Battery upgrade 2022 m240

[MLA]

3 hours ago, RCorsa said:

I know things like the auto bilge and the gx tower have some parasitic drain

The auto bilge will not be a parasitic draw. It can be a draw if rain or lake water is entering the bilge resulting on the pump coming one, but not a parasitic. 

 

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but my thinking is when the battery is switched on the system should show between 13-14v rather than 12v? 

A new, good battery with full charge at rest, is usually 12.8. volt. 13+ is typically engine running range. It may not seem like much, but those tenths of a volt actually mean a lot. 

[csleaver]

I have found a loose cable on the thruster 250 amp breaker in the port rear storage compartment breaker panel can cause problems.  .

When the engine is started, or after using a very heavy load (like the thruster), it can take up to two minutes for the VSR to close and provide charging power to the house bank.  Temporarily putting the battery switch in the combined position can help in many cases. 

[shawndoggy]

5 hours ago, RCorsa said:

So I used a voltmeter as each battery was at between 11.2-11.4 after sitting on the built in trickle charger overnight. I read how these deka batteries can start failing in under a year.  My boat was delivered from the factory in September of last year.  However, I waited on actually picking up the boat from the dealer until  March of this year since our season ends in September/October anyway.  I wonder if all that sitting damaged them so now they won’t hold a charge?  I assume the dealer had them on a charger but I assume its possible they did not 

Lithium batteries ain’t gonna fix that. You need to figure out why your batteries are dead. 

what’s the voltage at the battery charger leads when it’s plugged in?  Voltage at the alternator when the boat is running (after you get a jump start, obvs)?

11.2 is beyond depleted. There’s no way all three batteries fail in unison with fewer than 6 months of actual use. 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

What charger are you using? I had a “smart” charger off of Amazon that I thought was doing a good job until I installed the noco in our boat. Now it is plugged in every time and I’m seeing the most consistent voltage I’ve seen in our boat. 12.8 at first key on, 13.8-14 while running. 

[RCorsa]

I’m just using the one built in to the boat from the factory.  There is a plug in the port front storage that I can hook up for the 110 outlet my dock has.  Granted it’s possible that is not even working or hooked up.   Talked to service manager and he mentioned: 

“We also noticed when we received some Malibu's from the factory, they had varying battery switch and ACR setups for the battery charging system. This was due to parts scarcity at the time, mostly due to Covid supply chain issues.”

So he thinks maybe my charging system needs to be replaced 

[smileysteve]

19 hours ago, atLakeSantee said:

The pair of deep cycles wired together should be expected to need replaced every 1-2 years because the two will degrade each other when not being charged.

It seems like this could be prevented most basically with a battery switch, and a bit more sophisticated with a timer relay?

[shawndoggy]

19 hours ago, atLakeSantee said:

The pair of deep cycles wired together should be expected to need replaced every 1-2 years because the two will degrade each other when not being charged.

 

Why?  Isn’t it just one big battery?

[MLA]

If 2 batteries start out as the same age, type and size, and stay wired together as one, they will act as one and will not degrade each other. Use and maintenance may have them needing replacement 1-2 year though. 

[shawndoggy]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:38 AM, RCorsa said:

“We also noticed when we received some Malibu's from the factory, they had varying battery switch and ACR setups for the battery charging system. This was due to parts scarcity at the time, mostly due to Covid supply chain issues.”

That smells a little bs-y to me, but I'm just a dude on the interwebs.  Usually a charger is connected to the batteries or it's not.  AFAIK, there isn't an extra part involved.  Same goes for the ACR... it's either inline between the two banks or it isn't.  

I hope you were able to get your boat started and the batteries recharged?

[RCorsa]

I’m out of town until this Thursday so the boat has been on the charger since last Friday.  I’ll check it then and if still showing a low voltage probably replace the batteries and make a service appointment.  

[PopsA22]

11 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

I’m out of town until this Thursday so the boat has been on the charger since last Friday.  I’ll check it then and if still showing a low voltage probably replace the batteries and make a service appointment.  

I had a factory installed Pro Mariner onboard charger in my boat that had failed on year two.  I didn't' realize this until I was on a launch ramp with two dead batteries.  I speculate that the charger never worked for me.  I always plugged it in, but never looked at the lights because it was tucked away in a small space under my front port seat.  Malibu did warranty this charger with a different brand but I didn't like it so I replace with NOCO brand that Shawndoggy uses.  

