Used Boat Prices Falling

[granddaddy55]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:57 PM, hethj7 said:

They also spent $857 million on legal and advisory fees to settle product liability claims    Sorry to those that are lawyers here, but jeez the fees and lawsuit sizes are just astronomical in this country.   

killing our insurance rates for cars in south louisiana ($2700 for 6 months coverage for a ‘16 f150 and 18 5.0 mustang convertible) car accident fraud rings everywhere and the insurance company attorneys not willing to fight it cause the “liberal” make up of inner city civil juries.  they just pay and raise rates even as the rings get busted .  couple that with our gov’s caused inflation of repair material costs is killing us all.  couple that with the billboard advertising ambulance chasers and this is spiraling out of control 

[The Hulk]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:38 PM, CaptainMorgan said:

i'm no expert at reading these things - but  (a) i'm calculating the Malibu/Axis volumes went down by 34% year over year (yikes!) and (b) pretty sure "VARIABLE COST STRUCUTE" on slide 6 isn't an economics term  

 

Units down and prices way up and profits also way down.. that's basically everyone in mfg right now.. there are so many layoffs in the Midwest mfg sector It's crazy.. keep in mind we're still not going to feel the effect of the current interest rates for at least another year unless we see an unlikely/doubtful quick pivot. Frankly it's too late already.. .

employers are still slightly reluctant to lay off as many as they want because they have had such a hard time hiring over the past few years... 

 

 

[The Hulk]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:46 PM, Cole2001 said:

Did we all forget Cobolt is coming out with an r32 surf??

But there already are some big boats out there, Chapparral already has a 30ft surf, Aviara has a 28ft surf, Crownline has a 280. I have surfed the r8 and r7 surf, four winns and Crownline, lets just say wasn't anything to brag about any of them. 

It's because the Hulk dreamed these into existence hahaha 🤣

[oldjeep]

4 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

 

employers are still slightly reluctant to lay off as many as they want because they have had such a hard time hiring over the past few years... 

 

 

Yeah.  IT Consulting is an odd mix right now of layoffs and inability to hire people.

[The Hulk]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:38 PM, CaptainMorgan said:

i'm no expert at reading these things - but  (a) i'm calculating the Malibu/Axis volumes went down by 34% year over year (yikes!)

 

 

[The Hulk]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:57 PM, hethj7 said:

They also spent $857 million on legal and advisory fees to settle product liability claims    Sorry to those that are lawyers here, but jeez the fees and lawsuit sizes are just astronomical in this country.   

Did I miss there were more claims than the main one? 

Hopefully Supra has a bunch of warnings on their bow for their notorious dipped nose bows of the recent past. 

[Cole2001]

6 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Did I miss there were more claims than the main one? 

Hopefully Supra has a bunch of warnings on their bow for their notorious dipped nose bows of the recent past. 

Which model? I have never came close on a SL or SE. 

[dalt1]

49 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Which model? I have never came close on a SL or SE. 

Never dipped mine yet in over 100 hours. The older Supras had that down swept bow that looked like it just wanted to dive!

[The Hulk]

12 minutes ago, dalt1 said:

Never dipped mine yet in over 100 hours. The older Supras had that down swept bow that looked like it just wanted to dive!

Yes these!

I mean the BU lawsuit is on a very old Malibu boat.. it's gotta be the world's most expensive missing warning sticker now?  I am confused on $857M legal fees for a 100M settlement? Are there many others? That's obviously not sustainable by any means. I mean at some point if that continues file bankruptcy, and change names.. 

[shawndoggy]

14 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Yes these!

I mean the BU lawsuit is on a very old Malibu boat.. it's gotta be the world's most expensive missing warning sticker now?  I am confused on $857M legal fees for a 100M settlement? Are there many others? That's obviously not sustainable by any means. I mean at some point if that continues file bankruptcy, and change names.. 

that’s kinda one of the more interesting things in the Malibu suit IMHO… the boat was made by “old Malibu” (the California entity) and not the new entity that bought the Malibu assets. Seems like the issue of successor liability would’ve been heavily litigated and also likely that “old Malibu” could have an indemnity obligation depending on the terms of the sale of the company. 
 

too lazy to look for the court’s orders on that issue or see whether Malibu tried to bring the  old company into the suit. 

EDIT: ok I found the trial court's post judgment order, which does discuss the successor liability issues.  Start reading around page 56 if you're curious.  https://www.clarkfountain.com/wp-content/uploads/Batchelder-v.-Malibu-Boats-LLC-Order-on-Malibu-Boats-LLCs-Post-Trial-Motions.pdf

Edited November 6, 2023 by shawndoggy

[Sparky450]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:05 AM, granddaddy55 said:

killing our insurance rates for cars in south louisiana ($2700 for 6 months coverage for a ‘16 f150 and 18 5.0 mustang convertible) car accident fraud rings everywhere and the insurance company attorneys not willing to fight it cause the “liberal” make up of inner city civil juries.  they just pay and raise rates even as the rings get busted .  couple that with our gov’s caused inflation of repair material costs is killing us all.  couple that with the billboard advertising ambulance chasers and this is spiraling out of control 

@granddaddy55

When did you move to California?

😂😂

[jeffmx]

9 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

that’s kinda one of the more interesting things in the Malibu suit IMHO… the boat was made by “old Malibu” (the California entity) and not the new entity that bought the Malibu assets. Seems like the issue of successor liability would’ve been heavily litigated and also likely that “old Malibu” could have an indemnity obligation depending on the terms of the sale of the company. 
 

too lazy to look for the court’s orders on that issue or see whether Malibu tried to bring the  old company into the suit. 

