Used Boat Prices Falling

[dwc032]

Well as stated in my earlier posts with prices here in the PNW, they’re still high and boats are moving. Heck I am trying to buy a new boat and they’re just not budging on prices, but want to completely rape me on trade in. And I have seen 5 boats in the last week on the local Malibu dealers Instagram being sold. So things are still moving in my neck of the woods. 

[theloungelife]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:29 PM, dizzygti said:

made/sold

Is this boats made or boats sold? 

If Malibu is dropping production to meet a lower demand I could see public prices not changing much.  That said, if there is inventory sitting at dealers then prices come down.  Looks like my local dealer has 29 new 2023 Axis/Malibu boats available.  Much more than any point in the past few years for a previous season new boat.  

[The Hulk]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:29 PM, dizzygti said:

Numbers for Q1 2024 ending 3/31 and reported out late April/early May will be VERY telling.   Again, not so much in the overall profitability of Malibu, but an indicator of where this "ship" is headed.  

 

Much lower 

[SouthsideBoarder]

Well at least in our area. Boat prices remain high and still selling. Used and new car prices still high and selling. Home prices high and still selling. Home taxes up 20% this year. Wages not increasing much to meet all of the craziness. Either everyone is financed to the gills or many of us chose the wrong profession.

 

[MikeR397]

3 hours ago, SouthsideBoarder said:

Well at least in our area. Boat prices remain high and still selling. Used and new car prices still high and selling. Home prices high and still selling. Home taxes up 20% this year. Wages not increasing much to meet all of the craziness. Either everyone is financed to the gills or many of us chose the wrong profession.

 

Exactly how I feel waiting all of 2022 and 2023 to buy a substantial market position, but stonks never gonna drop (until I buy) lol. 
 

thankfully we have a property tax cap of 3% max a year. I pay $20k now in our home of 10 years, but without this cap they would have me paying $52,500 or so based on their assessed, but not taxable, value. Best thing I ever did when buying a home. Never moving.  

Edited February 3 by MikeR397

[justgary]

1 hour ago, MikeR397 said:

I pay $20k now in our home of 10 years, but without this cap they would have me paying $52,500 or so based on their assessed, but not taxable, value.

Huh?  Is this a normal house, or a mansion?  If it is a mansion, good for you for "making it!"

We pay 3.8308 mil here, so $383.08 per $100,000 assessed value (minus exemptions).  A house would have to appraise for about $5.2M to pay $20k tax here.  Lucky for most of us, plenty of doctors and lawyers from Atlanta own enormous homes on the beach, so they do pay that much.  It does keep the rest of us in a quite reasonable state of taxation.

[MikeR397]

3 hours ago, justgary said:

Huh?  Is this a normal house, or a mansion?  If it is a mansion, good for you for "making it!"

We pay 3.8308 mil here, so $383.08 per $100,000 assessed value (minus exemptions).  A house would have to appraise for about $5.2M to pay $20k tax here.  Lucky for most of us, plenty of doctors and lawyers from Atlanta own enormous homes on the beach, so they do pay that much.  It does keep the rest of us in a quite reasonable state of taxation.

I just looked up a $5.2M house here and property taxes are $94,459 in Oakland County MI. Our house is assessed a little under half that (which I don’t necessarily agree with), but our taxable value is around $900k thankfully due to the 3% cap since we bought it in 2013. They would be lower but we did a 4 car addition and 800sqft of more living space recently that just plopped another $5500 or so a year more into the tax man’s pocket. 

https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator

I cannot fathom $1M in property taxes over a 10yr period lol. Would be time to move. 

Edited February 4 by MikeR397

[justgary]

15 hours ago, MikeR397 said:

I just looked up a $5.2M house here and property taxes are $94,459 in Oakland County MI. Our house is assessed a little under half that (which I don’t necessarily agree with), but our taxable value is around $900k thankfully due to the 3% cap since we bought it in 2013. They would be lower but we did a 4 car addition and 800sqft of more living space recently that just plopped another $5500 or so a year more into the tax man’s pocket. 

https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator

I cannot fathom $1M in property taxes over a 10yr period lol. Would be time to move. 

And a 6% sales tax, and 4.25% income tax.  Wow. 

I know that Florida generates about 80% of its revenue from the 6% sales tax (plus generally 1% local option sales tax), and a lot of that is from tourists.  It also seems that Florida's budget is almost 50% more than Michigan's ($118B vs $81B or so).  I had no idea how much some people pay in taxes.

