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T23


Msudogs93

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Just bought a 21 T23. I’ve had it out twice to practice before heavy boating season. I’m not a surfer, but kids and friends are.  They say the boat doesn’t push them enough.  I’ve tried filling all ballasts(factory) and lowering wedge to 6.  Any tricks or do I need to get additional bags? I thought about maybe emptying the bow ballast, but I think it is malfunctioning. When I push the button once, it starts pumping water out like it is already full. When I push it again to empty, nothing happens. I’m taking it back for that. 

Edited by Msudogs93
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7 minutes ago, Msudogs93 said:

Just bought a 21 T23. I’ve had it out twice to practice before heavy boating season. I’m not a surfer, but kids and friends are.  They say the boat doesn’t push them enough.  I’ve tried filling all ballasts(factory) and lowering wedge to 6.  Any tricks or do I need to get additional bags? I thought about maybe emptying the bow ballast, but I think it is malfunctioning. When I push the button once, it starts pumping water out like it is already full. When I push it again to empty, nothing happens. I’m taking it back for that. 

Do you have pnp bags in rear lockers?

Sounds like fill pump on front ballast isn't working.  Tank/ bag is probably full and vents when fill pump is turned on.  I don't have an axis so not sure of the ballast configuration.  Is front a tank or bag?

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the reply. The bow ballast appears to be a tank as I can’t see a bag anywhere.  I don’t have the pnp and that’s what I thought it may come down to.  Do most of you fill all ballasts to surf?  
I agree, the bow ballast pump isn’t working properly

 

also, just noticed a huge gash, all the way through to the fiberglass on the bottom of the V in the bow.  About 12” long on port side of V. I’m sick!! Boat has 2 hours 

Edited by Msudogs93
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Sounds like a rough day on the water....sorry to hear about the surf session and more importantly,  the bottom of your new boat.  Must have hit something, I'd guess? 

The front pump isn't a big deal, dealer should be able to fix quickly.  Definitely need the bags in the rear lockers to surf in addition to the stock tanks at a minimum.  I'm surprised the dealer didn't tell you pnp was needed to surf.  They know better than that for sure.  They let you spend 100k on a surf boat, know you want to surf and don't tell you you need pnp rear ballast.  I'd be pretty upset to say the least.  

Edited by bovhica
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I appreciate the sympathy. I just looked at the pictures I sent my family from the day I purchased and when you zoom, the gash is there. I’ve owned boats for 15 years and knew I hadn’t hit anything 

 

they mentioned pnp for rear and said I would probably come back for them.  I guess I will have them installed when I go back about the pump and gouge. Also, depth isn’t displaying on screen either. Sheesh!!

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1 minute ago, Msudogs93 said:

I appreciate the sympathy. I just looked at the pictures I sent my family from the day I purchased and when you zoom, the gash is there. I’ve owned boats for 15 years and knew I hadn’t hit anything 

 

they mentioned pnp for rear and said I would probably come back for them.  I guess I will have them installed when I go back about the pump and gouge. Also, depth isn’t displaying on screen either. Sheesh!!

Glad you have the photo and time stamp as evidence it wasn't your doing.  Too bad that it wasn't noticed at sale but it can be repaired. The pump and depth finder should be easy warranty items.  I know it sucks to have your new boat in the shop, but those items are minor and just a part of owning a new boat and getting the gremlins out. 

I'd have the dealer take care of the rear pnp install while it's in the shop for work.  Hope all this doesn't keep you off the water too long.  I guess the bright side is you caught it early before the season ramps up.  Cheers!

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You’re right.  Every boat I’ve owned has been back in for gremlins within 2 weeks.  Water is still 63 here, so now is the time 

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2 minutes ago, Msudogs93 said:

You’re right.  Every boat I’ve owned has been back in for gremlins within 2 weeks.  Water is still 63 here, so now is the time 

My lake opens this Thursday.  I'll be stoked if it's 63* water temp.  Probably mid to upper 50s.  Hopefully upper 50s so I can throw on the spring suit and go!!!