[RCorsa]

Can you send a link.  If my batteries are totally full I guess I could try this before spending 600-700 on new batteries 

[shawndoggy]

20 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

Can you send a link.  If my batteries are totally full I guess I could try this before spending 600-700 on new batteries 

10x2 would be sufficient but you have three separate batteries, so go 10x3 to be safe.

NOCO Genius GENPRO10X3, 3-Bank, 30-Amp (10-Amp Per Bank) Fully-Automatic Smart Marine Charger, 12V Onboard Battery Charger, Battery Maintainer and Battery Desulfator with Temperature Compensation https://a.co/d/3tuENhL

[Brandonloos21]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

10x2 would be sufficient but you have three separate batteries, so go 10x3 to be safe.

NOCO Genius GENPRO10X3, 3-Bank, 30-Amp (10-Amp Per Bank) Fully-Automatic Smart Marine Charger, 12V Onboard Battery Charger, Battery Maintainer and Battery Desulfator with Temperature Compensation https://a.co/d/3tuENhL

Do you think that the NOCO would work properly while putting 2 of the leads to one bank (the bank with 2 batteries)?

 

Im assuming he is running 2 banks, 1 bank with 2 batteries (house), and the other bank with 1 cranking battery. 

[shawndoggy]

34 minutes ago, Brandonloos21 said:

Do you think that the NOCO would work properly while putting 2 of the leads to one bank (the bank with 2 batteries)?

 

Im assuming he is running 2 banks, 1 bank with 2 batteries (house), and the other bank with 1 cranking battery. 

Yes -- the manual says that it will support 230Ah per charger, and from what I can find on the interwebs, @RCorsa's G31 Deka Marine Master Deep Cycles are 105 Ah apiece. 

The charger can't tell that there are two cells, since it's wired in parallel.  That said a 10A charger would likely be a bit slow with 2x group 31s.  And it's an M240 with misters in the tower -- No skimping!

(but on my A24 I have no problem with running a 2x10 with one of the charger leads going to a paralleled set of cells)

Edited July 26, 2022 by shawndoggy

[Dirtysidedown]

Don’t think there is any need for a 3 Bank charger. My NOCO 10x2 is perfect.   Got to think of the 2 parallel batteries as 1 large battery 

[Casey211]

I have 6 batteries on my 2022 25 LSV.  Two 65ah Full River batteries which came with the boat, and then I run four 100ah Battle Born lithium batteries.  I have a pretty large stereo and even on the hardest bass hits I've never seen my batteries drop below 12.4 volts.  You need to charge the batteries a controller though or else you'll burn up your alternator since there's much less resistance when charging lithiums, but your batteries will charge five times faster than even a high end AGM. They are much more expensive initially, but I never have to worry about over-discharging since the built-in battery management system shuts them down at 3% remaining capacity. Do some simple math and you'll quickly see lithiums are way better for your wallet over the long run. Sure, you might lose a little weight, but that isn't really a concern of mine.  

[RCorsa]

This is super helpful @shawndoggy. I to know the built in charger is likely a. Similar set up but maybe a different brand.  I’ll have to unscrew the port side bow storage to take a look as all I can see is the plug in port in the wall.   
 

@Casey211how did you pick your lithium batteries if I was going to charge out my two parallel house batteries from the g31 Dekas that’s are wired in parallel.  Honestly at this point I just want the boat to work great without all these electrical issues/low voltage issues and if I have to spent a bit of $ to do so that’s fine.  Our season is so short it’s worth it to me.  Probably only 6-8 weeks left before the boat is put away for the season 

[MLA]

1 hour ago, Dirtysidedown said:

Don’t think there is any need for a 3 Bank charger. My NOCO 10x2 is perfect.   Got to think of the 2 parallel batteries as 1 large battery 

Yes, but that large bank now needs a higher output charger then the smaller one battery bank. So 10A to each single battery banks is good, but 10A to a large bank made of 2 batteries in parallel may not be enough. 

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, MLA said:

Yes, but that large bank now needs a higher output charger then the smaller one battery bank. So 10A to each single battery banks is good, but 10A to a large bank made of 2 batteries in parallel may not be enough. 

