Used Boat Prices Falling

[IXFE]

13 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

... actually, the guy from Nevada avoided paying NV sales tax, which he would've paid had the deal been run through the dealer.  As a known master of frugality, I'm sure he saw it as a win.

I will add this… that only worked because at the time I lived in a state that was free of sales tax. That’s why I was willing to pull the boat back from the dealer and sell it privately to accommodate the Nevada buyer’s wishes to avoid sales tax. Doing so had no impact on me. 

If I lived in a sales tax state (like I do now) I would never have done that. 

in other words, that was a truly unique situation where the stars aligned for the Nevada buyer. 

[sidekicknicholas]

On 12/27/2022 at 10:33 AM, zrcrazy said:

So... your saying you can get a new 2022 LSV 23 for $130,000?

Got numbers back on the first boat and a leftover 2022 23 MXZ with a $251k sticker price is being offered at $180k (28.2% discount) ... I haven't negotiated at all besides "shoot me some numbers and I'll review".

Within 500 miles the only used 23MXZ are 2020 and range from $140-$160k... makes it tough to justify those used prices vs. new.

Edited January 5, 2023 by sidekicknicholas

[oldjeep]

44 minutes ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Within 500 miles the only used 23MXZ are 2020 and range from $140-$160k... makes it tough to justify those used prices vs. new.

Yeah, but this time of year in the frozen north most folks pull their boat ads.  They seem to place them again right around boat show time - so check back in 2 weeks

[NWBU]

5 hours ago, sidekicknicholas said:

Got numbers back on the first boat and a leftover 2022 23 MXZ with a $251k sticker price is being offered at $180k (28.2% discount) ... I haven't negotiated at all besides "shoot me some numbers and I'll review".

Within 500 miles the only used 23MXZ are 2020 and range from $140-$160k... makes it tough to justify those used prices vs. new.

Since you’re already looking at an MXZ, I’d suggest an M220 is going give you a similar interior but with better finishes and a much better wave. For a price that won’t be much different too.

[Michigan boarder]

We all see it.....we all see it.......

Shawn bought IXFE's boat!!!!

 

[jwl019]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:27 PM, Cole2001 said:

 

Im paying 12% sales tax so paying the tax on a small difference is a no brainer. 

Yikes, I thought my 10.45% was bad and probably close to the highest rate (some places in nearby Parishes have right at 11%)!

[Steve B.]

9 hours ago, jwl019 said:

Yikes, I thought my 10.45% was bad and probably close to the highest rate (some places in nearby Parishes have right at 11%)!

Wowza. Do you get breaks on other taxes ?

Steve B.

[Cole2001]

10 hours ago, jwl019 said:

Yikes, I thought my 10.45% was bad and probably close to the highest rate (some places in nearby Parishes have right at 11%)!

We also have a 20% luxury tax on the difference over 250K (Canadian) 

[Brantb]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:03 AM, wedge88 said:

GM HD trucks had zero incentives on Dec 1st and now I'm seeing $7K off and guessing $10K, on the 2023s when the 2024s start rolling out in spring.  Unfortunately my 2017 3500HD has also tanked about $7K in the month of December.  

Have any links for a deal like this? I have a 23 on order and am on the fence on getting it since it seems like deals will start popping up very soon

[IXFE]

11 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

We all see it.....we all see it.......

Shawn bought IXFE's boat!!!!

 

Hahahaha 😂😂😂😂

but no… 

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Hahahaha 😂😂😂😂

but no… 

i can dream tho...

[shawndoggy]

13 hours ago, Michigan boarder said:

We all see it.....we all see it.......

Shawn bought IXFE's boat!!!!

 

Haha it was a co-worker of mine who bought @IXFE's 2011.

On 1/5/2023 at 4:45 AM, IXFE said:

I will add this… that only worked because at the time I lived in a state that was free of sales tax. That’s why I was willing to pull the boat back from the dealer and sell it privately to accommodate the Nevada buyer’s wishes to avoid sales tax. Doing so had no impact on me. 

