Add on boarding ladder help?

[JBL78]

@dalt1 @InfinitysurfThanks for the information. I bought  same ladder and went with Stainless steel inserts and the 1" bolts. I'm just trying to figure out an accurate way to measure my platform thickness so I don't over drill thinking I might should have went with 3/4" bolts. Not sure if the 2020 platforms are the same thickness.

[dalt1]

11 hours ago, JBL78 said:

@dalt1 @InfinitysurfThanks for the information. I bought  same ladder and went with Stainless steel inserts and the 1" bolts. I'm just trying to figure out an accurate way to measure my platform thickness so I don't over drill thinking I might should have went with 3/4" bolts. Not sure if the 2020 platforms are the same thickness.

You will feel the pressure release when you get through the first layer of fiberglass. Then go easy till you feel the next layer which you do not want to drill. Probably just foam sandwiched between the 2 layers. Scrape out some foam so you can back fill under the first layer with epoxy putty. I used 3/4" screws.

[dalt1]

11 hours ago, JBL78 said:

@dalt1 @InfinitysurfThanks for the information. I bought  same ladder and went with Stainless steel inserts and the 1" bolts. I'm just trying to figure out an accurate way to measure my platform thickness so I don't over drill thinking I might should have went with 3/4" bolts. Not sure if the 2020 platforms are the same thickness.

It is only going to be about 3/16" thick before you break through the first layer.

[JBL78]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ged0391nt3j0uwp/IMG_5790.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/osjqkx3jarzaiao/IMG_5791.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/de4xr51tgflw7fa/IMG_5792.jpg?dl=0

 

Got it done. My issues were I had to turn the ladder 180 so that it would lock. It was hitting the fiberglass when folded in original position. I will add washers so it will clear and turn it back around if we find it to be an issue. I advise getting all bolts ready for install and buying the nutsert driver tool. I had just enough time before the epoxy set up using the driver tool and it went quick. I had my bolts waxed prior to starting the epoxy. Also buy black epoxy. Garage test went well I'll report the water test this weekend.

Edited June 5, 2020 by JBL78

[dalt1]

2 hours ago, JBL78 said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ged0391nt3j0uwp/IMG_5790.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/osjqkx3jarzaiao/IMG_5791.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/de4xr51tgflw7fa/IMG_5792.jpg?dl=0

 

Got it done. My issues were I had to turn the ladder 180 so that it would lock. It was hitting the fiberglass when folded in original position. I will add washers so it will clear and turn it back around if we find it to be an issue. I advise getting all bolts ready for install and buying the nutsert driver tool. I had just enough time before the epoxy set up using the driver tool and it went quick. I had my bolts waxed prior to starting the epoxy. Also buy black epoxy. Garage test went well I'll report the water test this weekend.

Ladder being swapped should be no problem. I actually ground off a bit of the fiberglass at the outer edge of the platform and that took care of it. Did your platform have a hump right at the furthest out mount hole. That also gave me a bit of room.

[JBL78]

On 6/5/2020 at 5:50 PM, dalt1 said:

Ladder being swapped should be no problem. I actually ground off a bit of the fiberglass at the outer edge of the platform and that took care of it. Did your platform have a hump right at the furthest out mount hole. That also gave me a bit of room.

Yes but I mounted it further back where it was all flat and that didn't give me the clearance. It kinda hurt your feet a little because the rungs are raked towards the boat but I'm thinking that's a good thing so no one will be bouncing around back there on it. Everything worked good and it made it really easy to get back on the platform especially for it's intended users (aging grandparents and little kid). It's easy to lock and unlock from the water or on the boat and is secure when locked. No effects on the wake lines.

[MtnTrails]

Thank you all for the great Ideas. I am planning to do the insert method on the 2021 T23 when she gets here.  Has anyone done an Axis Platform. wondering if the glass thickness etc will be similar.   

[Texan32]

16 hours ago, MtnTrails said:

Thank you all for the great Ideas. I am planning to do the insert method on the 2021 T23 when she gets here.  Has anyone done an Axis Platform. wondering if the glass thickness etc will be similar.   

unless Axis improved their swim decks recently, be prepared for an un-even bottom.  I ended up using plastic/nylon washers of different thickness for 4 of the 6 bolts holding my ladder on. 

