Rip & replace factory subwoofer + enclosure...

[eubanks]

On 6/3/2019 at 1:27 PM, IXFE said:

 



 

Off-topic but is that your trailer with the Fuel Mavericks?  I just got those same wheels on the truck and would look sick on the trailer!

 

And great job on the sub box build.  Fun to follow along and looks amazing!  I am not the handyman you guys are so I guess I will stick with my sub par setup!

Edited August 1, 2019 by eubanks

[IXFE]

21 minutes ago, eubanks said:

Off-topic but is that your trailer with the Fuel Mavericks?  I just got those same wheels on the truck and would look sick on the trailer!

That was my 2015 23 LSV. 

I used to order my trailers from Boatmate with 14’s (free) but also with the wider fenders required for 18’s. Then I would upgrade to the Fuel Mavericks (to match my truck) thru the local Discount Tire. Then I would sell the 14’s back to my dealer. 

I did this two years in a row (14 & 15) and it was actually cheaper than just ordering 18’s from the factory. Plus you could basically choose any wheel you wanted so long as you knew the right size, offset, etc. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by IXFE

[eubanks]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

That was my 2015 23 LSV. 

I used to order my trailers from Boatmate with 14’s (free) but also with the wider fenders required for 18’s. Then I would upgrade to the Fuel Mavericks (to match my truck) thru the local Discount Tire. Then I would sell the 14’s back to my dealer. 

I did this two years in a row (14 & 15) and it was actually cheaper than just ordering 18’s from the factory. Plus you could basically choose any wheel you wanted so long as you knew the right size, offset, etc. 

 

Genius!  Guess I'm only 5 years behind the curve.  Maybe with the next boat...

Edited August 1, 2019 by eubanks

[IXFE]

Quick update... the sub sounds great!  

Also, I built another box for a friend with the same boat, and I decided to try DuraTex instead of resin. 

This stuff was expensive but a bit easier to work with. Maybe next time I’ll fill the screw holes. 

[shawndoggy]

Bondo works great for the screw holes. 

[ChicoSteve]

Awesome build thread. So I haven’t bought  a new boat yet, but I’m pretty sure I want to do a vented box in same area  I know I’d have to make a much larger cut out, and fabricate my own face plate. Couple questions; is there a reason you didn’t want to cut the fiberglass other than re use the factory face plate? And how large of a box could probably fit in there if fiberglass was cut? I’m thinking I’ll need about 1.7 gross. 

[IXFE]

20 hours ago, ChicoSteve said:

Awesome build thread. So I haven’t bought  a new boat yet, but I’m pretty sure I want to do a vented box in same area  I know I’d have to make a much larger cut out, and fabricate my own face plate. Couple questions; is there a reason you didn’t want to cut the fiberglass other than re use the factory face plate? And how large of a box could probably fit in there if fiberglass was cut? I’m thinking I’ll need about 1.7 gross. 

My goal was to keep the factory grill and factory look. So that meant no fiberglass cutting. I probably could have shaved some off and still made it work, but turns out you don’t need to. 

The constraint that will make a vented box (ie bigger box) challenging is the depth. Once inside the cavity you only have 12” of depth before you hit the ballast hoses. So that will limit what you can do. Knowing that, play around with the other dimensions and see if you can make it work. 

[Raffit78]

Can we be friends? Looking for a box!  

[David]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 12:53 AM, ChicoSteve said:

Awesome build thread. So I haven’t bought  a new boat yet, but I’m pretty sure I want to do a vented box in same area  I know I’d have to make a much larger cut out, and fabricate my own face plate. Couple questions; is there a reason you didn’t want to cut the fiberglass other than re use the factory face plate? And how large of a box could probably fit in there if fiberglass was cut? I’m thinking I’ll need about 1.7 gross. 

