Used Boat Prices Falling

[justgary]

16 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

How much money is the exactly right amount of money to be in circulation at any one time?

The US Congress has indicated that 2% inflation is the "correct" amount.  I would presume that this is non-zero due to population increase and other influences such as international trade.

Then they go off and do stupid things like dig $3Trillion more out of a $30Trillion hole, which instantly gave us about 10% inflation.  They know that it takes years for their spending spree to show up in the various indicators, so they blame all sorts of things except themselves as the cause.

[The Hulk]

I really don't mean to burst everybody's bubble here but we are well into a deep recession already despite what the definition of recession is.. or.. was... 

three other major boat lift manufacturers are down 60%... That's more than the 35 to 50% range a few of the other big ones are down.

So if you want to know about boat sales there's your indicator from this winter sales numbers are drastically down and I suspect you will see Malibu and most other boat manufacturers laying off a minimum of 20 plus percent staff very soon most are already late unless they're just not caught up with backlog yet... 

 

 

[shawndoggy]

20 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

I really don't mean to burst everybody's bubble here but we are well into a deep recession already despite what the definition of recession is.. 

So ignore the meaning of the thing when say that you see the thing.

Who’s on first.  

[spikew919]

Take a long hard look. Then really think about it.  Who are these debts owed to exactly. Then ask “well who really runs the show” 🤡🤡🤡🏦🏦  

[hunter77ah]

10 minutes ago, spikew919 said:

Take a long hard look. Then really think about it.  Who are these debts owed to exactly. Then ask “well who really runs the show” 🤡🤡🤡🏦🏦  

What’s the answer?

[ahopkins22LSV]

Alright, that’s enough everyone. We all know the TOU and this thread has been warned more times than a parent threatening to take a kids favorite toy away. Let’s not force it to be closed. 

[Slurpee]

Oh I don’t know. It’s like in Scalzi’s book, Red Shirts. When the main character’s are approached by a fringe character and told to, “not engage in the dialogue!”  It just propagates the story, but not your survival.

Please end this thread. There is no useful information that can be corroborated because sources aren’t cited. 91% of the posts are a lie. See what I did there?

And I can’t see good posts in the feed immediately when I log in where a positive community benefit is happening because of this chum. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Slurpee
Corrected author’s name

[spikew919]

Got a boat close to me. Been listed about 6 months. Really nicely optioned 2022, 25lsv with 46 hrs and price has dropped 20,000 in 6 months.  Don’t know if that means used boat prices are dropping or not 🤷🏻‍♂️

“ Darkness is the absence of light, Be the light and you will never be in the darkness 🌀” 

[OtherBoatisaCessna]

Doesn’t the old saw go something like “a recession is when your friend gets laid off, a depression is when you do”.  
 

According to those metrics, we are definitely in a recession, at least for me - tons of people I know in tech are getting “riff’ed”.  

Edited April 22, 2023 by OtherBoatisaCessna

[sidekicknicholas]

Back to used boats....

Some more anecdotal evidence from our recent shopping experience 

* I looked at 3x different G25s.  Two were brokerage boats and one private party.  The brokerage boats both had extremely low hours and the private party had normal / high use hours.   Brokerage boats did not budge on price, private party dropped a lot.    

* I looked at a used (2020-2021) A24, T23, and T250 and almost all of these had prices within $10k vs custom order 2023 A24 / T235 / T250.  The used boats again did not seem to budge on price more than 2-3% from asking, new on Axis I was seeing ~18-20% off MSRP.

* I looked at a few 23MXZ, 23LSV, and 24MXZ boats ... mostly 2022 leftover new boats, and two used 23LSVs.    The dealers seemed EXTREMELY motivated to move the leftover 2022s; 33-35% off MSRP was easy.

* I looked at Supra SE / SL ... Used brokerage boats didnt budge on price, new ones were seeing like 15% off

I think there are 2 or 3 things at play that I noticed when look and I equate it to people who got flush with cash during the pandemic vs. folks we always were flush with cash... Many people over paid for boats in 2020 to early 2022... they're stuck and need to get their asking price or they're SOL.  This seems to impact the mid / lower range of boats vs. the higher end boats.  The folks who dropped big bucks on higher end boats (G23 and G25, M240, Supra SE550, MC X24 / XStarS) have already upgraded to another new boat and just want to unload their old one.... its paid for, and they would rather take a hit and get the cash back in their pocket than hold out for 2-3 months to squeeze an extra few thousand out of it.  The boats where sellers were willing to deal to "current" depressed market were like 5 out of 5 taking delivery of their new boat this spring.  Its made for an interesting process.  