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I’m not sure on power wedge 3 positions but on my PW2 I want to say position 6 is 1 click above Lift mode.

try coming up a click or 2, or 3 and you should see the size of the wave height increase in size.

From my experience the 23’s want PNP bags in the rear , and additional bow weight will bring your bow rise down and lengthen the wave.

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I have a T22 but like others have said , no way you should be trying to surf without pnp. crazy a dealer would not tell you the same. also I don't know how the 21's are but 300lbs of lead in the nose and as far up in the observers compartment should make a great wave once you get the pnp installed.

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Well, looks like I’m going back fit the pnp and bow bag as well.  On the starboard and port, what size do y’all recommend?  We usual have 4/ teenagers and 3-4 adults. 

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If you don't have the additional bags on top of tanks you can still surf no problem.  It's just going to take more effort to find the "sweet spot."  Is it going to be a heck of a lot easier with the additional bags and probably more fun, yes.  Don't let that discourage you though.  One thing is everyone's preferences are different and everyone learns things at different speeds.  I know you said your kids and friends are surfers, but maybe this stuff will help you be able to get out and enjoy the boat until you get bags.  I see a lot of posts about people running 11+MPH surfing.  I can tell you I like to surf behind a wave going 10-10.5.  That could because I was using a paddle wheel and they use GPS.  If you don't have the bags first thing I would do is slow the speed down.  You might be able to get down to 9.6 or so.  Just make sure the wave doesn't have any white wash on it.  From there just get back and play around.  You will figure it out quick and determine what your preferences are.  I personally never surfed my old boat (A22) with the wedge either.  Always thought it made the wave worse.  Also, make sure you're in deeper water.  I used to run in a river all the time and could still surf in 7ft but it was dramatically different from that to 12ft.  The deeper the better for your wave, just something to keep in mind.  Best of luck. . . the T23 is an awesome boat and creates a heck of a wake/wave.  

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Thank you.  I “think” I’ve been in 12-40’ water at all times, my depth finder is t working.  Also, I haven’t tried without the wedge, I’ll try that. In the meantime, I have to carry it back for some new boat fixes. I’m not sure if the bow bag is full or empty due to pump being messed up on it 

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2 hours ago, Msudogs93 said:

Thank you.  I “think” I’ve been in 12-40’ water at all times, my depth finder is t working.  Also, I haven’t tried without the wedge, I’ll try that. In the meantime, I have to carry it back for some new boat fixes. I’m not sure if the bow bag is full or empty due to pump being messed up on it 

I'm pretty sure @ajf4242 probably had rear bags when surfing without the wedge.  Most use the wedge to surf.  The few that don't use the wedge likely have enough pnp ballast and don't need the extra simulated weight that the wedge provides.  Without rear bags you will definitely need the simulated weight from the wedge if your are going to try to surf.  I run 4000 lbs of ballast and my wave gets even better with the wedge, but I have a different hull.  I'd recommend searching the site for ballast setup for the t23 and see how others setup their boats.  That will be the fastest and most painless way to dial your wave and know which bags to buy.

Edited by bovhica
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I'm betting that your bow tank's inoperability is causing the wave's overall lack of "push".  Last summer I accidentally bumped the bow drain button on my boat and didn't notice it until I had lost my rider to the weak wave, all while I struggled to save it with the wedge.  Fix that bow pump, some guys add 100-300lbs of lead in bow depending on their lake/river conditions, but its not really necessary if you have 1-2 bow riders most of the time.  That said you really can't go wrong with the pnp bags.  I'm not familiar with the options for axis but I recommend putting the biggest ones available in there - you can always under-fill the big ones if you have 8+people in the boat but you can't make the small ones any bigger in the off chance that only 2-3 people are on the boat and want a surf session.  Its really nice to be able to slam the ballasts with just me and my wife and 1-2 small kids and still have a perfect easy riding wave. Seeing you are a Idaho guy with colder water temperatures I recommend the hot shower option on the transom.  Fill up your wetsuit with hot water before you ride.  Cheers!