I completely agree with the advantage of a bass-reflex (vented) system. But not sure it's realistic in this particular boat. You can make a vented system smaller than the norm and still tune it to a deep frequency but you will lose most of the benefits offered by a vented system. To retain the benefits of bass-reflex, primarily greater efficiency and output, the gross external enclosure may grow 75% larger than a sealed enclosure for the same driver. So more like 2.75 to 3.0 cu.ft. external for a 12" subwoofer. I use 'external' because that's the size that has to fit the space. You could get creative in order to keep the dimensions smaller, like using a passive-bass-radiator (same basic principle as a port tube), or building a 2-piece enclosure with all or most of the port external to the enclosure. Ultimately you have to find the extra surface area (cutting fiberglass) to expose either the PBR or the port, and you can't downsize the port area without inviting noise. Another option is to have the face of the enclosure protruding out from the console. For this boat, I like this OP's build exactly as it is designed.    

[Gsxrnick]

You did a hell of a job. Thanks for such a detailed explanation. This factory wetsounds system is junk. Been watching to see what people have been doing to get better sound. Once again, thanks for all the info.

[23LSVOwner]

@IXFE, I may have read and forgotten or overlooked it.

Did you finish this and if so, how was the sound quality/output?

[IXFE]

On 10/31/2019 at 7:47 AM, 23LSVOwner said:

@IXFE, I may have read and forgotten or overlooked it.

Did you finish this and if so, how was the sound quality/output?

Yes!  I did complete this project and the result was outstanding. Much much better bass than the factory set up while maintaining the factory look, which I really like. 

[justgary]

20 hours ago, IXFE said:

Yes!  I did complete this project and the result was outstanding. Much much better bass than the factory set up while maintaining the factory look, which I really like. 

Great work on the subwoofer, but the woofer seems completely unimpressed.

[st22eve]

On 11/1/2019 at 11:23 AM, IXFE said:

Yes!  I did complete this project and the result was outstanding. Much much better bass than the factory set up while maintaining the factory look, which I really like. 

I just pulled my sub to check things out [17 22MXZ] the sub is the WS XS12 single VC 4ohm.  The internal measurements of my box is 12.5" tall 14.5" wide and 13" deep. The sealed box spec for this sub per WS is a maximum sealed enclosure of 1.2cft. The sub doesn't sound horrible but I will definitely be swapping ths DSP amp for the syn6 non DSP amp so I can tune myself. I already swapped the syndx2 DSP  with a syndx2.3hp for the 4rev8s.

Edited November 3, 2019 by st22eve

[MLA]

2 hours ago, st22eve said:

The internal measurements of my box is 12.5" tall 14.5" wide and 13" deep.

With these internal dimensions, you've got some room to reduce the internal volume and re-tune the enclosure. 

[David]

12.5" X 14.5" X 13" gross internal before the driver displacement reduction = a net displacement barely larger than the 1.2 cu.ft. recommendation. Probably not worth messing with. But, if you want exact, you could glue in a floral foam brick or two, and/or add a couple of thin stiffening braces and you're there.

[IXFE]

Kind of interesting that the new 17+ MXZ apparently has a different size enclosure (ie significantly larger) than that of the 18+ 23 LSV and the 19+ 25 LSV. 
 

I guess if an MXZ owner is satisfied with the construction of the factory box, there’s no need to replace it. In my case I still would have “ripped and replaced” because I found it was poorly installed (ie rattling against the back side of the helm wall). 

[pauley71]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:23 PM, IXFE said:

Yes!  I did complete this project and the result was outstanding. Much much better bass than the factory set up while maintaining the factory look, which I really like. 

This picture reminds me .. does the 25 LSV have a single drivers speaker without a matching "left"?  I was in the new 23 MXZ the other day and it has the drivers but not a match for it.  Curious how they power that speaker.

[IXFE]

14 minutes ago, pauley71 said:

This picture reminds me .. does the 25 LSV have a single drivers speaker without a matching "left"?  I was in the new 23 MXZ the other day and it has the drivers but not a match for it.  Curious how they power that speaker.

There’s a match for that speaker in the 25 LSV...

