forward. There are springs that I think are supposed to keep them forward but are not very strong. In any case, I pushed them forward. Not sure what else could be wrong here - hard to believe that was it.

 

I am thinking I could test the motor side before reassembly?

 

Not sure I can get into the piston side...there is a "screw head" on either side but have had no luck turning those...they seem almost permanent and I just damage them with any attempts.

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure I know what else to look for regarding this unit and what might be wrong with it.

 

 

 

 

[justgary]

Gently sand the brush faces with ultra fine paper to make sure they are clean. 

Gently sand the commutator with the same grit paper to get it shiny all the way around. 

Use a small blade to make sure the gaps between each pole in the commutator are deep enough and free of any carbon that could short the poles.  I usually grind a broken hacksaw blade thinner and use it to saw the gaps a bit.

Assemble and test.

You'll need to retain each brush with a small wire or paperclip to hold them all back while you drop the armature in place.  You can then pull the wires to free the brushes.

[69charged]

I often use my drill on the rotor and spin it that way to clean up the commutator. Works well. I use a small fine file first to square it up, then fine, fine sandpaper to polish it. If you have access to a commutator polishing block, even better. They are small and cheap. But can be hard to find. Everything else looks good there.  

[CarveItUp228]

OK, I polished the commutator up nice and shiny. And I sanded the ends of the brushes as best I could.

 

I figured out how to temporarily disengage the springs on each brush so I could insert the rotor, and then re-engage them before assembling the rotor into the housing. I then put DC 12V across the wires to test...and nothing. I rotated the top of the housing 180 degrees....still nothing.

 

My best guess is that the block where the wires go in...has some malfunction. Maybe the wires inside there are corroded or broken. They appear to be pretty permanently in there, so could not pull them out. I wiggled them around a bit but still nothing.

 

 

 

Shucks. Was worth the try though.

 

Looks like I will have to drop the $1600 for the new one. If anyone wants these parts I can send them for the price of shipping. If someone can fix it I would buy it back as a spare part.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

 

[justgary]

12 minutes ago, CarveItUp228 said:

Shucks. Was worth the try though.

Grab a meter and see if you can find which wires are connected and which aren't.  No doubt they are hooked to pairs of brushes that are opposite of each other (+ opposes +, and - opposes -). 

I'm thinking you can test resistance from one brush to an adjacent brush as you slowly spin the armature.  If a wire is open to one brush the resistance would be different on two adjacent sets compared to the other two.

Probably worth checking connections at the spade connectors at the brush ends as well.

[69charged]

What are the 2 Phillips screws holding? The brush gear plate? 
I agree with justgary. Use a meter to check from the leads to the braids. 
We're not done yet! 
 

[CarveItUp228]

I love the enthusiasm  OK I will check what those screws do, and do some electrical checks and report back

 

[CarveItUp228]

OK, just did some more work....and let me start by saying...YOU GUYS ROCK!

 

I think I just fixed the problem. By doing the electrical testing I was able to see that the green wire had continuity to two of the poles, but the blue wire had none to any of them. I removed the screws and saw how the wires came in. Interesting that they are each connected a bit differently. The green wire was more direct. The blue wire went through a kind f bus, where a plate carries the current across to the other side. And there is a metal tab that comes out and connects to a tiny metal post. It was a loose connection there. I did a (pretty poor) soldering job to secure it. But then testing it at various points, and finally with the assembly back together and got continuity form each wire to two of the four poles. Put the rotor back in the housing, connected the battery, and BAM! she was running!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

above it even looks like maybe there was overheating that caused some melting of the plastic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

soldered it....poorly, but it held.

 

 

So next step. I need to refill the pump chamber with hydraulic fluid? Not sure how full though. and then carefully reassemble. And then test.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[justgary]

38 minutes ago, CarveItUp228 said:

The blue wire went through a kind f bus, where a plate carries the current across to the other side.

That definitely looks like a thermal switch.  The metal plate should be a bimetal part that bends up as it gets hot, breaking the connection.  That is more likely to happen as the brushes wear and clog the commutator gaps, which increases current and reduces motor performance.  I'm thinking you could remove it completely and use a slow-blow fuse in its place elsewhere in the circuit.

Congratulations on the repair so far.  I hate to see people throw stuff away before a full investigation is done.  Most everything can be repaired if you get creative enough.

