Help with smaller tow vehicle options

[gregtay]

55 minutes ago, Asmodeus2112 said:

I'm having trouble finding GCWR for the Audi Q7. There are threads on forums about this, and 

Have seen a Q7, but not a Touareg yet. What is the difference in cargo space in back between Touareg and Q7? Cayenne if you know...

Well the Touareg and Cayenne are nearly the same but the VW is slightly more space due to the rear window sloping less.  We had both the VW and the Audi side by side in our garage for nearly 8 years.. we loved them both... the space is different. On many trips I’d be out loading up the Q7 only to switch to the VW because I felt like I could get more in. It really depends on what you are packing. Cargo area width is exactly the same. The Q7 with the 3rd row stowed is certainly deeper (more flat area) but because it has a 3rd row the floor is significant higher than the boxy and higher cargo area of the VW So in many cases it allowed me to pack more stuff in the Touareg. You can also open the rear glass on the VW, which allowed you to really pack it full, Q7 didn’t have that feature.

[bretcole]

My family has a 2008 Touareg v8 that we use to tow our 2009 Sanger v215 to Tahoe every year which is up and over donner pass so I think it can tow a vlx from Texas to Wisconsin.

[Asmodeus2112]

8 hours ago, bretcole said:

My family has a 2008 Touareg v8 that we use to tow our 2009 Sanger v215 to Tahoe every year which is up and over donner pass so I think it can tow a vlx from Texas to Wisconsin.

thanks for the info. I didn't clarify that we probably will not be towing back to WI again. Mostly just from storage to Lake Austin, and occasionally an hour or so away to Lake LBJ. That's impressive that the Touareg can pull your Sanger over Donner Pass.

[Asmodeus2112]

16 hours ago, gregtay said:

You could get an S-Line TDI... my q7 was a Prestige S-Line TDI with air suspension.  S-Line is basically a sports appearance package.

Ok, the Q7 we drove is the TDI. We were confused by the S-Line.  I didn't think it was a dog. When driving it I thought is was the diesel and it drove like I expected, a lot of tourque, lower redline, like 4500 or so, not a lot of HP on the top end. Some turbo lag. It moved pretty good though, and felt like the torque was high so made be believe it would tow well. I'm sure the Cayenne gas turbo v8 is way more fun to drive, but the v6 TDI seems like a rational motor for towing. I would like to consider a V8 TDI or dream about a V10, but the older 2008 or so units I see are all pretty high mileage. 

The dealership sent me the window sticker of this Q7. I needed to make sure it has the tow package which it does.  No air suspension though. The 21" wheels are really nice to look at, but probably not a good choice. Makes the car ride harsher, and $$ to replace. Dealer is going to put new ones on though. More sidewall would probably be nice when we hit a dirt road. Check it out. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-Uc0aPoY3szgJELgQ1BAR693CbafkI46

Edited June 24, 2019 by Asmodeus2112
Add some info

[oldjeep]

37 minutes ago, Asmodeus2112 said:

Ok, the Q7 we drove is the TDI. We were confused by the S-Line.  I didn't think it was a dog. When driving it I thought is was the diesel and it drove like I expected, a lot of tourque, lower redline, like 4500 or so, not a lot of HP on the top end. Some turbo lag. It moved pretty good though, and felt like the torque was high so made be believe it would tow well. I'm sure the Cayenne gas turbo v8 is way more fun to drive, but the v6 TDI seems like a rational motor for towing. I would like to consider a V8 TDI or dream about a V10, but the older 2008 or so units I see are all pretty high mileage. 

The dealership sent me the window sticker of this Q7. I needed to make sure it has the tow package which it does.  No air suspension though. The 21" wheels are really nice to look at, but probably not a good choice. Makes the car ride harsher, and $$ to replace. Dealer is going to put new ones on though. More sidewall would probably be nice when we hit a dirt road. Check it out. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-Uc0aPoY3szgJELgQ1BAR693CbafkI46

S line is typically appearance, lower profile tires with bigger rims and sport suspension - or at least it used to be.  There didn't used to be any difference in horsepower.

[Asmodeus2112]

2 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

S line is typically appearance, lower profile tires with bigger rims and sport suspension - or at least it used to be.  There didn't used to be any difference in horsepower.

That's correct, we were confused at first. 