The port side of the boat is so long in the 25 there’s room for THREE speakers. 

I can’t speak for the 23 MXZ

[st22eve]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

Kind of interesting that the new 17+ MXZ apparently has a different size enclosure (ie significantly larger) than that of the 18+ 23 LSV and the 19+ 25 LSV. 
 

I guess if an MXZ owner is satisfied with the construction of the factory box, there’s no need to replace it. In my case I still would have “ripped and replaced” because I found it was poorly installed (ie rattling against the back side of the helm wall). 

Just a guess but maybe with the wider area of the pickle fork vs the traditional bow they can build a box better to spec. I popped out the little black storage cubby behind the starboard side bow/back cushion to get a better look at the box and its solid to the floor and nothing is touching it. When I had the sub out I did caulk all the inside seams and did the push test after, the sub popped back out very very slow so I'm thinking the box is sealed pretty well. With that being said......it definitely needs the proper power going to it. This DSP syn6 tune is waaaaay to conservative. 

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

There’s a match for that speaker in the 25 LSV...

The port side of the boat is so long in the 25 there’s room for THREE speakers. 

I can’t speak for the 23 MXZ

good thing nobody ever sits there!

[MLA]

On 11/2/2019 at 5:57 PM, MLA said:

With these internal dimensions, you've got some room to reduce the internal volume and re-tune the enclosure. 

I doubled check my math and even ran the dimensions through a calculator app. As before, I come up with: 

Gross internal of 1.363 ft3.

woofer displacement of .08 ft3

= net internal of 1.28 ft3. 

This puts the enclosure's QTC .697.

IMO, this leaves .2 ft  of wiggle room to reduce the internal volume, and raise the QTC. This may result in a positive change in woofer SQ for st22eve. 

[David]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 12:44 PM, MLA said:

I doubled check my math and even ran the dimensions through a calculator app. As before, I come up with: 

Gross internal of 1.363 ft3.

woofer displacement of .08 ft3

= net internal of 1.28 ft3. 

This puts the enclosure's QTC .697.

IMO, this leaves .2 ft  of wiggle room to reduce the internal volume, and raise the QTC. This may result in a positive change in woofer SQ for st22eve. 

Mike, you're right. Good info! If that's the math based on the T/S parameters, then a Qtc of .697 is definitely low and dry sounding. Maybe closer to optimum for a home subwoofer, but you need a higher Qtc and a little bit of crested output, more live and punchy, in an open boat, or car/truck/SUV for that matter, for very different reasons. Aiming for a Qtc target of .8 for a 10" sub and .85 for a 12" sub. So if the existing enclosure is airtight, the change is not worth an enclosure reconstruction, but definitely worth experimenting with some displacement reduction.

      

[st22eve]

5 hours ago, David said:

Mike, you're right. Good info! If that's the math based on the T/S parameters, then a Qtc of .697 is definitely low and dry sounding. Maybe closer to optimum for a home subwoofer, but you need a higher Qtc and a little bit of crested output, more live and punchy, in an open boat, or car/truck/SUV for that matter, for very different reasons. Aiming for a Qtc target of .8 for a 10" sub and .85 for a 12" sub. So if the existing enclosure is airtight, the change is not worth an enclosure reconstruction, but definitely worth experimenting with some displacement reduction.

      

Would 12.5" tall by 13" deep and 13" wide get me where I need to be? It would be easiest to add 3/4" of something to each internal side wall to take out 1.5" of internal volume.

[MLA]

2 hours ago, st22eve said:

Would 12.5" tall by 13" deep and 13" wide get me where I need to be? It would be easiest to add 3/4" of something to each internal side wall to take out 1.5" of internal volume.

As long as the material is dense, secured and does not interfere with the woofer, it does not have to be installed symmetrically. The goal is to be as close as possible, to how much your added material reduces the internal volume. 

I like Dave's suggestion of the foam blocks. If you like the direction its going, but them find you added too much and want to back off, its easy to cut some out and increase the volume.