Rip & replace factory subwoofer + enclosure...

[IXFE]

Final pic before signing off for the week.  Really wanted to get this done but life happens... 

[shawndoggy]

Even though nobody will ever see it, not gonna lie, I like how clean the taped off front looks. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by shawndoggy

[pauley71]

Houses have trim that's been painted for hundreds of years.  I think a couple coats of exterior paint, inside and out would be simpler .. no?  Not a  criticism, just always looking for a simpler way .. looks awesome!

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, pauley71 said:

Houses have trim that's been painted for hundreds of years.  I think a couple coats of exterior paint, inside and out would be simpler .. no?  Not a  criticism, just always looking for a simpler way .. looks awesome!

There are lots of opinions on TMC for how best to waterproof a box (as you can probably tell from this thread). I built a BEAST of a box four years ago for a 23 LSV. It was twice as big (ported), was built from 1” MDF (1.5” on the face). I covered that box in spray on the bedliner... the kind that comes in a can. I was super unimpressed. It’s basically spray paint with sand mixed in... nothing like real spray-in bedliner. 

So this year I wanted to take it up a notch. The resin was actually a lot simpler than a couple of coats of spray paint and it’s gonna be a lot more effective. 

[23LSVOwner]

19 hours ago, IXFE said:

There are lots of opinions on TMC for how best to waterproof a box (as you can probably tell from this thread). I built a BEAST of a box four years ago for a 23 LSV. It was twice as big (ported), was built from 1” MDF (1.5” on the face). I covered that box in spray on the bedliner... the kind that comes in a can. I was super unimpressed. It’s basically spray paint with sand mixed in... nothing like real spray-in bedliner. 

So this year I wanted to take it up a notch. The resin was actually a lot simpler than a couple of coats of spray paint and it’s gonna be a lot more effective. 

Solid work.

[IXFE]

17 hours ago, 23LSVOwner said:

Solid work.

Thanks man, that was back in 2015 and SOLID is a good word for it. Total weight incl. the woofer was 80 lbs. 

[carguy79ta]

Waiting for the next episode..

[IXFE]

I’m back!  While I was out of town I had lots of time to contemplate next steps. It’s nerve wracking because I feel like I only get one shot at this, and the last thing I want to do is wreck the box I just built. So lots of thinking about order of operations, constraints, etc. I’m almost 100% sure I’m still not thinking of something. 

To review, I have to install the empty box before I install the woofer in the box, otherwise there would be no way of securing the box to the floor; it must be done from the inside as there’s almost zero room outside. Also, the box won’t pass through the hole with the woofer installed. 

I can’t install the box as is because the hole for the woofer is too low (due to 13.5” height needed to pass through the hole). This will make it impossible to get the 8th mounting screw in (which the factory also skipped). Maybe that’s not a big deal, but it bothers me so... Need to raise the floor.

So what should I use? After considering all sorts of options, I think I’m going to use the HDPE from the factory box I have sitting in a pile in my garage. But first...

Yesterday I did another test fit in the boat. 

 

Pic 1 - Box in boat without anything raising it up. 

Pic 2 - Box in boat with 3/4 HDPE below it. 

 

While I’m not sure that amount of lift will be enough to access the screw in the 6:00 position, if I raise it much more I face the same issue at the 12:00 position (remember, my cutout is only 12.5” high). 

[ahopkins22LSV]

Could you notch the fiberglass and to get to that screw? I don’t know how much the factor sub grill over laps the opening though. 

[IXFE]

Then I started worrying about screwing into the floor. Even though the factory did it with really long lag screws, I wondered if there was anything down there I could accidentally damage. Who knows, maybe the factory is placing those long screws with precision.  

Let’s take a look at the floor...

Pic 1 - The blue tape is where the back/left corner of the box should be placed. The green circles show were the factory lag screws went through. Note that the screw on the right goes through the seam between the HDPE floor and the fiberglass. I think that answers the question about factory precision!   Anyway, that hole was hard to find... notice that I used a nail to make sure what I was seeing was actually a screw hole!  Also note that the screw on the left goes into HDPE with a void below it (for all those hoses). To the left of that screw there’s a stringer under the HDPE floor.  Something tells me I don’t want to screw into the stringer.  Or is that okay??

Pic 2 (repost) - The factory lag screws. They only used two... more on that below!

Edited June 10, 2019 by IXFE

[IXFE]

15 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Could you notch the fiberglass and to get to that screw? I don’t know how much the factor sub grill over laps the opening though. 

Either that or drill a small hole. Not sure I have enough overlap with the grill. Plus, don’t really want to cut fiberglass... mostly out of principle at this point. I’ve made it this far!!

[IXFE]

Now let’s examine the HDPE pieces I have at my disposal and examine a few options... 

Note: in all pics below the box is upside-down, baffle at the bottom of the pic.

Option 1 - Use what’s left is the back of the factory box to build up the floor. Line it up with the back left corner (blue tape in the pic above). This produces maximum contact patch between my new box and the floor. 