If I lived in a sales tax state (like I do now) I would never have done that. 

in other words, that was a truly unique situation where the stars aligned for the Nevada buyer. 

ICBW, but I think what matters is the tax regime in the buyer's state, not the seller's.  I've bought boats private party from states that I *think* charge their residents sales tax (CA, MI, TN) even on private party sales and haven't had to pay any sales tax myself.  EDIT: the only way I could see it mattering is if the seller is required to collect the sales tax on a PP sale (like a dealer is).  I don't think any states do that but again, ICBW.

Edited January 6, 2023 by shawndoggy

[wedge88]

4 hours ago, Brantb said:

Have any links for a deal like this? I have a 23 on order and am on the fence on getting it since it seems like deals will start popping up very soon

That was last week (year end).  Laura Buick GMC has always been the best place to go and they had $7k off but that included $2k year end incentive which was announced Tuesday 12/27.  I have been talking to 3 dealers and none of them will honor that incentive, but all had it available on 12/30.  I'm going to hold out for another month as I think end of January will be a great time to buy a 2023 as long as GM holds to production starting on the 2024s in February.  The fact that they are pulling back incentives tells me the 2024s will be delayed.

I will say that Laura Buick GMC shows 50+ GMC HDs but they include all customer orders on that.  They really only have a handful of trucks that aren't allocated.

Your order will be subject to any incentives at time of delivery.

Edited January 6, 2023 by wedge88

[rennis]

2 hours ago, wedge88 said:

That was last week (year end).  Laura Buick GMC has always been the best place to go and they had $7k off but that included $2k year end incentive which was announced Tuesday 12/27.  I have been talking to 3 dealers and none of them will honor that incentive, but all had it available on 12/30.  I'm going to hold out for another month as I think end of January will be a great time to buy a 2023 as long as GM holds to production starting on the 2024s in February.  The fact that they are pulling back incentives tells me the 2024s will be delayed.

I will say that Laura Buick GMC shows 50+ GMC HDs but they include all customer orders on that.  They really only have a handful of trucks that aren't allocated.

Your order will be subject to any incentives at time of delivery.

The Chevy and GMC dealers in my region are still charging >MSRP on most of their junk.  It's ridiculous.  I tell them they're idiots when they tell me I can't get MSRP on a vehicle I'm looking at (Tahoe RST) but then someone goes and buys their overpriced SUVs and trucks anyway.  It's lunacy. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by rennis

[IXFE]

5 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Haha it was a co-worker of mine who bought @IXFE's 2011.

ICBW, but I think what matters is the tax regime in the buyer's state, not the seller's.  I've bought boats private party from states that I *think* charge their residents sales tax (CA, MI, TN) even on private party sales and haven't had to pay any sales tax myself.  EDIT: the only way I could see it mattering is if the seller is required to collect the sales tax on a PP sale (like a dealer is).  I don't think any states do that but again, ICBW.

It matters to the seller in many states, just not in states like Oregon (no sales tax) or states like California (full sales tax regardless of trade in)...

In Texas, for example, I have to pay sales tax on my next boat, right? But if I have a trade-in, I only have to pay on the difference between the trade value of the old boat and the new boat price. Fortunately in Texas, sales tax on high value items like boats and cars is only 6.25%, but on wakeboats, this still ends up being a HUGE hit!  On my last flip it would have been over $10K. As you know, the flipping game is a game of cost avoidance, so NOT paying full sales tax each year is critical to making it pencil out. 

This is why all my boat sale transactions go through my dealer; that way my dealer can show my old boat as a trade-in on my new boat. Hopefully now you see why I take a hard line on this now... buyer doesn't like it, simple... he can find another boat.  Fortunately most buyers see it as a plus for them too.

[shawndoggy]

3 minutes ago, IXFE said:

It matters to the seller in many states, just not in states like Oregon (no sales tax) or states like California (full sales tax regardless of trade in)...