The NOCO manual says each 10A output can handle up to 230 Ah.  the OP's two G31 deep cycles are 105 apiece, so 210.  Within spec, but would take a while to recharge if fully discharged.  One lead for each battery would definitely be better.

[MLA]

Just now, shawndoggy said:

The NOCO manual says each 10A output can handle up to 230 Ah.  the OP's two G31 deep cycles are 105 apiece, so 210.  Within spec, but would take a while to recharge if fully discharged.  One lead for each battery would definitely be better.

Their 10A is the same as everyone else 10A is still 10A and a bit on the light side to recharge a large and depleted bank. An amp output in the 10% range of the bank's total Ah gives you plenty of juice to desulfate ( especially if its a wet cell) a deeply discharged bank. So a 10A x 3 would be on the money. The other concern is how hard the charger is working. A larger charger, with more output and more heat-sink, will not work as hard as a smaller charger. This can mean longer charger life span. 

[atLakeSantee]

Regarding wiring batteries in parallel for same voltage and twice the current/reserve...

On 7/23/2022 at 3:04 PM, smileysteve said:

It seems like this could be prevented most basically with a battery switch, and a bit more sophisticated with a timer relay?

Yes; using a manual battery switch or an automatic combiner would prevent the negative affect of wiring batteries in parallel.  Not a problem having them wired together during charging or while discharging (using them).  The issue of parallel wired is when not using them!

On 7/23/2022 at 3:18 PM, shawndoggy said:

Why?  Isn’t it just one big battery?

Two batteries only act as one big battery if wired in series for twice the voltage.  Two 6 volt batteries work great to provide 12 volts; the two 6 volts would cleanly provide twice the power of the single battery; this is what golf carts do that are 36 volt or 48 volt.  If two batteries of same rated voltage are wired together in parallel (negative-to-negative & positive-to-positive) without a load or without being charged, then they are fighting to maintain exactly one voltage level.  One battery will be a small fraction of a volt less than the other due to physics of temperature, aging, and specific gravity (of the acid).  This small difference in voltage causes the higher voltage battery to trickle current into the lower pulling down the higher and getting soaked up as heat in the lower until they become exactly equal; next day the opposite battery may be stronger and donate its power to the weaker again being converted to heat rather than charging the lower.  After dozens of days of this weaker battery pulling down the stronger, they both become weaker.

The correct way to resolve the issue is either using a battery switch (ideally automatic combiner switch) OR use a pair of 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series for the needed 12 volts.  A pair of 6 volt AGM golf cart batteries connected for 12 volts would give great service!

[Brandonloos21]

14 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

Yes -- the manual says that it will support 230Ah per charger, and from what I can find on the interwebs, @RCorsa's G31 Deka Marine Master Deep Cycles are 105 Ah apiece. 

The charger can't tell that there are two cells, since it's wired in parallel.  That said a 10A charger would likely be a bit slow with 2x group 31s.  And it's an M240 with misters in the tower -- No skimping!

(but on my A24 I have no problem with running a 2x10 with one of the charger leads going to a paralleled set of cells)

What I’m wondering specifically is would it be okay to run 2 leads off of the 3x10 to two cells that are paralleled? That way we get 20A charging to the back rather than 10A?

[shawndoggy]

40 minutes ago, Brandonloos21 said:

What I’m wondering specifically is would it be okay to run 2 leads off of the 3x10 to two cells that are paralleled? That way we get 20A charging to the back rather than 10A?

From the NOCO support page:

[Casey211]

39 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

This is super helpful @shawndoggy. I to know the built in charger is likely a. Similar set up but maybe a different brand.  I’ll have to unscrew the port side bow storage to take a look as all I can see is the plug in port in the wall.   
 

@Casey211how did you pick your lithium batteries if I was going to charge out my two parallel house batteries from the g31 Dekas that’s are wired in parallel.  Honestly at this point I just want the boat to work great without all these electrical issues/low voltage issues and if I have to spent a bit of $ to do so that’s fine.  Our season is so short it’s worth it to me.  Probably only 6-8 weeks left before the boat is put away for the season 

What do you mean, how did I pick my lithium batteries?