2004 Wakesetter VLX - Stalling & Surging

[Smooth]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-11840-7-Universal-10-Micron-Fuel-Water-Separator-Filter-Kit-with-Double-Gasket/11071204?

The mount on this filter system looks better than the one I got because it will go flush up against the top of the back seat area where the fuel tank is located.

https://www.academy.com/p/marine-raider-fuel-filter-water-separator-kit?sku=black

This is the one I have but I modified it by cutting the top hole off with a hacksaw so it would set higher on the side wall.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F7ANK7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BPZ55Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Add this blower to the top of your engine compartment and thank me later.

[Smooth]

 

[paulhey]

2 hours ago, Smooth said:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-11840-7-Universal-10-Micron-Fuel-Water-Separator-Filter-Kit-with-Double-Gasket/11071204?

The mount on this filter system looks better than the one I got because it will go flush up against the top of the back seat area where the fuel tank is located.

https://www.academy.com/p/marine-raider-fuel-filter-water-separator-kit?sku=black

This is the one I have but I modified it by cutting the top hole off with a hacksaw so it would set higher on the side wall.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F7ANK7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BPZ55Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Add this blower to the top of your engine compartment and thank me later.

Appreciate it! (Saving the thanks for later) 
 

 

[paulhey]

2 hours ago, Smooth said:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-11840-7-Universal-10-Micron-Fuel-Water-Separator-Filter-Kit-with-Double-Gasket/11071204?

The mount on this filter system looks better than the one I got because it will go flush up against the top of the back seat area where the fuel tank is located.

https://www.academy.com/p/marine-raider-fuel-filter-water-separator-kit?sku=black

This is the one I have but I modified it by cutting the top hole off with a hacksaw so it would set higher on the side wall.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F7ANK7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BPZ55Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Add this blower to the top of your engine compartment and thank me later.

Curious where you mounted the top blower.   And did you just power it to the same line as the lower blower?

[Smooth]

I actually have the blower turned around and blowing outside air directly onto the ECM trying to keep it cool as possible. I had already cut some of the cowling out that encased my ECM thinking the heat would rise and escape that area but the engine would sputter and stall, even with that modification. Once I directed the air flow over the ECM and toward the engine top, things are running much better. I'm not sure you need to do all of what I've done and thinking that drawing the top heat will have enough air circulating over the top area of the engine. I have also read other forums, that say running the blower will prevent vapor lock and gets them going again. Not sure it's vapor lock or the ECM overheating but I am sure air circulating over the TOP of the engine is good.

[paulhey]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:07 AM, justgary said:

I'm not a fan of changing parts without proper diagnosis, but it wouldn't hurt in this case to change the ignition module under the distributor cap.  They are heat sensitive and can have very funky symptoms when they go bad.  Clean the plate well and use plenty of thermal grease under the new one.  You should be able to get one from a big box store by asking about a 1999 GM pickup with a 5.7L.

Just saw a couple of posts that referenced changing the coil at the same time changing and ICM. Any thoughts there? If agree - same path on the coil in terms of auto equivalent?

[Smooth]

USB fan is just about worthless but the pipe supplies good cool air from a bilge air blower about 175 CFM over the top of ECM and underneath the distributor cap and heat sink for the ignition control module.

 

 

[Smooth]

Second blower will pull hot air out and will run when fuel pump runs by triggering a relay switch.

 

 

[paulhey]

Thanks @Smooth  Nice to be able to see exactly where you placed the fans. I’ll be sure to report back after I finish my next steps. 

[paulhey]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:07 AM, justgary said:

I'm not a fan of changing parts without proper diagnosis, but it wouldn't hurt in this case to change the ignition module under the distributor cap.  They are heat sensitive and can have very funky symptoms when they go bad.  Clean the plate well and use plenty of thermal grease under the new one.  You should be able to get one from a big box store by asking about a 1999 GM pickup with a 5.7L.

@justgary The ICM for the 1999 is not the same form factor/type. Those show up as VIN R. Single connector. The 1995 is VIN K and the form factor seems correct - dual connectors. Typo on the 99 or am I missing something?

[justgary]

On 8/10/2022 at 12:07 PM, paulhey said:

@justgary The ICM for the 1999 is not the same form factor/type. Those show up as VIN R. Single connector. The 1995 is VIN K and the form factor seems correct - dual connectors. Typo on the 99 or am I missing something?

No typo, mostly a memory game.  If it isn't the right one, make the parts guy earn his pay and find the one you need.  Get the one that looks correct.

[paulhey]

For those of you following along or those in the future who might be reading - here's where things stand. 
 

First: I solved the fuel line leak. The connector on the fuel distribution block is a JIC-6. I have learned that is the same as an AN-6 -- which means it is a 37 degree connection. I was also able to find out that there are copper compression gaskets that are designed to solve such leaks. I purchased a SECO 6, learning that the 6 aligns to the JIC-6. Leak solved. 
 

Next step - additional parts on order to try and solve this. 
 

Ignition Control Module - Chose Standard Motor Products LX340. 
 

Ignition Coil - Standard Motor Products DR-37.  Not certain it's in the cards for needing replaced, but I read in a couple of places that an ICM and it make sense to replace at the same time, and it's a $20 part. 
 

Ordered both of those through Rock Auto. For both of those - the 1995 Chevy C1500 pickup with the 5.7L matches with the 2004 Monsoon I have. 
 