In Texas, for example, I have to pay sales tax on my next boat, right? But if I have a trade-in, I only have to pay on the difference between the trade value of the old boat and the new boat price. Fortunately in Texas, sales tax on high value items like boats and cars is only 6.25%, but on wakeboats, this still ends up being a HUGE hit!  On my last flip it would have been over $10K. As you know, the flipping game is a game of cost avoidance, so NOT paying full sales tax each year is critical to making it pencil out. 

This is why all my boat sale transactions go through my dealer; that way my dealer can show my old boat as a trade-in on my new boat. Hopefully now you see why I take a hard line on this now... buyer doesn't like it, simple... he can find another boat.  Fortunately most buyers see it as a plus for them too.

I gotcha.  middling the sales tax credit.

[mxmark4]

TN will get you on purchase but not on sale for taxes. I always ask for a bill of sale with a really low number on it if doing a private party sale just because I dont think its right to collect sales tax on an item that has already been sold and taxed.  Government double and triple dipping on sales tax everytime something is sold is robbery to me. 

[wdr]

They get their 7% luxury tax on toys. Not only my boat, but my RZR as well.

[Steve B.]

It may be more a state to state issue? I just go back to yes new prices and the deals getting them can be eye opening, but just as eye opening is used boat value. Our hobby seems like it is unique as far as long term value on luxury purchases. Now I'm gonna take that back ha, because there are many items that can see good valuation long term, hot rods, etc. Anyway, when you add in the value of enjoyment on the already good return, this niche of boating is a bargain to me.

Steve B.

[jwl019]

13 hours ago, Steve B. said:

Wowza. Do you get breaks on other taxes ?

Steve B.

We don't have a yearly luxury tax on anything, I guess that's a break!  We do have a yearly property tax (real estate).  For vehicles, we have a registration fee that is paid every 3-4 yrs iirc, and it is only around $50-75ish.  UTV's are not street legal, so usually only gets registered at purchase and not many people renew them later on. Boat registration every two years and it is based on length, and think it costs me $45-60 when those come around. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

We also have a 20% luxury tax on the difference over 250K (Canadian) 

Ouch!!

[wdr]

I can’t complain. TN doesn’t have a state income tax, but goods and services is 9.75%. Property tax currently is @ $2500 a year for 5 acres, 2700 sqft home and a stand alone 1200 sqft garage. UTVs are legal on basically county roads with a Class 1 license plate and is $95 a year like my truck. Boat registration is 2/3/4 years depending on what you want to pay with 3 years being the better deal @ $90.00.

[NWBU]

2 hours ago, Steve B. said:

Our hobby seems like it is unique as far as long term value on luxury purchases. Now I'm gonna take that back ha, because there are many items that can see good valuation long term, hot rods, etc. Anyway, when you add in the value of enjoyment on the already good return, this niche of boating is a bargain to me.

I think you’ll find there’s a number of other crazy passions that do better than many realize, even pre-Covid. Exotic car guys might have most of us boaters beat too. Much of the success in any hobby like that comes down to knowing your passion market inside and out. Oh and constrained production doesn’t hurt either.

[granddaddy55]

On 1/5/2023 at 10:20 PM, jwl019 said:

Yikes, I thought my 10.45% was bad and probably close to the highest rate (some places in nearby Parishes have right at 11%)!

“parishes”. where u from?, im in New Orleans but actually jefferson parish metairie

[jwl019]

13 minutes ago, granddaddy55 said:

“parishes”. where u from?, im in New Orleans but actually jefferson parish metairie

Ouachita parish, West Monroe. Home of the Duck Commander lol!

[granddaddy55]

3 minutes ago, jwl019 said:

Ouachita parish, West Monroe. Home of the Duck Commander lol!

well then unless buying new my argument in this thread holds true!!!!! for you and me if buying used, gotta luv a real boating state like LA, you can bet our legislators have ALL  purchased used boats,  double taxation is a crime to me!!!