[MikeR397]

4 hours ago, justgary said:

And a 6% sales tax, and 4.25% income tax.  Wow. 

I know that Florida generates about 80% of its revenue from the 6% sales tax (plus generally 1% local option sales tax), and a lot of that is from tourists.  It also seems that Florida's budget is almost 50% more than Michigan's ($118B vs $81B or so).  I had no idea how much some people pay in taxes.

plus Uncle Sam gets 30% of the pie before the state even comes a knocking! and the sellers pay a property transfer tax too! 

At least it’s not California! I don’t feel 4.25% income tax is all that horrible, and we did choose a higher property tax area to live to get good public schools for our 3 kids. 500 yards to the north of me is substantially lower tax rates on homes, but a substantially lower rated school district. Also, we wanted to be on the water so choices get limited real fast and concessions must be made. Like I said though, I’m just thankful we have a cap on how fast property taxes can grow and we’re fortunate to buy our forever home in low market prices in 2013 and not have to move later when we needed a bigger house. 

[IXFE]

On 2/3/2024 at 3:07 PM, theloungelife said:

Is this boats made or boats sold? 

It’s the same thing to Malibu. They don’t make boats that aren’t already sold (to a dealer). Malibu doesn’t carry any “finished goods” inventory.

That’s why you hear them on the earnings call speak about “channel inventory” which is code for boats sitting on dealer lots (that the dealers “own” or are paying flooring interest on to a 3rd party bank). 

[IXFE]

Oh, and there’s this. But I’m sure it’s all gonna work out fine… 

[dizzygti]

9 minutes ago, IXFE said:

But I’m sure it’s all gonna work out fine… 

 

Yeah....that last one is the scary one.   

[carguy79ta]

On 1/27/2024 at 8:29 PM, spikew919 said:

A little food for thought comparing wage to home prices during Great Depression and today. 

Not disagreeing with skyrocketing prices and the fact that some areas with their minimum wages are more than I made as a newly grad civil engineer but home SIZES have increased as well from approx 1000sf to 2600sf as well. 

https://www.darrinqualman.com/house-size/

I looked at other sites and most of them concurr. One site said that home size only increased 20% in the last 120 years but I'm not buying that. 

[oldjeep]

6 minutes ago, carguy79ta said:

Not disagreeing with skyrocketing prices and the fact that some areas with their minimum wages are more than I made as a newly grad civil engineer but home SIZES have increased as well from approx 1000sf to 2600sf as well. 

https://www.darrinqualman.com/house-size/

I looked at other sites and most of them concurr. One site said that home size only increased 20% in the last 120 years but I'm not buying that. 

The cubic feet ads a lot of cost too   Your average post war house (or even my late 60's house) has 8 ft ceilings.  

[carguy79ta]

14 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

The cubic feet ads a lot of cost too   Your average post war house (or even my late 60's house) has 8 ft ceilings.  

Ya I helped my buddy drywall his 2600sf ranch last fall and he has 10ft ceilings...

[dshack]

Just to provide a data point, we bought our 2019 Malibu 22 LSV in September 2022 with ~100 hours for $100K. Just sold it today with ~230 hours for $95K. Maybe the sky isn't falling (yet?).

[Sixer]

1 hour ago, dshack said:

Just to provide a data point, we bought our 2019 Malibu 22 LSV in September 2022 with ~100 hours for $100K. Just sold it today with ~230 hours for $95K. Maybe the sky isn't falling (yet?).

And you doubled your $95k to pay for the new 23 LSV I'm guessing?  I get it, you didn't lose (much) on the 22 LSV, but it probably cost twice as much to go 1 foot longer, and 5 years newer.  Inflation is ridiculous!  Hopefully a good investment!

[dwc032]

1 hour ago, Sixer said:

And you doubled your $95k to pay for the new 23 LSV I'm guessing?  I get it, you didn't lose (much) on the 22 LSV, but it probably cost twice as much to go 1 foot longer, and 5 years newer.  Inflation is ridiculous!  Hopefully a good investment!

I think we all know boats are horrible investments…lol  But the smile it brings the family is worth it!!

[dshack]

20 hours ago, Sixer said:

And you doubled your $95k to pay for the new 23 LSV I'm guessing?  I get it, you didn't lose (much) on the 22 LSV, but it probably cost twice as much to go 1 foot longer, and 5 years newer.  Inflation is ridiculous!  Hopefully a good investment!