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Axis come from the factory with the bow fill connection connected to the vent line. If you do not have a bag to fill then when you turn your pump on it essentially just pushes water through the vent hole immediately. They do this so that you do not flood your boat with nothing connected. When you hit dump it will not dump cause there is nothing to drain.

Buy a set of rear and a front wakemakers PNP bag and your experience with change dramatically.

As it has been mentioned here, depending on the size of your kids, you should be able to run factory ballast, some wedge and slow the speed down and put out a wave large enough from younger kids. I was able to run factory ballast on my 15 T22 and my younger kids (8,10,12) could surf easily. Once their abilities advanced then the need for the larger wave was a necessity. 

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Yes, @bovhica when I surfed my A22 I had removed my hard tanks and had 1,100's on both sides of the engine.  I should have clarified that in my post.  That's not to say I haven't surfed old direct drives with only 3 people in the boat and 500lb fat seat though.  It can be done without a lot of ballast and you can have just as much fun.  You just have to find that sweet spot and it will probably make you a lot better when you get more ballast and your able to utilize more of the wave.  Last fall I surfed a new 2021 23 LSV with factory ballast and wedge and that thing had just as big of a wave as most boats slammed.  Another thing I would add that I should have said is have everyone sit on the side the person is surfing and give that a try.  I've noticed even with surfgate you still need to have more weight on the surfing side to clean up the wave.  You could give that a shot as well in the meantime.  Like everyone has suggested, I would still get bags to help the wave out.  My opinion and like @PNWokesaid is get the biggest bags you can that will fit.  It's always nice to have more if you want it.  Depends on what really matters to you.

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9 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

Axis come from the factory with the bow fill connection connected to the vent line. If you do not have a bag to fill then when you turn your pump on it essentially just pushes water through the vent hole immediately. They do this so that you do not flood your boat with nothing connected. When you hit dump it will not dump cause there is nothing to drain.

Buy a set of rear and a front wakemakers PNP bag and your experience with change dramatically.

As it has been mentioned here, depending on the size of your kids, you should be able to run factory ballast, some wedge and slow the speed down and put out a wave large enough from younger kids. I was able to run factory ballast on my 15 T22 and my younger kids (8,10,12) could surf easily. Once their abilities advanced then the need for the larger wave was a necessity. 

Good info here.

This is likely the problem with your bow ballast.  Since you didn't purchase the rear pnp, you likely don't have the bow either.  Highly recommend getting both rears and front bags. 

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Posted (edited)

I took boat back to Memphis today.  I’m getting the 750’s in the rear and one in the front.  The sales lady said my boat may not have front ballast, but the salesman said “sure does”. So I guess we will see. Either way, when I pull it back home, I will have full pnp system.  If I ever need it, I have it.  I really appreciate everyone’s help.  

Edited by Msudogs93
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11 hours ago, Msudogs93 said:

I took boat back to Memphis today.  I’m getting the 750’s in the rear and one in the front.  The sales lady said my boat may not have front ballast, but the salesman said “sure does”. So I guess we will see. Either way, when I pull it back home, I will have full pnp system.  If I ever need it, I have it.  I really appreciate everyone’s help.  

if you hit the Bow ballast button and water immediately spills out the side of the boat, you certainly do NOT have bow ballast.  As @ndahlberg12 stated, from the factory, the bow PnP hosing is looped directly to the vent.  If you dont see a bag under the bow area, you certainly do NOT have bow ballast.  Axis uses 3 hard tanks.  Port/starboard rear and a center tank.  The center tank is more "forward" centered (basically in the walkway between the dash and glove box area).   

My '18 T23 loves bow weight.  So much so that even with a wakemaker bow bag and 200lbs lead,  i ran my rear 750 fat sacks a little low when it was just me, my wife and kid.  This kept the boat from being too rear heavy.  For this season, i pulled the lead, purchased a Fatsac bow triangle and tsunami pump to go on top of the bow cushions when its just us 3.

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