Malibu Touch Command screen delamination

[justgary]

10 hours ago, wakeparadise said:

I was taken aback at the prices of those wakeswitches… seems a little bit excessive. 

The panels have probably $200 to $300 worth of switches on them.  Then he has to source the panels with graphics, the wire, the connectors, etc. and use his labor to cut, crimp, insert, tighten....  Then he has to package it nicely, include a decent installation procedure, and send it to you.  After that, he has to sit by the phone to make sales and answer questions, and then "warranty" kits that someone hooked up wrong.

I think his pricing is spot on considering he might sell 100 of these in the short-ish term.  I'd be surprised if he actually makes any profit after covering his R&D time.

[windy1]

least expensive fix available

[wakeparadise]

7 minutes ago, windy1 said:

least expensive fix available

Lol very very very very good point! 

[Wakeswitches]

On 9/28/2022 at 9:49 PM, Wakeswitches said:

Would anyone be interested in a relatively inexpensive product consisting of an iphone/android app paired with a bluetooth enabled module that plugs into the MTC harness as a backup or replacement for the MTC? I think this idea has been floated before, but I've recently done some initial research and I think I can develop it over the off season. Once this is done, it would be a simple add-on to install a tablet in place of the screen. If there are any owners who have issues/concerns with the MTC locking up or going completely dead, in addition to delaminating, this could be a good option. I'd like to gauge the interest level before dedicating a bunch of time to it.

In my quest to interface with the canbus I have found medallion/Malibu is most likely not using a data speed that’s typically used for the protocol (125, 250, 500kbps). Does anyone on this thread know what speed they’re using or have a resource to find out?

 

Cheers,

Chris

[johnny lake]

i have a 2011 wakesetter with

the same problem

[Punyelroo]

Hey All,

Happy New Year !

Question - I am considering the MTC Screen replacement from mtcscreens.com. Given I live in Australia I'm thinking the DIY option might be the go but I can't find the install video on the website that it refers to - anyone happen to have a link?
That said, has anyone actually taken the DIY approach and can comment on how difficult it is to do - is it risky?

TIA

Andrew

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by Punyelroo

[rockbottom]

They have not posted the video.  I think it is fairly simple.  Heat edges and remove old screen, clean, hookup new connectors, align and seal.  If you have replaced cell phone screens, this should be simpler.

 

P.S.  He said it will be a few weeks for the self-install option.

[cuescreens]

Hey guys- the DIY video is up on the install page of the website. Note that this is the draft version and missing narration. I have a few updates to make and then will update it. I wanted to make sure I was showing the best possible method to make it clear for you folks.

Next batch of panels is arriving in 3 days or so and then orders will open up again.

Also, because you guys have been so kind to me, I will be posting a PROMO CODE for members of TMC forum. I'll come back with that once the inventory is available.

DIY is similar to replacing a phone screen. 

I've been busy with replacing customer units. Hopefully we get some customers weigh in here with how they like it.

After doing 40 of these I finally have a good technique figured out

Many updates in December- dark blue anti glare, super oleophobic coating, etc. This new panel fits so well and looks phenomenal.

Price drops should be coming this summer also, as the supplier will be able to order the 100+ batches.

Plus my install time has been cut in half through improved learned technique and equipment. My goal is to get the DIY version down to below $1k and the mail in service at $1,400

I'm also working on 5 other delaminating Medallion models- including the 7" and 12.3" systems that are in the newer 2018+ boats. Should have those models (MTC-7A and MTC-12A) available by this boating season.

This should cover all models, all years Malibu boats as well as many others that have the same delamination issue. Ski Nautique, mastercraft, Tige, Sea Doo, the list goes on.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by cuescreens

[cuescreens]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:26 AM, bcoppess23 said:

Good work here, it has been great watching you progress through the different iterations! 

Once you get through the initial rush of orders, the people with the 2015-2020 models have a 12" screen that are now starting to have similar issues.  Malibu boat owners can keep you in business for a while!!  I fully expect '21 and newer will eventually have the problem too..

 

You are correct- the 12.3" has the same issue and is actually going to be failing sooner than the 6.5" as the surface tension on the glue is much higher due to the torsion of the wider panel

Working on the MTC-12A unit right now. New warranty units are backordered so hoping to offer a solution. 

 

[cuescreens]

On 9/28/2022 at 11:35 AM, windy1 said:

Wow, as soon as Cuescreens came up with an apperent fix for the 11-14 screens people started chiming in about problems with other models. What does that tell you.

I don't mean to downplay what cuescreens has acheived in any way but it is still a touch screen. There is no discussion anyware on togle switch's failing. Maybe that's why Supra has backup togle switches for all touch screen functions.