Lol of course it isn't a good investment! No boat is. But, I'm pretty happy with what it took to upgrade, definitely wasn't close to double. And going from monsoon 409 to m6 which should be a fairly significant difference at our elevation. 

 

Edit to add: I changed my mind at the last second and decided to bump up to the LT4. Pay once, cry once...especially when we regularly boat at >6k'. Now I definitely am getting a little closer to 2x. Yolo, right?

Edited February 9 by dshack

[formulaben]

I still believe a boat can be an excellent value proposition when you consider the priceless memories and experiences it provides.  Some things simply can't be entered into the spreadsheet and ROI calculator. 

[MikeR397]

4 hours ago, Sixer said:

And you doubled your $95k to pay for the new 23 LSV I'm guessing?  I get it, you didn't lose (much) on the 22 LSV, but it probably cost twice as much to go 1 foot longer, and 5 years newer.  Inflation is ridiculous!  Hopefully a good investment!

Ya out of principle I’m about to boycotte new big purchases. Not bc I can’t afford it, I’m just disgusted with the inflation and feel like I want to put my foot down

[MikeR397]

3 hours ago, dwc032 said:

I think we all know boats are horrible investments…lol  But the smile it brings the family is worth it!!

Totally agree. I’m just not sure the smile count is any different on a 23lsv for $190k vs a 22 axis for $125k. 

[Surf4FamFun]

15 hours ago, carguy79ta said:

Not disagreeing with skyrocketing prices and the fact that some areas with their minimum wages are more than I made as a newly grad civil engineer but home SIZES have increased as well from approx 1000sf to 2600sf as well. 

https://www.darrinqualman.com/house-size/

I looked at other sites and most of them concurr. One site said that home size only increased 20% in the last 120 years but I'm not buying that. 

Other than size  which is a huge driver there are other things that are different.  Depending on where you lived and when the house was built it might or might not have indoor bathrooms, electricity, running water, poor to no insulation, very drafty (air leakage around windows etc) which.  Would be heated by fireplace, or a heater that burned wood/coal, or by steam radiator(s) (not one in every room), no AC for sure.  

Relatively few rooms.  Knew a guy who was talking to his mother in-law who probably was born in the early 19xx's and the topic of how she learned about sex came up.  She said she did not have to learn, that there was only one room in the house and she had six siblings.  I think we can deduce that she was not the youngest.

My father was born in the early 1930's, house was built in 1913, this was in rural SC. Have to remember that a much higher percentage of people in that time lived in rural areas.  He remembered when he was 9+ electricity came and they retrofitted the house, for a long time I had a light fixture made from an oil lantern that was from the living room.  We lived there in the late 1970's when we moved back while the new house was being built.  The two bathrooms had been added outside of the original house footprint, one on a porch so you had to walk outside on the screen porch to gain entry.  In really cold weather you had to leave the little gas heater running so the toilet did not freeze.  No matter heater or not the seat was brutal in the winter.

My mother's mother was from a reasonably well off family in Boston, but in public school.  She said in the winter the kids brought coal from home to heat the school room.

People need food and shelter to live.  The homes of the depression era were more than just shelter, what we have today is off the scale past just shelter.  Truthfully you could not build a house as crude as most depression era homes for human habitation and have it considered suitable for a person to live in.  Not talking to code, just something people would accept.

Yes, I remember $.10 hamburgers, $.15 cheeseburgers, and when you were lucky the cheese burgers were $.10 too.

All this to say that it is really hard to compare the before when it was so different.

[Surf4FamFun]

56 minutes ago, formulaben said:

I still believe a boat can be an excellent value proposition when you consider the priceless memories and experiences it provides.  Some things simply can't be entered into the spreadsheet and ROI calculator. 

The older I get the more inclined I am to spend money on things that make memories rather than things that you have to pay taxes on or maintain.

[electricjohn]

On 2/8/2024 at 11:18 PM, formulaben said:

I still believe a boat can be an excellent value proposition when you consider the priceless memories and experiences it provides.  Some things simply can't be entered into the spreadsheet and ROI calculator. 

Exactly, I think we got, and still get many memories out of my 1970 runabout which set me back $2900, 55 years ago. Works out to 76 cents an hour and dropping each additional hour (currently 3800+). 1970 & resent>>>

Edited February 10 by electricjohn