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Gara

Prop Recommendations for LESS hole shot 2002 Response

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Gara

I have the ACME 525 on the Corvette LS-1 engine, 2002 Response.  Just purchased used. Beautiful rig but overpowered for our family slalom skiing.  

Wondering if anyone has suggestions for less hole shot and possibly more efficiency though that's not critical.  I do have a 515 lying around but that's probably not much difference.  The 525 is 13 X 11.5, the 515 is I think 13 x 12.

Thanks!

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UWSkier
11 minutes ago, Gara said:

I have the ACME 525 on the Corvette LS-1 engine, 2002 Response.  Just purchased used. Beautiful rig but overpowered for our family slalom skiing.  

Wondering if anyone has suggestions for less hole shot and possibly more efficiency though that's not critical.  I do have a 515 lying around but that's probably not much difference.  The 525 is 13 X 11.5, the 515 is I think 13 x 12.

Thanks!

Would you be interested in a swap for a stainless prop?  I can find out the model in a couple days but I have a stainless 13x12 on my boat but it has a fair amount of cup.  It's less than 100:1 RPM to speed.  34.2MPH is like 3360 RPM.  It's a fine holeshot if you go to WOT to pull my 250+ lb behind out on a slalom ski but isn't an arm ripper.  I'd be interested in the 515.  PM me if you'd be interested.

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SkiPablo

I have both props and the ls1 and it’s not a not a lot difference in hole shot.  I would say 15 percent difference.    We use the 525 bc we have a lot of people usually and our boat is bigger.    I think you just need to get used to giving less throttle.  I usually do about a 2 second push from idle to 1/2 throttle.   

You might consider the 449 prop but if you do make sure you stay in the 5300-5600 rpm range for full throttle.

If you sell the 525 I might be interested 

Edited by SkiPablo

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formulaben

Take your 515 to the local prop shop and have them add more cupping.

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Eagleboy99

JUst use less throttle.  :)

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ahopkinsVTX
32 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

JUst use less throttle.  :)

:plus1: 

Why not just be less aggressive on the throttle? You don’t have to hammer it, just roll it forward. 

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RTS

Pull the connections on 3 fuel injectors.

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Eagleboy99
8 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

:plus1: 

Why not just be less aggressive on the throttle? You don’t have to hammer it, just roll it forward. 

True story.  Neighbour at the lake has this I/O with a hopped up 383 Mercruiser in it.  Runs like  a scalded cat.  Every time he pulls someone up to ski it is FULL THROTTLE.  KInda fun to watch the carnage.  :) 

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Chaabo

Put on the 515 and learn how to apply throttle the right way when you pull skiers. Enjoy the holeshot when driving the boat without someone skiing. :)

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Woodski

@Gara:  An Acme 449 will drop your RPM at speed by about 200 so that would improve fuel economy, and it would reduce your holeshot a bit.  The 515 is the primary prop spec'd for that boat, the 525 is suggested for higher altitudes or if you load the boat a lot.

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Michigan boarder

I have an Acme 425 (13x13 with .80 cup) on my Echelon with a 380hp engine.  At WOT it runs 4,900rpms and 49mph, and there is way more hole shot than I need, but also good top end efficiency for cruising and/or barefooting.

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Woodski

@Gara:  I would start your prop selection process by giving the 515 a shot, that way you will start to understand the effect.  Sounds like this may be your first tournament ski boat, what are you coming from?  You will quickly find that operating a tournament ski boat takes some specific techniques, the most basic example is operating in reverse where it wants to track to starboard.  As you have noted, they tend to have an abundance of low end power.  A tournament ski boat will top out at just under or around 50 mph, track and handle extremely well, be very stable but will easily get swamped in rough water coming over the bow and offer a great skiing / barefooting and general water sports experience.  As noted, it really becomes the drivers responsibility to control and apply the throttle smoothly and progressively to not overpower your skier / rider.  You simply do not apply full throttle to pull up your skier / rider, I simply roll on the throttle very similar to pulling away from a stop light in a car, weight of skier and get up style dictates the specific amount.  I always ask this question "how do you like your pull up?".  The driver makes a huge difference in a tournament ski boat.

I suggest you take some time to review threads on operating a tournament ski boat, some of the handling specifics can catch out a novice but once adept, offer much better operating capability compared to your traditional I/O, etc.

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JasonK

On my Response is a 425 and I find if I hammer full throttle as fast as you can, the prop slips and doesn't pull as hard as if I go to full throttle slower. On my 90 Euro I would tell the drivers "drop it fast to full throttle". On my Response I have to tell them "roll" into it, don't drop it too fast, and it actually pulls harder.

My Response is setup for a short course barefoot tournament, so it needs holeshot and high top end for those big footers.

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Gara

All, thanks for all the very helpful advice.  

Regarding driving skills, the issue is that someone has to pull ME and occasionally the kids.  That someone will not take lessons, and did not grow up on boats.  So, I'm nursing a majorly pulled back for the last two days, again.  (Haven't figure out how to hold on tight with the hands, yet be ready to let go; relax and float, but be ready for a serious launch). 

