8 bolts for intake manifold. Replace?

[mikeo]

2 hours ago, hawaiianstyln said:

Also I see that the second pass torque spec is 106lbs/in.  I was going to buy the 3/8 torque wrench but they only go up to 100 lb/in and would probably have to get the 1/2 wrench.  Might be wise to rent those wrenches from autozone, those wrenches aren't cheap.

Lower Intake Manifold Bolt

First Pass in Sequence 27 lb in

Second Pass in Sequence 106 lb in

Final Pass in Sequence 11 lb ft

Use the previous advice and go to Harbor Freight, but don't buy a torque wrench. Get this instead:
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-digital-torque-adapter-63917.html

The digital torque adapter will measure whatever wrench you have. It's not a click-type, but the beeping works well for me.

[hawaiianstyln]

Oh man i didnt see that and was just there. That is sweet!!  Thanks for sharing about to head back and get that one

[MLA]

Quote

Torque range: 29.5 to 147.6 ft. lbs. (40 to 200 NM)

ft/lb only, no in/lb also.

[justgary]

2 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Never heard of that stuff!  Will have to look it up I guess.  I've always used locker  or anti-seize.

Permatex #80019, "Aviation Form-A-Gasket".  A 4 oz can is nearly a lifetime supply if you only use it for fasteners. 

[oldjeep]

1 hour ago, justgary said:

Permatex #80019, "Aviation Form-A-Gasket".  A 4 oz can is nearly a lifetime supply if you only use it for fasteners. 

Never used it as a threadlocker, but it is the only dressing i use on valve cover gaskets and oil pan gaskets.  Wear gloves, stuff is almost as messy as antiseize. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by oldjeep

[justgary]

It's not a true thread locker, but it will stop things from vibrating out.  

Around here, the usual problem is getting the fastener out after it has been around salt water for a few minutes.  It works well to keep things from corroding in place. 

[Eagleboy99]

@justgary - I have to generally use anti-seize for titanium.  Much diff than the usual stuff.  And messier. 

 

@HS - I had one of those digital things - never trusted it and it crapped out on me so I go with a good mechanical (not pointer style!) torque wrenches.  Park Tool makes  some awesome ones.  Dewalt, too.

[hawaiianstyln]

My only concern now is that comes in 1/2 for lb/ft and i wouod need lb/in on the first two passes 

[justgary]

The harbor freight 1/4" torque wrench is 20-200 in-lbs.  They go on sale all the time for about $10.

[MLA]

12 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

My only concern now is that comes in 1/2 for lb/ft and i wouod need lb/in on the first two passes 

The first 2 passes in in/lb is not biggest issue, its, based on the listing, it does not read below 29 ft/lb, and your final pass if only 11. Not knocking the tool, ive never used and have all the bases covered with 4 torque wrenches, just pointing out I do not think it will work for your intake bolt application. 

[hawaiianstyln]

9 minutes ago, justgary said:

The harbor freight 1/4" torque wrench is 20-200 in-lbs.  They go on sale all the time for about $10.

My bad then because i thought the 1/4 and 3/8 was only 100 max

[justgary]

If you did the second pass at 100 instead of 106, you would still be fine.  We're not talking about a heck of a lot of torque here.  Just do them all the same and end at 11 ft-lbs.

[Insert your own "we go to 11" meme here]

[hawaiianstyln]

Okay good to know thank you!!!

[oldjeep]

12 hours ago, justgary said:

If you did the second pass at 100 instead of 106, you would still be fine.  We're not talking about a heck of a lot of torque here.  Just do them all the same and end at 11 ft-lbs.

[Insert your own "we go to 11" meme here]

 

[shawndoggy]

This is just the intake manifold, right?  I mean the bolts are just holding the manifold into the "valley" in the block right?  Have you ever heard of an undertorqued intake manifold falling off?

Call me crazy and I'm not a "real" mechanic, but this doesn't seem like a mission critical place where you are going to goof something up by not getting torque spot on (other than going  crazy Hulk-style and using your breaker bar to tighten it up).  It's not like this is a connecting rod or frankly lug nuts (which as OJ wisely points out aren't really torqued specifically and the wheels manage to stay on) where you are holding moving parts together.  

drip a little loc-tite on the threads of the old bolts and tighten in three passes and call it good.  Go to harbor freight and buy a torque wrench if you feel compelled to go buy a new tool (yay new tools!), but I wouldn't lose sleep by tightening to "pretty snug" by hand at the last pass.