[bretcole]

Go to autotrader I saw 3 2008 Touareg v8’s with under 100,000 miles for under $10,000 in the entire U.S.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Volkswagen/Touareg/Santa+Rosa+CA-95405

Edited June 24, 2019 by bretcole

[Nitrousbird]

6 hours ago, Asmodeus2112 said:

The 21" wheels are really nice to look at, but probably not a good choice. Makes the car ride harsher, and $$ to replace.

IMO, it makes the ride nicer, as it firms things up just slightly and making the handling more predictable.  My current and previous trucks have both been on factory 22" wheels.  Perfectly fine for towing.  Unless you are off-roading (which a Q7 isn't exactly the vehicle of choice), a 21" wheel is fine.  I would want the air suspension, though.  I miss it on my truck and eventually plan to add airbags - so much nicer for towing; my last truck had it from the factory and I really miss it.

 

[Asmodeus2112]

For the most part the truck will be on the pavement, or some mild dirt roads and occasionally crossing a grass field. The wheels/tires should be fine for that. Once a year we go to a camp out in the middle of Texas that requires 8 miles of a pretty rough dirt road, but it is still a road. We might head down to Big Bend, but then just dirt roads too. It would be nice to have a little more sidewall then, but those are the exceptions not the norm. The only vehicles that we have found with air suspension have been the Cayenne, so far none of the Q7's or Touaregs have had that option. Just drove a '15 Touareg v6 TDI. Definitely feels lighter than the Q7, seems to accelerate faster. So, since all the Touaregs can tow ~7600, we don't need the third row seats, and the T-reg drives smaller and seems faster I might elimiate the Q7. I have yet to see a Cayenne. Wife does not really like the idea of the Cayenne. I think it is the only way to get air suspension, but she has researched it and found a lot of mechnical problems with them. Since we are buying used mid mileage with no factory warranty she probably has a good point. Unfortunately the wife and I both really like this white Q7 S-Line, but logic says we should move on. T-reg did have more cargo space than we thought. Off to research the T-reg more thoroughly. Need to find out if the factory tow package is a must of if aftermarket hitches are ok.

[Asmodeus2112]

V10 TDI with air suspension. ???

 

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=forSaleTab_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d205&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=78759&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&fuelTypes=0&engines=V10&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=240485011

[UWSkier]

No apprehensions about a late model VAG vehicle?  Touraeg is a cool vehicle but like all things VAG, it's a complex bit of kit.

 

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, Asmodeus2112 said:

V10 TDI with air suspension. ???

They they are supposed to pull like a beast but are super complicated and very rare which means hard to get fixed if they break. Personally I would rather go the cayenne turbo route than the V10 tdi taureg. 

Vs your Honda (assuming your Honda experience has been good) with any of the three related German vehicles you are looking at you are gonna find out what it means to “break expensive.”

 

[Bozboat]

1 minute ago, shawndoggy said:

They they are supposed to pull like a beast but are super complicated and very rare which means hard to get fixed if they break. Personally I would rather go the cayenne turbo route than the V10 tdi taureg. 

Vs your Honda (assuming your Honda experience has been good) with any of the three related German vehicles you are looking at you are gonna find out what it means to “break expensive.”

 

Does the VW diesel have the german DEF diesel particulate filter system or the software fix to get around it?   For reference, the BMW DEF system is about $2k every time it takes a dump on your driveway.

[gregtay]

11 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Does the VW diesel have the german DEF diesel particulate filter system or the software fix to get around it?   For reference, the BMW DEF system is about $2k every time it takes a dump on your driveway.

 

11 minutes ago, Bozboat said:

Does the VW diesel have the german DEF diesel particulate filter system or the software fix to get around it?   For reference, the BMW DEF system is about $2k every time it takes a dump on your driveway.

The v10TDI has filters that purge/regen, no adblue fluid. The v6tdi needs adblue/def fluid and has filters. I know of no way around the filters.

[gregtay]

This would be fun... has air suspension 😬 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayenne-gts-4/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-06-25

they didn’t make many with the manual tranny.

[shawndoggy]

31 minutes ago, gregtay said:

This would be fun... has air suspension 😬 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayenne-gts-4/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-06-25

they didn’t make many with the manual tranny.

oh dude you just ruined my day!  there was a row your own option?  I've never seen that!  Is it a gts only thing?  I've never really looked at the GTS, only the turbo, and I've never seen a turbo or turbo s with a manual.

