Audio file question...

[thebill]

Audio file question, I have a pair of Kicker KMTC9 HLCD on my boat tower rated at 4OHMS ,600W Peak power but 150 to 300 RMS.  I have amp rated 4ohms bridged at 500x2.  Now for one, I’m  not sure it is any 500 per channel is that  peak or RMS Power?  I have it ran through a Memphis MXZ BT EQ and this amp is only serving those speakers. I have anther amp that does the boat speakers and sub and its not having this issue.

however  last season,  if I’d put in the past ¾ volume too full at times , the speakers would drop out IE amp was going into protection… so at the cut power to amp to  reset it and it all come back on again.

 it was getting annoying but my question is what is the proper way to set up a gain on this set up, does it seem like it’s got too much power?  I had a gain set pretty low already but getting what my speaker rating is compared to what I just listed for my amp rating. Does the gain  need to be turned down or  more or is this a clipping issue? maybe the amp quality  is not a very good , I doubt that as my other amp is also a Precision Power class d amp and it has no issues.

 

I want to maximize the output to hear them at 80ft wakeboarding while not hurting rh amp or speaker. So simply keeping it below ¾ volume, I’m losing some range.

 

I’m thinking my ground and or power wires might be little small and will change those but am open to ideas.

Outside of bringing it to an audio pace and having them tune it like a pro but my amps are buried behind my sub under the dash and hard to get too so they would not be happy about attempting this, with sub pulled out and my stuff open I don’t like doing that either ie leaving it exposed and them having no liability if it gets harmed or stolen on their lot.

Any ideas?

[thebill]

amp rating 

 

RMS Power 4Ω140W x 4 (14.4V, 1KHz, ≤ 1% THD+N)

RMS Power 2Ω250W x 4 (14.4V, 1KHz, ≤ 1% THD+N)

• RMS Bridged 4Ω500W x 2 (14.4V, 1KHz, ≤ 1% THD+N)

 

I have it bridged , speakers say 150- 300 RMS but peak 600 so is my issue with 500 W rms the gain should be low to not hurt the sepaker.. i get confused on peak vs rms but if peak can handle 600 RMS 300 amp is rms 500, what am i missing?

[shawndoggy]

you are mixing up a whole bunch of concepts into a stew of confusion.

Your speakers are rated for 300w rms at 4ohms

Your amp puts out 500w rms x 2 @4ohms

If you feed full power from your amp to your speakers you will be overdriving them.  Many folks will push greater than rated rms power to a speaker, but realize the consequences of that are on you.  Peak power is just a nonsense number that you can disregard.  RMS is what you need to worry about.

GAINS ARE FOR LEVEL MATCHING.  Properly set, gains will allow you to push the full signal from your headunit / EQ / etc to the low range inputs on your amp, so that the signal outputs from the amp result in full power to the speakers.  That EQ puts out a very strong signal, and should not require the gains on the amp to be set very high.  Once you are driving the amp to its full potential turning the gains higher just leads to premature speaker destroying distortion.

In your case, because your amp can push higher than rated power to your speakers,  your amp should probably be set too low / i.e. be "undergained" (to throttle back the amp).  You certainly don't want to overdrive the amp.

AMP SHUTTING DOWN.  This is a function of the amp's internal protection.  either the amp is overheating, or it is experiencing a low current condition (your too small power and ground wires are a potential culprit).  Shutdowns are very unlikely to have anything to do with gains.  Proper sized power and ground wire and amp cooling are your low hanging fruit.

[MLA]

Think of RMS rating as a target to shoot for to get the most out of a speaker. Peak speaker rating is a thermal max before the coil melts. Using an amp with a rated RMS capacity above the speaker's RMS is what we call headroom. This means the speaker is going to perform to its potential. yet the amp has a little reserve left in the tank. 

So, an amp rated at 500x2 rms to a 9" HLCD does not scare me, as long as the system is tuned correctly and theres a little discipline at the volume dial. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by MLA

[Nitrousbird]

I'm a big fan of tuning with the Steve Meade Designs SMD DD-1 for gains and CC-1 for crossovers:

https://www.amazon.com/Steve-Meade-Designs-Distortion-Detector/dp/B07ND3NDDF/ref=asc_df_B07ND3NDDF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312204381102&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11307059586700707286&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014901&hvtargid=pla-643002552843&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/SMD-CC-1-Crossover-Calibrator/dp/B00802PJEM/ref=asc_df_B00802PJEM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309809835998&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7845475361805288273&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014901&hvtargid=pla-491076095219&psc=1

 

CC-1 because the markings on your amp for the crossover aren't always accurate.  DD-1 so you can actually find the distortion point.  I realizing an O-scope can do it too, along with some other methods, but this is quick/easy.  You find the distortion point of your source unit first, max it out to right before it distorts (or full volume if it doesn't), then work your way back to the amp doing the same thing.  You can have your amp gains set super low but if your source distorts at a certain level, that is a level you need to avoid.  The DD-1 lets you find that level.  

[COOP]

Gains are NOT volume controls.

Most amps are designed for a 4 volt input, your Memphis EQ has 6 volts of output. So your amp gains should be set at zero gain. I dont think I saw what amp you have, but given the EQ output the gain will need to be DOWN. You can burn up the inputs on amp with to much voltage. Plus you can clip the inputs as well which cause distortion, and distortion creates heat, amps dont like heat.

 

 

[MLA]

Most amps have a much wider range of voltage input tolerance that higher then 4V. Some as much as 8V. Some amps even have a switch that allows the amp to accept low voltage pre-amp or hi-level speaker output. 4V is is quickly becoming a standard for media unit output, replacing the old common 2V. With that said, that 4V is an RMS, not a constant. Not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that a pre-amp RMS of 6V (IIRC, the memphis eq is adjustable) would mean the amp gain should be at its minimum? 

A higher pre-amp voltage puts you further away from a clipped signal at near peak volume, not closer. Not sure what you are trying to say there, coop. A 4V pre-amp is much more stable and will require a lower gain setting, then a 2V, and 6V will be the same v's a 4V pre-amp. 

A clipped signal is far more dangerous for the driver, then it is for the amp. If you clip the signal in to the amp, from a low pre-amp voltage and excessive volume dial input, or clip the signal out due to excessive amp gain, the driver will suffer more, as amp output gets erratic and unpredictable.  

[Steve B.]

Headroom and dampening are big elements also in quality, safe audio. When something like 3dB makes a difference, music source and preferences add to the equation of choosing components. All that said, gain is sensitivity to an incoming signal. Especially side-chain devices like an eq start acting like a compressor/limiter when they start to saturate with signal. Then you turn it up to 11. That may be ok for some sound preferences 🙃, but may leave you nowhere to go when you ask for that last doubling of sound power. So so many variables .