[ndahlberg12]

22 hours ago, MtnTrails said:

Thank you all for the great Ideas. I am planning to do the insert method on the 2021 T23 when she gets here.  Has anyone done an Axis Platform. wondering if the glass thickness etc will be similar.   

Just out of curiosity, if you ordered new, then why didn’t you just order it from the factory? It’s an option. 

[dalt1]

8 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

Just out of curiosity, if you ordered new, then why didn’t you just order it from the factory? It’s an option. 

$$$$ I put mine on for under $120 What does the option cost?

[Eagleboy99]

1 hour ago, dalt1 said:

$$$$ I put mine on for under $120 What does the option cost?

I'm working off a wonky memory, but wasn't it a couple of grand?

[teamerickson]

When I ordered a 2017 23 LSV (in late 2016), the cost for the ladder was $550 MSRP. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by teamerickson

[Eagleboy99]

1 hour ago, teamerickson said:

When I ordered a 2017 23 LSV (in late 2016), the cost for the ladder was $550 MSRP. 

If that was today's price, I'd say it was worth it.

[dalt1]

9 hours ago, teamerickson said:

When I ordered a 2017 23 LSV (in late 2016), the cost for the ladder was $550 MSRP. 

And that was not the Fancy 1 step flop down they started in 2019!  That one is more than triple that.

[MtnTrails]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:40 PM, dalt1 said:

$$$$ I put mine on for under $120 What does the option cost?

My dealer did not mention that this was an option, is it available for Axis or Just Mailbu?  At any rate I am sure the cost is high and I would rather DIY it and have it in the center of the back rather than on the side.

[MtnTrails]

On 12/23/2020 at 2:10 AM, Texan32 said:

unless Axis improved their swim decks recently, be prepared for an un-even bottom.  I ended up using plastic/nylon washers of different thickness for 4 of the 6 bolts holding my ladder on. 

What year is yours that you worked on.  I will have some washers just in case.  Also, how was the thickness of the glass where the nutserts go and I assume there is a space between he top and bottom layers similar to the Malibu Descriptions above.  

[Texan32]

11 hours ago, MtnTrails said:

What year is yours that you worked on.  I will have some washers just in case.  Also, how was the thickness of the glass where the nutserts go and I assume there is a space between he top and bottom layers similar to the Malibu Descriptions above.  

Mine is a 2018 T23.  Yes, the platform is layered with a filler in the middle.  @dalt1 used a threaded insert.  I will assume that is what you are referring to.  Nutserts and threaded inserts are completely different animal.  But, if you are talking about a true nutsert, here's my input...  1) based on the nature of how they work, i would be worried about them ripping thru the fiberglass.  There is not alot of surface area on the "ballooned" part once they are crushed in place.  2) they rely on friction to hold securely.  Initial install will cause pinching/crushing of the fiberglass.  With use, I would be concerned that the fiberglass will continue to crush making them loose, intensifying my concern #1  3) I dont know if there would be enough space between the layers to get a nutsert installed without protruding all the way thru the platform (not doubting, just physically dont know).

Now, if you are considering using the threaded inserts that @dalt1 used, i still have my concerns.  1)Malibu uses better construction on their swim platforms.  I can't guarantee you will have the same thickness of fiberglass to sink that insert into.  And because i used thru bolts, i didnt really pay attention to the thickness of either side.  2) even if its 1/4" - 3/16" think, i personally dont feel that sufficient thread engagement to make a lasting mount point.  The bolts closest to the ladder will me taking the majority of the weight.  I would be constantly worried that the inserts were going to rip out.  This isnt meant degrade his solution.  If its working for him...awesome!  This would keep people from either looking at bolt heads on their platform OR replacing the mat.  Again, these are just my concerns. 

When i installed mine, i was already installing all new GatorStep.  I countersunk stainless flat head bolts installed thru the top of the platform with nylocks on the bottom.  I purchased the largest diameter bolt that would fit thru the latter holes (without drilling them bigger).  The idea was to maximize the amount of bolt-to-platform mating surface area.  I used 3M 5200 to seal both sides of the holes.  I used all 6 mounting locations on the ladder to help spread the load.  I even shaved the 2 bolt heads that were furthest to the rear to follow the contours of the platform. 