Next up - fuel injectors.  After some research, I discovered that the Fuel Injector 4 BAR (EV-14),Part Number 636050 were mine.  After a 10% discount, they were around $200 for 8. I also learned that the injectors in my engine had been rebuilt a few years ago.  For that price - why rebuild again when I could buy new. 
 

Finally - new fuel lines. 1/2" and 3/8" to make all new from the fuel tank. 
 

Plan on tackling the replacement of all those and will report out. I'm toying with the idea of an incremental part swap to help better isolate the root cause --- but I need to balance that against time available. 😊

[paulhey]

And - I'm going to look into the possible placement of an additional fan to exhaust heat and/or cool components. 

[paulhey]

Part Number Question. 
 

Having not ever removed the plenum myself, I got to thinking that it might be good to have a ready spare of the gasket in the event the existing one gets torn during removal as I work the fuel injector replacement. 
 

Can anyone confirm the part number? Reminder that mine is a 5.7L Malibu PFI/Monsoon.  

Edited August 13, 2022 by paulhey
Clarity

[justgary]

The gasket is rubber and reusable.  You might find that it is stuck down pretty good.  If so, just man up and hit it with your purse.

[paulhey]

23 hours ago, justgary said:

The gasket is rubber and reusable.  You might find that it is stuck down pretty good.  If so, just man up and hit it with your purse.

I shall strive to do so. 

Anyone happen to know the size of the hex bolts? Not in town to see the boat, but can pick up the necessary tool while I'm away to keep the trips during this project to less than 3. 

[justgary]

5 hours ago, paulhey said:

I shall strive to do so. 

Anyone happen to know the size of the hex bolts? Not in town to see the boat, but can pick up the necessary tool while I'm away to keep the trips during this project to less than 3. 

They should be socket head screws, so a good Allen set will do.  I don't remember if they are SAE or metric.

[paulhey]

Incremental progress - coil, ignition control module, and fuel lines replaced. Engine starts and revs up fine. 

I plan to tackle the injector replacement tomorrow.  

Questions;

1) Do I need to remove the high pressure fuel line from the fuel rail for this job, or can I leave it attached? Asking, because I do not have the removal tool. 

2) When reseating the new fuel injectors - use engine oil to lube the o-rings?

Thx. 

[paulhey]

On 8/14/2022 at 3:59 PM, justgary said:

They should be socket head screws, so a good Allen set will do.  I don't remember if they are SAE or metric.

Turns out to be 1/4". 

[Bozboat]

24 minutes ago, paulhey said:

Incremental progress - coil, ignition control module, and fuel lines replaced. Engine starts and revs up fine. 

I plan to tackle the injector replacement tomorrow.  

Questions;

1) Do I need to remove the high pressure fuel line from the fuel rail for this job, or can I leave it attached? Asking, because I do not have the removal tool. 

2) When reseating the new fuel injectors - use engine oil to lube the o-rings?

Thx. 

1) use the schrader valve on the high pressure fuel line to relieve the fuel pressure, I left the high pressure line attached, use shop towels to catch any spilled fuel and to block the openings into the intake manifold from swallowing anything.  Watch for the metal spacers on the screws that hold the rails in place and catch them.

2) I don't recall using anything to lubricate the o rings.

[paulhey]

Thanks. 

So I am about to lose my mind with this thing. Fired it back up. Put it in neutral and pushed up the RPMs for than I did last time. 
 

Idles fine. 
1000 rpm - fine

1300 - fine

1700 - fine

2000 - fine

Around 2300 RPM - starts to go up and down. At 2300 down to around 1600 and back up and down.  

This is with everything new but the injectors. What the heck?

I think I got the right parts?? Sigh. 
 

Packing up for the evening. Ideas?

[paulhey]

I'll add that the engine "surging" up and down when I got to 2300 is smooth. Not a rough stumble - up to 2300, then down, then rev back up, and then down.

And this behavior showed up when first started - not like it worked fine and then started acting up when it got warm. 
 

Perhaps the gameplan of replacing the injectors is still sound. Just wanted to pass along the observations from today to see if that changes any recommendations. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by paulhey

[Bozboat]

Did you tackle the fuel injectors today or is that tomorrow?

 

what did you work on before this new symptom 

 

 

If you removed and replaced fuel injectors today, I would be looking for a vacuum leak, do you hear any hissing sounds? Like a fuel injector without an o ring?    is the throttle control valve connected or did the electrical connection come off ? If this is a new symptom, it is likely something that got disconnected when you were working on the fuel injectors. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Bozboat

[paulhey]

22 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

I would be looking for a vacuum leak, do you hear any hissing sounds? Like a fuel injector without an o ring?    is the throttle control valve connected or did the electrical connection come off ? If this is a new symptom, it is likely something that got disconnected when you were working on the fuel injectors. 

The only thing I did today was replace the fuel lines (between fuel pump and tank - nothing high pressure), the ignition control module, and the coil. 
 

I have not touched anything else. 
 

I'm not sure I would say that this is a new symptom. Looking back in how it behaved the last time I had it in the water, this revving up and down when around 2300 RPM is what it was doing. 
 

I have never tried slowly ramping up the RMP before other than the last time on the water and now. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by paulhey

[Bozboat]

Have you checked the fuel pressure ?   Maybe the fuel pump is sucking air into the line near the area of the leak repair posted friday describing a fix next to a fuel distribution block?

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Bozboat