Option 2 - Use two smaller scraps and run them front to back. This produces minimum contact patch between my new box and floor.  But in the event of water intrusion (by the next guy) it allows water to pass under box without hitting (even though it is water resistant). 

Option 3 - Same as Option 2 only move the two pieces towards the center.

Option 4 - Use the bottom of the factory box (note the “B” inscribed in that piece) aligned with front of the box. Note that it’s already drilled in four places (although the factory only uses two lag screws creating potential air leaks). I don’t know why but I kinda like this option. 

Any thoughts...??

[IXFE]

More context...

After much thought, regardless of which option above, I’m going to re-use the thin foam pieces from the factory box and place them between the new box and the HDPE pieces. 

I’m also going recycle the #10 1.5” stainless crews from the factory box... the plan is to use them to BOTH mount the HDPE to the floor AND the new box to the HDPE. 1.5” seems like the right length the provide enough “bite” without over-penetrating. 

[surfdude]

Alrighty then!! I only have 9 hrs on my boat. Barely enough for the 10 hr service. Last year only got 70 cause of weather!

[surfdude]

Mines okay, but rattling something under the dash . It’s just okay though 

Edited June 10, 2019 by surfdude

[IXFE]

2 hours ago, surfdude said:

Mines okay, but rattling something under the dash . It’s just okay though 

That’s kinda how I felt about my factory sub last year.... “just okay”

This year I think I just for a bad copy. It happens with any product. There are a lot of variables involved in a good sounding sub; I can see how it would be easy to get one or two wrong. 

I was studying the factory speaker wire tonight from INSIDE the box. Figured I’d reuse it. Didn’t pay much attention to it until I looked closely tonight... it’s 30” long, which is crazy!  I suspect this long cord rattling around was the cause of some of the noise I was hearing from inside the box. 

[carguy79ta]

Maybe the extra length is to make it easier to wire the speaker before setting it in thebox..??.🤔

[IXFE]

54 minutes ago, carguy79ta said:

Maybe the extra length is to make it easier to wire the speaker before setting it in thebox..??.🤔

Oh, I’m sure that’s true. Still it’s not exactly best practice. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

12 hours ago, IXFE said:

Either that or drill a small hole. Not sure I have enough overlap with the grill. Plus, don’t really want to cut fiberglass... mostly out of principle at this point. I’ve made it this far!!

Oh I know, I'd feel the same way! The whole having the box secured to the floor before the woofer install really makes that tricky!

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, IXFE said:

Oh, I’m sure that’s true. Still it’s not exactly best practice. 

I don't think it matters if it's stuffed with poly fill? (I know it wasn't from factory).

But I'd want a longish pigtail myownself especially since you will need to mount up the sub while holding it vertically in the mounted box... with only two hands.  Not easy... and close to impossible if you also have to attach a short speaker wire.

[IXFE]

10 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

I don't think it matters if it's stuffed with poly fill? (I know it wasn't from factory).

But I'd want a longish pigtail myownself especially since you will need to mount up the sub while holding it vertically in the mounted box... with only two hands.  Not easy... and close to impossible if you also have to attach a short speaker wire.

Agreed on the poly fill comment, but as you said, factory doesn’t use it (although they should given how grossly undersized their box is), and neither will I (given how perfectly sized my box is). 

I watched a video recently from CAF who made me rethink this. I’ll share it here so you can see what I’m talking about and why I’m suddenly sensitive to a 30” loose wire inside the box. 

The fact is I had TWO persistent noises coming from my factory sub: 1) box rattling against the fiberglass, and 2) rattle coming from inside the box. When I took the factory sub out I fully expected to find some loose object in there. I didn’t, it was empty save for this 30” wire. 

 

[shawndoggy]

I think you might like polyfill. Bigger sealed box will play lower, smaller will be punchier, all things being equal. I think most of today’s listening (808s) favors lows over transient punch (fast kick drums). And the difference wouldn’t ever be that stark between the two. Plus it will keep your wire from rattling :-)

[barefootpaul]

Can the wire enter the box from the top? Free hanging as to not have anything to rattle against.

[IXFE]

52 minutes ago, barefootpaul said:

Can the wire enter the box from the top? Free hanging as to not have anything to rattle against.

Yes, anywhere on top or back. But as Shawn pointed out, I need just enough slack to hook up the woofer just before mounting it 

[shawndoggy]

In lieu of a terminal cup, someone did a box on here in the semi ancient past using machine screws for the wire.  So drill two holes in the box, just big enough for machine screws to pass through.  on the inside, the pigtail wires are on ring terminals that go on the screw heads.  silicone is squirted in the screw holes, then screws are inserted, flat washers on top then nuts.  Then ring terminals from the amp wire goes on top of the protruding screw/nut, with a second nut with lock washer on top of that.  Maybe @Cory did it that way?  I thought that was pretty slick.