 

 

Correct- pretty much all factory boats that use a touch screen with this LOCA method will fail and delaminate. 

The reason why is the method of bonding. LOCA glue is just not suitable for this environment. 

My panels use OCA film- which is used in pretty much every cell phone on earth and a proven technology at this point.

Touch screens can work when the bonding method is properly selected.

Toggle switches have their place, but like anything there are pros and cons to that option.

So why did pretty much all OEM display manufacturers use LOCA glue to bond the touch display panels together since 2011 or so?

Engineering by benchmarking others. Medallion had great success in selling their display hardware to a variety of manufacturers across many industries. Works great and speeds up development when its a good design. When you copy a bad design, you get widespread failures. 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by cuescreens

[RyanB]

3 minutes ago, cuescreens said:

Correct- pretty much all factory boats that use a touch screen will fail and delaminate. 

The reason why is the method of bonding. LOCA glue is just not suitable for this environment. 

My panels use OCA film- which is used in pretty much every cell phone on earth and a proven technology at this point.

Touch screens can work when the bonding method is properly selected.

Toggle switches have their place, but like anything there are pros and cons to that option.

So why did pretty much all OEM display manufacturers use LOCA glue to bond the touch display panels together since 2011 or so?

Engineering by benchmarking others. Medallion had great success in selling their display hardware to a variety of manufacturers across many industries. Works great and speeds up development when its a good design. When you copy a bad design, you get widespread failures. 

 

Not trying to be critical, but trying to learn in regard to your comment that all boats with OEM touchscreens will fail/delaminate. Why doesn’t that apply to the touchscreens on Lowrance, Humminbird and Garmin sonar/fishfinders?  I’m on some very active fishing boards, and I can’t recall ever seeing a complaint here. And it seems there are way more of these types of screens than what go in wake boats. 

[cuescreens]

3 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Not trying to be critical, but trying to learn in regard to your comment that all boats with OEM touchscreens will fail/delaminate. Why doesn’t that apply to the touchscreens on Lowrance, Humminbird and Garmin sonar/fishfinders?  I’m on some very active fishing boards, and I can’t recall ever seeing a complaint here. And it seems there are way more of these types of screens than what go in wake boats. 

Sorry- I should have clarified- touch screens that use this glue bonding method. My mistake, edited post to be clear. 

[granddaddy55]

glad they went with the large 12” android tablets for my dual screens, if i had to be told my fix was 2000-3500!for parts and oh by the way we cant get them or if we can they may experience same issue seems lousy!!  to read this thread and now to read it will be more than the 12-14 era, this is getting ridiculous!

malibu hiding behind their vendor medallion is it?  is complete bull since it controls the operation of your boat!

hope my tablets hold up, they are stupid easy to update software as well as i did it at home and their sending me ‘23 updates for my ‘22 and its recommended by the manufacturer and this latest update gives me ‘23 features like an eq (only 3db of adjustment though) and about a 15% increase in sound system voltage output signal to the amps.  they finally are creating an integrated to screen software transom remote option that was sorely lacking in my brand

hats off to @cuescreens for his effort rescuing you owners from your manufacturer 

Edited January 19, 2023 by granddaddy55

[JMaddogT]

11 hours ago, cuescreens said:

 

@cuescreens 

Cant thank you enough for all you help and support here. Thankfully there is finally an option for repair!!!

Edited January 19, 2023 by JMaddogT

[COOP]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:54 AM, justgary said:

The panels have probably $200 to $300 worth of switches on them.  Then he has to source the panels with graphics, the wire, the connectors, etc. and use his labor to cut, crimp, insert, tighten....  Then he has to package it nicely, include a decent installation procedure, and send it to you.  After that, he has to sit by the phone to make sales and answer questions, and then "warranty" kits that someone hooked up wrong.

I think his pricing is spot on considering he might sell 100 of these in the short-ish term.  I'd be surprised if he actually makes any profit after covering his R&D time.

We just installed one of these setups for a customer. Price is more than reasonable. Quality is top notch.

[Wakeswitches]

11 hours ago, COOP said:

We just installed one of these setups for a customer. Price is more than reasonable. Quality is top notch.

Happy New Year All!

I'd like to share the latest updates from Wakeswitches Consoles. Now available are consoles with surf gate controls for 2013-14 model year boats! These are potentially compatible with 2015 models also but yet to be confirmed. If you are a 2015 owner and interested in collaborating, please reach out. The available selection of consoles has been expanded to include solutions for boats with all lighting options, including tower lights. Whatever combination of lighting and heating options your boat has, you should find an appropriate console available on the site. As always, if you want something slightly different, changes can be made to the faceplates with only a few days additional lead time. There are also some pricing and warranty updates noted on the site. Analog is the economical solution with maximum long term reliability.