[dalt1]

On 12/26/2020 at 10:51 AM, Texan32 said:

Mine is a 2018 T23.  Yes, the platform is layered with a filler in the middle.  @dalt1 used a threaded insert.  I will assume that is what you are referring to.  Nutserts and threaded inserts are completely different animal.  But, if you are talking about a true nutsert, here's my input...  1) based on the nature of how they work, i would be worried about them ripping thru the fiberglass.  There is not alot of surface area on the "ballooned" part once they are crushed in place.  2) they rely on friction to hold securely.  Initial install will cause pinching/crushing of the fiberglass.  With use, I would be concerned that the fiberglass will continue to crush making them loose, intensifying my concern #1  3) I dont know if there would be enough space between the layers to get a nutsert installed without protruding all the way thru the platform (not doubting, just physically dont know).

Now, if you are considering using the threaded inserts that @dalt1 used, i still have my concerns.  1)Malibu uses better construction on their swim platforms.  I can't guarantee you will have the same thickness of fiberglass to sink that insert into.  And because i used thru bolts, i didnt really pay attention to the thickness of either side.  2) even if its 1/4" - 3/16" think, i personally dont feel that sufficient thread engagement to make a lasting mount point.  The bolts closest to the ladder will me taking the majority of the weight.  I would be constantly worried that the inserts were going to rip out.  This isnt meant degrade his solution.  If its working for him...awesome!  This would keep people from either looking at bolt heads on their platform OR replacing the mat.  Again, these are just my concerns. 

When i installed mine, i was already installing all new GatorStep.  I countersunk stainless flat head bolts installed thru the top of the platform with nylocks on the bottom.  I purchased the largest diameter bolt that would fit thru the latter holes (without drilling them bigger).  The idea was to maximize the amount of bolt-to-platform mating surface area.  I used 3M 5200 to seal both sides of the holes.  I used all 6 mounting locations on the ladder to help spread the load.  I even shaved the 2 bolt heads that were furthest to the rear to follow the contours of the platform. 

My Threaded inserts are also bedded in a Two part epoxy putty like JB Weld that was packed in the hole before the Insert was driven in. I would not be comfortable with just holding on the thin fiberglass layer. As it is, mine is backed up as the putty was forced to spread and fill the void when the inserts went in. I am quite confident it is every bit as sound as Countersinking bolts from top layer that is probably the same thickness. 120 hours this year and it was tested at well over 200 lbs many times this summer. Still as solid as the day it was mounted.

[macdaddy]

I moved my ladder when I built my surfgates.  Simply moved it to the back of the platform and screwed it in with large stainless steal screws.  Had someone use it that was close to 300lbs.  That was the major test and no problems.

Edited December 29, 2020 by macdaddy

[MtnTrails]

On 12/26/2020 at 9:51 AM, Texan32 said:

Mine is a 2018 T23.  Yes, the platform is layered with a filler in the middle.  @dalt1 used a threaded insert.  I will assume that is what you are referring to.  Nutserts and threaded inserts are completely different animal.  But, if you are talking about a true nutsert, here's my input...  1) based on the nature of how they work, i would be worried about them ripping thru the fiberglass.  There is not alot of surface area on the "ballooned" part once they are crushed in place.  2) they rely on friction to hold securely.  Initial install will cause pinching/crushing of the fiberglass.  With use, I would be concerned that the fiberglass will continue to crush making them loose, intensifying my concern #1  3) I dont know if there would be enough space between the layers to get a nutsert installed without protruding all the way thru the platform (not doubting, just physically dont know).

Now, if you are considering using the threaded inserts that @dalt1 used, i still have my concerns.  1)Malibu uses better construction on their swim platforms.  I can't guarantee you will have the same thickness of fiberglass to sink that insert into.  And because i used thru bolts, i didnt really pay attention to the thickness of either side.  2) even if its 1/4" - 3/16" think, i personally dont feel that sufficient thread engagement to make a lasting mount point.  The bolts closest to the ladder will me taking the majority of the weight.  I would be constantly worried that the inserts were going to rip out.  This isnt meant degrade his solution.  If its working for him...awesome!  This would keep people from either looking at bolt heads on their platform OR replacing the mat.  Again, these are just my concerns. 