[69charged]

What does the contact side of the plate look like? And a person could maybe use a small nail file on the contacts on the brush plate to make sure they are not pitted at all. I can't tell from the pics but can the thermo cutout plate be turned over?

[CarveItUp228]

the plate looked fine and so did the contacts. There is a little spring that the screw goes through....so I guess it allows the plate to bend in the center and the edges would come up to break contact? I suppose if the calibration is off and the motor just keeps running, I could see how it could get hot. This certainly could have happened at some point and caused some melting...and ultimately a failure at that point in the picture. Although that point is a metal tab and a metal pin...that somehow got loose a bit so not making good contact.

[Nick55]

It looks like you found the smoking gun!  That thermal cutoff looks like it wasn’t actually the weak link in that circuit.  
 

as for filling the fluid on reassembly, you will likely want the reservoir fill with the ram fully retracted.  There shouldn’t be too much expansion when running it if it’s in the water being cooled down.  

[CarveItUp228]

OK, I just happened to have some (fairly old) OMC power trim fluid....and it was almost exactly the right amount. I didn't fill it completely full....left maybe half an inch of clearance with the top. Bolted the parts back together and tested with the bench battery and....it worked! Piston would extend or contract as I switch the leads on the battery terminals.

I then decided to go ahead and put back on the boat. 2 Hours later I had it in place, wires back through the transom and connected...and....I tested it and...it worked!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully that fluid is ok. I will test it on the water tomorrow!

 

 

 

 

[justgary]

Grab a can of LPS-3 and coat the motor and pump with it, especially where the wires and screws are.  Freshen it up a few times a year.

[Nick55]

@CarveItUp228 Congratulatuons, you are now better than 90% of the technicians out there!  You fixed instead of replaced.  Even with your learning and trial/error, you probably spent less than 10 hours at a shop rate of $180 fixing your boat.  Perhaps even had a few beers while doing it.   I may be sentimental here but I’m proud when I see people DIY it and it works out well.  
 

Great job!

[ahopkins22LSV]

Awesome work man. Love watching this forum convince someone to take a bit of a gamble going outside their comfort zone and making it happen!

[69charged]

Good work!! 
Now I get to try my hand at fixing!! I want to see if I can machine an end cap. I thought maybe I read somewhere I can send it in for a cap replacement, but can’t hurt to DIY it first eh!!! 

[justgary]

Any chance of welding it?

[Nick55]

I’m pretty positive that end is glass fiber reinforced plastic. 

[justgary]

12 hours ago, Nick55 said:

I’m pretty positive that end is glass fiber reinforced plastic. 

Sorry about that.  I guess we know why it broke, then.

Did you remove it and make a drawing?

[CarveItUp228]

On 5/10/2024 at 5:59 PM, Nick55 said:

@CarveItUp228 Congratulatuons, you are now better than 90% of the technicians out there!  You fixed instead of replaced.  Even with your learning and trial/error, you probably spent less than 10 hours at a shop rate of $180 fixing your boat.  Perhaps even had a few beers while doing it.   I may be sentimental here but I’m proud when I see people DIY it and it works out well.  
 

Great job!

 

On 5/10/2024 at 5:56 PM, justgary said:

Grab a can of LPS-3 and coat the motor and pump with it, especially where the wires and screws are.  Freshen it up a few times a year.

 

On 5/10/2024 at 6:33 PM, ahopkins22LSV said:

Awesome work man. Love watching this forum convince someone to take a bit of a gamble going outside their comfort zone and making it happen!

 

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that. I couldn't have done it without the guidance here, so THANK YOU for that. You saved me a ton of money, time waiting for the new part to arrive, and helped give me the joy of repairing something myself. I also love learning so this was a nice learning event for me. This was a great story and I am humbled to have it posted here for others to hopefully gain something as well.

 

As far as time, roughly 10 hours is probably close. 2 hours taking the actuator off, 2 for back on, 6 for troubleshooting and repairing. I could do it faster now, I suppose. If I would have taken it in for service, I imagine they would have just swapped the part, uplifted the part cost to something like $2K, and probably $1K in labor (just guessing), so probably $3K bill. I am not slamming the shop, just being realistic about the charges - I know they have to make a living too.

 

I took the boat out on Saturday and the wedge worked great all day! I think 16 runs were done in total through 9 hours on the water.

 

I use this boat alot, so no doubt my next post is coming soon.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

[PNWoke]

This is a perfect example of why TMC is the most valuable wake boat resource on the internet.  👏