Considering my last few boats were:

1992 Hydrodyne Legacy : $7500 in 2000 ... sold to buy -->  1995 Nautique Super Sport: $14000 in 2006 ... sold to buy --> 2004 Malibu 23LSV: $24,000 ... sold in 2018 when I moved to California .... and now jumping to a 2016 G25 for $100k... times have certainly changed, prices have changed, and my hope with going much more used than a 2020-2022 is the higher end boats have found their floor.  I expect it to depreciate 10% per year with normal use and proper maintenance, but so long as new boats keep seeing s 8-10% price hike per year, I think I get 2-3% value added back to mine ... so a net depreciation of like 7% per year.  Only way this blows up is if Nautique / Malibu / Mastercraft start doing price cuts like Tesla to make new ones more attractive.  If someone really wants a G25 the thing starts at $250k now... with options you're at $325k+ for sure... assume a good discount of 25% back to the original $250k, which is in another tier of expensive.  

 

What I expect over the next few years (barring full economic collapse) would be (assuming 22-24' boats for the sake of this):
* Pre-surf system V-drive boats will all settle in between $15-$40k ... this is the absolute floor to get a wakeboard boat depending years/hours/etc.  Low end you have early sunsetter LSVs, super sport nautiques, 205v, etc etc.  The OG core boats that do 50-60% of what a new boat would do, but in most cases are much smaller.

* 2013-2016 Gen1 surf system boats will anchor in just above, $40-$75k ... folks want to push a button to surf, wakeboard, etc and dont want to d*** with aftermarket suction cup systems / plug and play ballast / lead etc etc.  This boats I think settle in to this space and hold.  These boats give you 75-80% of what a new modern boat gives you.

* 2016-2021 Modern wakeboats with modern surf systems, larger subfloor ballast systems, modern screens / UI / amenities will hunker down the $75-150k range for the next 10 years.  They're 90% a new boat and as prices continue to grown on new MSRPs, these start to feel justifiable at their price because new is just absurd.

 

[spikew919]

Is this a deal? 

[bcoppess23]

5 minutes ago, spikew919 said:

Is this a deal? 

I'd say probably isn't a bad deal.

[sidekicknicholas]

I think it looks pretty good.

I would say average for that right now is maybe $150k, so $138k asking seems quite fair.

[Sixer]

9 hours ago, sidekicknicholas said:

I think it looks pretty good.

I would say average for that right now is maybe $150k, so $138k asking seems quite fair.

Especially with the upgrades......555 Supercharged, Rev's, clamping racks.  And LOW hours!  Looks like a good price to me.  Local dealer has a 2020 with 325 hours for 139,900.  I don't think that one has the engine upgrade.  

[spikew919]

Only 69hrs. Cash negotiations could make this a steal for someone. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by spikew919

[Nitrousbird]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:44 PM, oldjeep said:

Yeah, but some people are weird about buying from private parties. Even on 4K motorcycles I have had people who think I should go to the DMV with them, or exchange money at their bank.  Can't imagine how twitchy folks get with real money.

I do all my transactions at a bank.  Cash (or wire) gets transferred there, title gets notarized on the spot there.  Both parties feel safe.  Years ago when I bought my Escalade EXT, it had both stock wheels and some 26" wheels on it, though not totally awful, absolutely appealed to a certain demographic.  Even though it was only $1500, I made sure to meet at a bank and immediately walked in and deposited the cash - better safe than sorry.  

Last 5 vehicles were all sold at the bank - even one to a close friend of mine, not because of security, but just to get the title notarized.  

