Illusion X Tower Springs / Adjustment / Expectation

[Powerstroked]

I have an 2009 VLX with the Illusion X Tower. Two wetsounds speakers, one wakeboard rack, and OEM bimini. I recently learned it had spring assist to raise and lower the tower after seeing the you lady in the 10+yr old video. I have to raise and lower for storage.
My springs apparently do not have the lift anymore. I turned both nuts to the right to reportedly increase lift as discussed in a pdf found online on another website. I;m not sure that it helped much if at all.

Could springs be bad? 

Did I mess up the adjustment?

I have contacted the local Malibu dealer and waiting to hear back about replacement springs. His first response was about gas shocks, but I replied back mine doesn't have them.

I have also reached out to Bakes.

Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thank you,

Robert

Edited August 9, 2023 by Powerstroked

[minnmarker]

I've got the same tower.  The only solution I found was taking weight off the tower or getting stronger arms.

[Powerstroked]

Thanks for the reply. I can only find the oem arms/springs assembly. Are there others available?

I may try to have new springs made, depending on cost.

Thanks,

Robert

[mrothwell]

I was wondering if we could find a spring with more force and replace the current spring.

 

[Powerstroked]

I am willing to remove mine for a few specs.

Anyone know what the tower, racks, and speakers weigh?

Or what the other was rated for?

I'm surprised racks and speakers exceed the oem spring design.

[Powerstroked]

Getting a late start on my winter project...

Overall dimension 44mm.

Length is 39+153+43 mm= 235mm long (Inside hook to coil to Inside hook)
Coil is 5mm thick.

29 coils.

Using a luggage weight tool, I can start to spread the first coils with 45 lbs of pull and get decent deflection with 70-80 pounds.

My two racks are ~15lbs/each (30lbs )+ Two 8 inch tower speakers ~7lbs/ea (15lbs) + bimini, lights, (~15lbs) and tower itself. 

 

[justgary]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:02 PM, Powerstroked said:

Getting a late start on my winter project...

Overall dimension 44mm.

Length is 39+153+43 mm= 235mm long (Inside hook to coil to Inside hook)
Coil is 5mm thick.

29 coils.

Using a luggage weight tool, I can start to spread the first coils with 45 lbs of pull and get decent deflection with 70-80 pounds.

My two racks are ~15lbs/each (30lbs )+ Two 8 inch tower speakers ~7lbs/ea (15lbs) + bimini, lights, (~15lbs) and tower itself. 

 

Using your numbers and assuming the coils touch each other at rest, 153/29 gives a maximum coil thickness of 5.28mm.

Springs are measured with force per deflection, so grab your tools and measure again.  Put some weight (I'll call it W1) on the spring as a preload to make sure the coils are separated, then (accurately) measure the overall length (I'll call it D1).  Now add enough weight (D2) to get to "decent deflection" and measure the length (W2) again.  The spring constant K is then:

K = (W2-W1) / (D2-D1)

You mixed unit systems in your original post (mm and pounds), but those are easy to convert to N/mm or pounds/inch.  A stiffer spring will have a higher K value.

I'm curious to see the placement of the springs in the tower.  Please post a photo that shows the general arrangement.  I'm picturing a cantilever arm forward of the hinge, with the springs pulling down toward the tower base.

[mrothwell]

Quote

I'm curious to see the placement of the springs in the tower.  Please post a photo that shows the general arrangement.  I'm picturing a cantilever arm forward of the hinge, with the springs pulling down toward the tower base.

The springs are horizontal under the top deck.  They attach to the tower via a cable around a pully.  

 

I would like to replace mine with heavier springs also, if you can find one that would work.

 

[Powerstroked]

They have a nut on the stern end that can be tightened to increase force. I tightened both with no success.

mrothwell, how much stuff do you have on your rack? I'm curious if the springs are too light or worn out.

[Powerstroked]

On 4/29/2024 at 7:45 AM, justgary said:

Using your numbers and assuming the coils touch each other at rest, 153/29 gives a maximum coil thickness of 5.28mm.

Springs are measured with force per deflection, so grab your tools and measure again.  Put some weight (I'll call it W1) on the spring as a preload to make sure the coils are separated, then (accurately) measure the overall length (I'll call it D1).  Now add enough weight (D2) to get to "decent deflection" and measure the length (W2) again.  The spring constant K is then:

K = (W2-W1) / (D2-D1)

You mixed unit systems in your original post (mm and pounds), but those are easy to convert to N/mm or pounds/inch.  A stiffer spring will have a higher K value.

I'm curious to see the placement of the springs in the tower.  Please post a photo that shows the general arrangement.  I'm picturing a cantilever arm forward of the hinge, with the springs pulling down toward the tower base.

It might take me a while to get that kind of setup to find out, but thats good to know. Springs are not my anywhere in my world of expertise. Thanks for the suggestion.

[mrothwell]

21 hours ago, Powerstroked said:

They have a nut on the stern end that can be tightened to increase force. I tightened both with no success.

mrothwell, how much stuff do you have on your rack? I'm curious if the springs are too light or worn out.

Just one pair of speakers, bimini, 2 board racks.

But even new, it was pretty heavy.  I have always had to put something for the tower to rest on so it doesn't leave a dent in the dash.  I have the springs as tight as they will go.

 

[Powerstroked]

On 5/2/2024 at 1:18 PM, mrothwell said:

Just one pair of speakers, bimini, 2 board racks.

But even new, it was pretty heavy.  I have always had to put something for the tower to rest on so it doesn't leave a dent in the dash.  I have the springs as tight as they will go.

 

I have a call out to see if I could send in a spring to have spec'd and increased. The video on YT shows a tower, speakers, and two empty racks so it seems like that should be a functional baseline. 
Crazy thought but mine spring is out.... could it be that the springs are set too tightly and have been extended past max capacity? Would it make sense to try to "loosen" like it has a powerband or kick point for my hockey stick guys? @justgary thoughts on that? You seem to have some advanced knowledge if springs.

Edited 11 hours ago by Powerstroked