When i installed mine, i was already installing all new GatorStep.  I countersunk stainless flat head bolts installed thru the top of the platform with nylocks on the bottom.  I purchased the largest diameter bolt that would fit thru the latter holes (without drilling them bigger).  The idea was to maximize the amount of bolt-to-platform mating surface area.  I used 3M 5200 to seal both sides of the holes.  I used all 6 mounting locations on the ladder to help spread the load.  I even shaved the 2 bolt heads that were furthest to the rear to follow the contours of the platform. 

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.  I did plan to use the threaded inserts like Dalt1,  Someone mentioned nutserts in a previous post and I assumed they were the same.  I will also use the epoxy putty to fill the void and spread the load to a larger area.  Boat arrives in March I already have the ladder. 

[MadCan]

On 12/27/2020 at 5:13 PM, dalt1 said:

My Threaded inserts are also bedded in a Two part epoxy putty like JB Weld that was packed in the hole before the Insert was driven in. I would not be comfortable with just holding on the thin fiberglass layer. As it is, mine is backed up as the putty was forced to spread and fill the void when the inserts went in. I am quite confident it is every bit as sound as Countersinking bolts from top layer that is probably the same thickness. 120 hours this year and it was tested at well over 200 lbs many times this summer. Still as solid as the day it was mounted.

How has this method held up? I have a T250 that I'm debating doing this to. If it saves me from ripping off a brand new swim step pad I'm super interested but figured I'd check in on this post to see how it's lasting. Thanks!!

[dalt1]

1 hour ago, MadCan said:

How has this method held up? I have a T250 that I'm debating doing this to. If it saves me from ripping off a brand new swim step pad I'm super interested but figured I'd check in on this post to see how it's lasting. Thanks!!

Perfect, has handled some 300 plus individuals like a champ. Gets used every weekend from May till into October so been battle tested and gets an A+.

[MadCan]

19 hours ago, dalt1 said:

Perfect, has handled some 300 plus individuals like a champ. Gets used every weekend from May till into October so been battle tested and gets an A+.

Awesome! I already grabbed all the hardware needed and hopefully will be picking the boat up next weekend.

[Raimie]

Working on my layout now. Awesome idea and write up guys.

What do you guys think about using some washers to make up for the lack of flatness on the platform? @dalt1 @Infinitysurf did you guys run into this?

Update, I noticed above the utilization of rubber or nylon washers. I will go that route instead of the metal.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Raimie

[dalt1]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:33 AM, dalt1 said:

I used Vasoline on the bolts before installing the inserts for the same reason. Remember to install inserts upside down to let the screwdriver slot help cut it's way in.(I think that probably helped ) My epoxy putty filler was getting stiff when I drove the inserts. I packed the hole full just before inserting them. If you let it set rock hard, I don't know how the inserts would go in.(would have to drill the JB Weld putty out to 3/8")  Took a good amount of pressure to get them to bite (Push hard) but once they started I drove them till the install bolt I had in the 5/16" threads bottomed out.

My platform under side also had a lip (hump) toward the outer edge which is where my end bolts landed. I filled between the ladder mount steel and the platform with the same epoxy putty (During final bolt up) to take up the gap that created along the mount surface from front to back. (Gap approx 1/8") After all that set up, I sealed around all bolts and full perimeters of the 2 mount steels which is also probably adding adhesive strength, but mainly to keep water out of the core. Although I doubt the ones dealer puts on are sealed very thoroughly.

Also, if the inserts are not perfectly square going in, (they won't be too far off) I drilled my clearance holes on the ladder out 1/32" more to assist in the lineup. They were very snug on the bolt as shipped.

I bet I took that ladder apart 8 times before I got done.

Good Luck! Send Pics.

@RaimieLooks like  drilled holes were 3/8" as noted by need to drill epoxy putty if it hardened first. Also laid a bed of putty before bolting platform down to fill the voids in flatness of platform.