[oldjeep]

1 hour ago, Nitrousbird said:

I do all my transactions at a bank.  Cash (or wire) gets transferred there, title gets notarized on the spot there.  Both parties feel safe.  Years ago when I bought my Escalade EXT, it had both stock wheels and some 26" wheels on it, though not totally awful, absolutely appealed to a certain demographic.  Even though it was only $1500, I made sure to meet at a bank and immediately walked in and deposited the cash - better safe than sorry.  

Last 5 vehicles were all sold at the bank - even one to a close friend of mine, not because of security, but just to get the title notarized.  

Title notarization isn't a thing here in MN.  Even when you buy an out of state vehicle where they require notarization, MN doesn't require it on the original title (Just went through this with my Ducati).  I guess I don't worry about stuff like that.  Guy who just bought my FZ1 came over to the house, paid cash and I stuck it in my pocket.

Edited May 16, 2023 by oldjeep

[Nitrousbird]

24 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Title notarization isn't a thing here in MN.  Even when you buy an out of state vehicle where they require notarization, MN doesn't require it on the original title (Just went through this with my Ducati).  I guess I don't worry about stuff like that.  Guy who just bought my FZ1 came over to the house, paid cash and I stuck it in my pocket.

Even if a state doesn't require a notary for the title (such as when I bought my Porsche in Texas that has an Arizona title), I still get a notarized bill of sale.  Protects me for proof I purchased it as a legit purchase (and if I get pulled over on the drive home).  Also protects me on a sale...such as when I sold my BMW and the kid (that flew in to Ohio and drove back to Kansas) decided to NOT register the car and I get a call from a Kansas PD 8 months later.

[oldjeep]

16 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

Even if a state doesn't require a notary for the title (such as when I bought my Porsche in Texas that has an Arizona title), I still get a notarized bill of sale.  Protects me for proof I purchased it as a legit purchase (and if I get pulled over on the drive home).  Also protects me on a sale...such as when I sold my BMW and the kid (that flew in to Ohio and drove back to Kansas) decided to NOT register the car and I get a call from a Kansas PD 8 months later.

Here the seller hands you the title - which is your proof of ownership.  And the buyer fills out a corner of the title with their information on it - the seller goes to a state website and enters the information reporting the sale.  So even if the buyer never re-registers it you won't get that call.  Always interesting to see how different the process is in different states.

Edited May 16, 2023 by oldjeep

[Nitrousbird]

8 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Here the seller hands you the title - which is your proof of ownership.  And the buyer fills out a corner of the title with their information on it - the seller goes to a state website and enters the information reporting the sale.  So even if the buyer never re-registers it you won't get that call.  Always interesting to see how different the process is in different states.

The seller hands the title over here too, like most states.  But if you don't have a notarized title, someone could always claim you stole the vehicle AND title, then forged the info.  The notarization helps prevent that.  Also, even in Ohio with a notarized title, the bill of sale is a secondary proof in case anything comes up (and also spells out an as-is sale). 

As for the call, if the buyer never registers (and officially transfers the title into their name with their state), what proof do you have that it was actually sold?  You gave the buyer your only proof (the title) and have nothing but cash in your hand.  That bill of sale just protects you if the buyer does anything stupid later on.  It costs nothing but a sheet of paper you fill out to do a bill of sale and makes the transaction safer for both parties.   

[oldjeep]

Clearly your world is a lot more complex than mine.

[hunter77ah]

8 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Clearly your world is a lot more complex than mine.

Ohio people are sketchy....

[cowwboy]

22 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Here the seller hands you the title - which is your proof of ownership.  And the buyer fills out a corner of the title with their information on it - the seller goes to a state website and enters the information reporting the sale.  So even if the buyer never re-registers it you won't get that call.  Always interesting to see how different the process is in different states.

In Oklahoma we also have the tear off section on the title for the seller to file with the state to relinquish ownership.  

[JpCrOOked]

17 minutes ago, cowwboy said:

In Oklahoma we also have the tear off section on the title for the seller to file with the state to relinquish ownership.  

I've NOT done this and it's came back to bite me, don't ask how I know... Sold the car to a young girl in TX and she didn't register it, running red lights in Dallas and the cameras sent the tickets back to me.

[JasonK]

My dad sold a car long ago and the buyer never transferred title. The buyer left it abandoned on the road, and my dad had the legal responsibility to pay all fees, as told by a judge.