EDIT: ok I found the trial court's post judgment order, which does discuss the successor liability issues.  Start reading around page 56 if you're curious.  https://www.clarkfountain.com/wp-content/uploads/Batchelder-v.-Malibu-Boats-LLC-Order-on-Malibu-Boats-LLCs-Post-Trial-Motions.pdf

Thanks for sharing that information.

[The Hulk]

20 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

that’s kinda one of the more interesting things in the Malibu suit IMHO… the boat was made by “old Malibu” (the California entity) and not the new entity that bought the Malibu assets. Seems like the issue of successor liability would’ve been heavily litigated and also likely that “old Malibu” could have an indemnity obligation depending on the terms of the sale of the company. 
 

too lazy to look for the court’s orders on that issue or see whether Malibu tried to bring the  old company into the suit. 

EDIT: ok I found the trial court's post judgment order, which does discuss the successor liability issues.  Start reading around page 56 if you're curious.  https://www.clarkfountain.com/wp-content/uploads/Batchelder-v.-Malibu-Boats-LLC-Order-on-Malibu-Boats-LLCs-Post-Trial-Motions.pdf

Good find! 

So where the other half billion of professional fees go to/towards? 

[shawndoggy]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:57 PM, hethj7 said:

They also spent $857 million on legal and advisory fees to settle product liability claims    Sorry to those that are lawyers here, but jeez the fees and lawsuit sizes are just astronomical in this country.   

5 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Good find! 

So where the other half billion of professional fees go to/towards? 

doesn't it say "dollars in thousands?"  Not that $857K is nothing, but a far cry from $857M (which looks like it would be basically a year's worth of net cash from sales?).

Edited November 7, 2023 by shawndoggy

[hethj7]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

doesn't it say "dollars in thousands?"  Not that $857K is nothing, but a far cry from $857M (which looks like it would be basically a year's worth of net cash from sales?).

Oh man, you are right.   Sorry - boneheaded mistake.   So many statements I do deal with are in millions.  I should have slowed down and realized MBUU's net income for the period wouldn't be $20 Billion (especially before selling any 27LSV to @The Hulk).    Sorry for getting some mis-information out there.  I usually try to be better than that.  

[shawndoggy]

18 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Oh man, you are right.   Sorry - boneheaded mistake.   So many statements I do deal with are in millions.  I should have slowed down and realized MBUU's net income for the period wouldn't be $20 Billion (especially before selling any 27LSV to @The Hulk).    Sorry for getting some mis-information out there.  I usually try to be better than that.  

Haha no worries @hethj7!  You did get the “first kill all the lawyers” mob spooled up with their torches and pitchforks! 😜

[Bozboat]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:14 AM, shawndoggy said:

that’s kinda one of the more interesting things in the Malibu suit IMHO… the boat was made by “old Malibu” (the California entity) and not the new entity that bought the Malibu assets. Seems like the issue of successor liability would’ve been heavily litigated and also likely that “old Malibu” could have an indemnity obligation depending on the terms of the sale of the company. 
 

too lazy to look for the court’s orders on that issue or see whether Malibu tried to bring the  old company into the suit. 

EDIT: ok I found the trial court's post judgment order, which does discuss the successor liability issues.  Start reading around page 56 if you're curious.  https://www.clarkfountain.com/wp-content/uploads/Batchelder-v.-Malibu-Boats-LLC-Order-on-Malibu-Boats-LLCs-Post-Trial-Motions.pdf

Brutal 80 page rebuke. 

[The Hulk]

8 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

doesn't it say "dollars in thousands?"  Not that $857K is nothing, but a far cry from $857M (which looks like it would be basically a year's worth of net cash from sales?).

Oh ha should have caught that myself 😅 ok that makes sense on cost to settle that lawsuit and or others. 

[jeffmx]

For those that listen to Pod casts, this is regarding the lawsuit.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-great-trials-podcast/id1446919676?i=1000544196075

[The Hulk]

Interesting listen.. 

I sense surf/ballasted boats especially earlier versions are going be a future liability problem for these mfgs.. especially providing ways/plumbing PNP suggesting for additional aftermarket ballast to be added.. 

We have all known about bow swamping for years.. I'm sure a "new NSBA" National Surf Boat Association.. will be created for some sort of new surf/ballast testing standards or mainly to employee another do nothing agency.. 

Interesting how they discuss free board height compared to Wave created by boat height.. that could be a issue for any potential future surf type accidents

sadly with a verdict and payout like that it won't be long before we hear TV and radio ads of have you been injured or incurred damages in a surf boat made between the years X and X Please call now... 

Sadly I'm sure they'll be a bunch of liability waivers, design changes, added warning stickers, increased insurance cost, for the MFGs, and users... Nothing to help reduce prices that's for sure...

I almost wonder if This is part of the reason flite sold to Brunswick... E foils are extremely dangerous.. although super fun! 

On a side note just talked to a boat mfg, they are down 25+% and they expect to be -30% by years end. Their projecting/planning/forecasting an additional -20+% next year.. yikes

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by The Hulk

[Sixer]

2021 M240 with 37 hours for $160k.  (Not mine.)

https://www.facebook.com/commerce/listing/876678790738723/?media_id=0&ref=share_attachment

That's significantly cheaper than the 2024 23 LSV I was quoted last week.

[The Hulk]

She's just past break-in! Haha 😂

[Steve B.]

Goodness gracious that 240 is hot !

[pauley71]

12 hours ago, Sixer said:

2021 M240 with 37 hours for $160k.  (Not mine.)

No trailer and [potentially] only 2 years on warranty but agree .. that is a deal (w/ caveats)

[Cole2001]

After getting a trailer this one will end up being cheaper. 2021 172k USD

https://www.wizardlakemarine.com/Pre-owned-Inventory-2021-Malibu-Boats-Boat-M240-Kelowna-14130114?ref=list