The app-based solution is almost ready, and should be available by our start of the season in the US. Here's how it works: You decide whether you want to use an existing tablet/phone and download the controller app, or add-on a new tablet to the kit with the app pre-loaded. New tablets will come with an enclosure that enables mounting in the mtc screen location. A microprocessor contained in an small enclosure is attached to the wire harness that originally connects to the mtc screen. The phone/tablet with the app loaded communicates to the microprocessor via Bluetooth. That's it. No other wiring, fuse holders, or connections required. The app will control all existing functions. Development of this solution is about 80% complete, and pricing will be very attractive.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Wakeswitches
attached surf gate console photo

[Steve B.]

Dude. Great work. Will certainly be interesting to see your app performance and integration. Keep up the good work !

Steve B.

[cuescreens]

16 hours ago, Wakeswitches said:

Happy New Year All!

 

 

 

Hi, so, uh, this comment below on your website main page is factually inaccurate. No need to lie to customers to try and get sales. 

The frozen touch command symptom is 100% due to , and only due to, the delamination of the digitizer to the glass. Replace the digitizer and glass and the problem is fixed. 

No microprocessor anywhere has anything to do with it. 

____________________________

 

"When you experience the frozen MTC touchscreen, the lack of touch response is a separate microprocessor-related issue. Sure, the unit can be made to look pretty again with a new LCD screen, bonded to a new digitizer with OCA film, but that processor issue still lurks deep in the module waiting to extract more of your money."

Edited January 20, 2023 by cuescreens

[oldjeep]

16 hours ago, Wakeswitches said:

Happy New Year All!

I'd like to share the latest updates from Wakeswitches Consoles. Now available are consoles with surf gate controls for 2013-14 model year boats! These are potentially compatible with 2015 models also but yet to be confirmed. If you are a 2015 owner and interested in collaborating, please reach out. The available selection of consoles has been expanded to include solutions for boats with all lighting options, including tower lights. Whatever combination of lighting and heating options your boat has, you should find an appropriate console available on the site. As always, if you want something slightly different, changes can be made to the faceplates with only a few days additional lead time. There are also some pricing and warranty updates noted on the site. Analog is the economical solution with maximum long term reliability.

The app-based solution is almost ready, and should be available by our start of the season in the US. Here's how it works: You decide whether you want to use an existing tablet/phone and download the controller app, or add-on a new tablet to the kit with the app pre-loaded. New tablets will come with an enclosure that enables mounting in the mtc screen location. A microprocessor contained in an small enclosure is attached to the wire harness that originally connects to the mtc screen. The phone/tablet with the app loaded communicates to the microprocessor via Bluetooth. That's it. No other wiring, fuse holders, or connections required. The app will control all existing functions. Development of this solution is about 80% complete, and pricing will be very attractive.

 

That looks so much better than using a touch screen.  I wish this had been out before I spent the big bucks on a replacement.

[UWSkier]

23 hours ago, oldjeep said:

That looks so much better than using a touch screen.  I wish this had been out before I spent the big bucks on a replacement.

it's tidy, and would work great for my most common use cases.  Would kinda stink to lose presets though for those who make use of them.

[oldjeep]

8 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

it's tidy, and would work great for my most common use cases.  Would kinda stink to lose presets though for those who make use of them.

Presets (that matter) are in the other screen.  All I care about is speed in my case.  Ballast is either all or nothing and the wedge is easy enough to manually control.  

[Bruises]

 Just ordered the standard response console.  $50 off currently.  To think I was going to try and retrofit like ski4nuts but agree as Just Gary said would cost me nearly as much and it wouldn’t be as refined.  If a switch goes down I can replace.  Additionally if I were to sell suspect it would go to another like mind.  
 

I get it, touch screens are cool, but I will need a little test of time (durability) and knowledge that the new screen would respond to my cold fingers/gloves.

I have no relationships to disclose. I sincerely hope the best for you both going forward.  

[windy1]

My presets were not effected by the wakeswitch installation. Like oldjeep said, ballast is all or nothing so speed and wedge are all I care about. I can still adjust and set presets with the upper screen. The saddest part of this whole thing is that Malibu bearly admits that there is a problem then rubs our nose in it by jacking the screen price way up for a product that will fail again. Heck, I think they are still backordered so you can't get an original one for any price right now.

[Pstangle86]

If I have an extra screen from a LSV (mine is a vtx) could I send my spare in to get the screen fixed so I don’t have to go to storage to pull the screen in my boat out, or will it have different software?

[braindamage]

I thinks it’s awesome that @cuescreensand @Wakeswitchesstepped into the gap. I’m highly confident there is plenty of market for both.

thanks soooo much!