[Asmodeus2112]

1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

No apprehensions about a late model VAG vehicle?  Touraeg is a cool vehicle but like all things VAG, it's a complex bit of kit.

 

 

44 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

They they are supposed to pull like a beast but are super complicated and very rare which means hard to get fixed if they break. Personally I would rather go the cayenne turbo route than the V10 tdi taureg. 

Vs your Honda (assuming your Honda experience has been good) with any of the three related German vehicles you are looking at you are gonna find out what it means to “break expensive.”

 

Yes, a lot of apprehension about expensive repairs. I'm not really considering the V10 T-reg. Honda experience has been good, and I DIY maintenance. Just had to put a new power steering pump on the 'ridge. That was $75 and less than an hour of time. This is probably the only thing holding me back from purchasing the 2015 Q7 3.0 TDI. Wife loves it, I really like it. 62k miles. Since I will only put about 8k on it per year and it's our third car I should get over it. May buy that tonight...

[JeffK]

42 minutes ago, gregtay said:

This would be fun... has air suspension 😬 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-cayenne-gts-4/?utm_source=dailymail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019-06-25

they didn’t make many with the manual tranny.

Thanks for that link.  I've just spent the last 20 minutes looking at things I shouldn't buy......

[asp13]

Bring a trailer is amazing. Love the cars that show up on there.

 

As for the manual GTS, that was the only Cayenne they made that had the 6 speed. Everything else is auto. And only a few of the GTS's were made in the 6speed.

[Eagleboy99]

Manual tranny was an option for the Cayenne starting in 04.  When I was in Europe a few years back, they had a turbo diesel with a manual.  THAT would have been a heckuva ride!

[theloungelife]

Just reporting in on my Touareg experience.  Bought a 2006 V8 Touareg in 2012 with 100K miles on it for $10K.  Vehicle has been used for winter driving and towing, when not using my daily driver (VW GTI).  Towed a 2003 VLX from 2015 to 2017 and then a 2013 A22 from 2017 to now.  This being over mountain passes in Utah.  Vehicle now has 155K miles on it.  In that time, I have replaced tires once and brakes once.  Also did the timing chain service, which was around $1800.  Other than that, it currently does have a few problems that are minor that I live with: headlights don't auto level anymore, engine light occasionally on for an emissions issue, and I have a door sensor that doesn't always work correctly.  

All in all I feel like it's been good to me.  Yes they are more expensive to fix than a F150, but it's not too brutal considering the initial investment.  Plus they're fun to drive and backing up the boat is a breeze compared to my friend's pickups.

[gregtay]

2 hours ago, JeffK said:

Thanks for that link.  I've just spent the last 20 minutes looking at things I shouldn't buy......

haha... yes.. Bring-A-trailer is a VERY dangerous site!!!

[RyanB]

The 3.0 VW TDI engines were the ones involved in the emissions scandal.  They all now come with an extended warranty that is something like 10 years 130,000 miles.

As far as German service rates, they are bad.  I have a Cayman S.  Shift cable broke a few years back (known problem).  Something like $2k to fix.  My normal independent shop raised their rates for an oil change to $406 (no, I didn't have them do it).

If you go Porsche, you will want to find a good, independent shop.

[minnmarker]

Gotta put a word in for the BMW X5.  6,000 lb. towing capacity (spec) and self leveling air suspension in the rear.  3 row SUV with great brakes and pulls nicely.

Not for the big boats but it has no problem with my 21LSV.

Service cost on BMWs is coming down now that there are more independent shops around - at least in Minneapolis.

[gregtay]

6 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

Gotta put a word in for the BMW X5.  6,000 lb. towing capacity (spec) and self leveling air suspension in the rear.  3 row SUV with great brakes and pulls nicely.

Not for the big boats but it has no problem with my 21LSV.

Service cost on BMWs is coming down now that there are more independent shops around - at least in Minneapolis.

I agree.. X5 does well.  I believe (depends on which year/model) but the leveling rear suspension is only added if you have the 3rd row option.  I also think the new X7 is going to be a nice tow rig with the v8.. but it is going to cost as much as a new boat.