(IMHO, which ain't worth much).

[oldjeep]

6 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

This is just the intake manifold, right?  I mean the bolts are just holding the manifold into the "valley" in the block right?  Have you ever heard of an undertorqued intake manifold falling off?

Call me crazy and I'm not a "real" mechanic, but this doesn't seem like a mission critical place where you are going to goof something up by not getting torque spot on (other than going  crazy Hulk-style and using your breaker bar to tighten it up).  It's not like this is a connecting rod or frankly lug nuts (which as OJ wisely points out aren't really torqued specifically and the wheels manage to stay on) where you are holding moving parts together.  

drip a little loc-tite on the threads of the old bolts and tighten in three passes and call it good.  Go to harbor freight and buy a torque wrench if you feel compelled to go buy a new tool (yay new tools!), but I wouldn't lose sleep by tightening to "pretty snug" by hand at the last pass.

(IMHO, which ain't worth much).

For old style American V8's  the german torque spec works pretty good for almost everything - Gutentite

[MLA]

30 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

but this doesn't seem like a mission critical place where you are going to goof something up by not getting torque spot on

Sure can! You've water jackets passing between the block and intake, right next to intake runners. Too loose, water bleeds past gasket into block or combustion chamber. Too tight and you damage the gasket, especially those that are not the paper style, and you get water in. Improper torque and you could get a vacuum leak in one of the intake runners. This can pull air from the outside. It can also pull from the engine internally, which can also draw oil into the cylinder.   

[oldjeep]

8 minutes ago, MLA said:

Sure can! You've water jackets passing between the block and intake, right next to intake runners. Too loose, water bleeds past gasket into block or combustion chamber. Too tight and you damage the gasket, especially those that are not the paper style, and you get water in. Improper torque and you could get a vacuum leak in one of the intake runners. This can pull air from the outside. It can also pull from the engine internally, which can also draw oil into the cylinder.   

Paper style? What kind of crappy gaskets are you using? This is not rocket science, and a good quality metal felpro valley pan gasket is pretty tough to mess up.  Granted, ive only rebuilt about a dozen engines, but this stuff isnt rocket science. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by oldjeep

[justgary]

18 minutes ago, MLA said:

Sure can! You've water jackets passing between the block and intake, right next to intake runners. Too loose, water bleeds past gasket into block or combustion chamber. Too tight and you damage the gasket, especially those that are not the paper style, and you get water in. Improper torque and you could get a vacuum leak in one of the intake runners. This can pull air from the outside. It can also pull from the engine internally, which can also draw oil into the cylinder.   

And all we are trying to say is that even if your wrist or torque wrench are miscalibrated by 20% or so,  you are probably still good on an intake manifold.  Yes, a gross error will cause trouble, but these things were designed before set-and-click torque wrenches were standard.  I'm sure I got a few bolts wrong  in my youth with my old needle-indicating wrench, especially at the very low and very high ends of the scale.

Get it perfect if you can, but don't spend all day looking for the exact tool to use on this one....

Did I ever tell you the story of the Ford 302 head bolt?  I broke three bolts torquing them to the value shown in the Ford service manual.  When I went back to the store to buy yet another bolt, I asked if I could speak to the machinist in the back.  I showed him my book and asked him to tell me what torque to use.  He looked and instantly told me a number much lower than I was using.  IIRC, he said 106 and I was using 121.  Anyway, turns out that the way the table was printed somehow led me to use the 351 number (every time I looked it up).  If you want to know, they all broke right at the surface of the block.  No drilling required though, I could just turn them out with my finger.  Yes, it drew a little metal up from the block, and I had to file it away.  Sheesh!

[MLA]

3 hours ago, oldjeep said:

What kind of crappy gaskets are you using?

sarcastic much? Never seen a paper gasket i guess. 

[oldjeep]

49 minutes ago, MLA said:

sarcastic much? Never seen a paper gasket i guess. 

Ive seen them, they were in my 1946 willys engine before i rebuilt it and replaced with modern high quality gaskets. 

[MadMan]

When Chevy went to MPI in the mid '90s, they no longer needed an exhaust crossover in the intake manifold.   Because of this, they were able to reduce the number of bolts attaching it to 8,  all of which clamp the water passages.  The intake ports get no dedicated bolts.