Plus, I would be interested in fuel efficiency since we will be on the water a lot.  Our last boat was a Tige Lxi, which had 330HP but the throttle just had better control.  Maybe I need to work on the throttle body on this Corvette engine.  It is not smooth and even. 

Thanks for all the other advice.  Full throttle -- haven't tried that (skiing).  Also trying the 515 first, and maybe the 425 and 449.  My 525 and 515 are on ebay but maybe I'll cup the 515 first, as suggested.  Is this a forum where people can recommend prop shops? I've used one which is excellent but very expensive.

ACME just recommended their 1469 which is a four blade 12.5X 12.5.  I wonder if anyone has experience with that.

Great community! Tige's was very quiet.....

 

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dlb
5 hours ago, Gara said:

All, thanks for all the very helpful advice.  

Regarding driving skills, the issue is that someone has to pull ME and occasionally the kids.  That someone will not take lessons, and did not grow up on boats.  So, I'm nursing a majorly pulled back for the last two days, again.  (Haven't figure out how to hold on tight with the hands, yet be ready to let go; relax and float, but be ready for a serious launch). 

Plus, I would be interested in fuel efficiency since we will be on the water a lot.  Our last boat was a Tige Lxi, which had 330HP but the throttle just had better control.  Maybe I need to work on the throttle body on this Corvette engine.  It is not smooth and even. 

Thanks for all the other advice.  Full throttle -- haven't tried that (skiing).  Also trying the 515 first, and maybe the 425 and 449.  My 525 and 515 are on ebay but maybe I'll cup the 515 first, as suggested.  Is this a forum where people can recommend prop shops? I've used one which is excellent but very expensive.

ACME just recommended their 1469 which is a four blade 12.5X 12.5.  I wonder if anyone has experience with that.

Great community! Tige's was very quiet.....

 

The solution is Perfect Pass or another speed control product with an auto up mode, otherwise known as the marriage saver.....

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Woodski

@Gara:  A 4 blade prop will actually improve the holeshot not reduce it.  Relatively easy to read between the lines, who will she take lessons from?  I coach many a spouse...why, because the significant other (male) simply is not and never will be qualified to do so, as I was not with my significant other, simple fact of life.  As noted, Perfect Pass is known as a marriage saver for good reason.

Edited by Woodski

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asnowman

@Gara where are you located? Perhaps one of our more slalom focused members is nearby?

My wife didn't know anything about skiing or boats when we met. Now the boats are her toys, and she drives as much or more than i do. Your wife can learn, but it may take a different person to teach her as @Woodski suggested. We have both benefitted from having very experienced drivers skiing and driving for us.

And since you mentioned it, i have a really bad back as a result of snow skiing mishaps over the years and have had to learn to really lay back and be more straight when getting up skiing, not the balled up technique i learned as a kid. Its made a huge difference in the amount of pain resulting from getting up. 

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SkiPablo

don't go 4 blade, the wake is not as good on these boats.  I would go with the 449 based on what you are saying - i would not go any higher in pitch than that.   

we came from a bayliner with a 125 hp outboard - for years it was just hammer the throttle and hold on for 5 seconds.   It took my wife a few days to figure out the new boat but after she did I'm up in 2 seconds usually and I'm not light - every once in a while my friend forgets and hammers me up and I usually feel it the next day.

are you wearing gloves ?

Edited by SkiPablo

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Gara

Great ideas re: the teaching.  Should have thought of that.  I'll ask a couple of the more patient, older guys we ski with occasionally.  Should have thought of that

Even better, the fellow who owned the boat removed Perfect Pass but I'll work on getting that back connected and running.  I think as a barefooter they just hammered it.  Forgot PP will deal with the acceleration too.  Hopefully it is functioning.  That may be my next set of posts.....

Thanks for the 4 blade info as well.  I did talk to a somewhat local shop by phone yesterday and they said the same about it increasing hole shot which is not what I need.

Great info, thanks very much.  I have some questions on getting a strainer in and / or flush kit which I'll post separately. Also on whether / when heat exchanger and manifolds should be cleaned or replaced.

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asnowman

@Gara where are you running this boat? The specific environment you run in will dictate things like manifold changes. Strainers can be good if you hsve lots of debris in the water, but can also be an unnecessary pain. 

Lots of info on installing a flush kit in here though, have some fun searching and learning!

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mackie12

@Gara I was in the same position a few years back, perfect pass (Marriage saver) is a MUST have item. I am running the Acme 515 on my response as I like the hole shot better then the 525 ( I have both) and don't seem to notice any top end difference between the two, but do notice a big difference in the hole shot.

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Gara

Thanks Mackie12.  Is the 515 a quicker or a less quick hole shot?

 

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Gara

snowman, in RI on a river that is salt/brackish. Sometimes clean, sometimes debris.  So I pull and flush after every ski and have always done so, but friends have strainers that catches some stuff.  Probably would move through the system but who knows.

This has the LS 1 Corvette engine, so it is partially closed cooling.  It runs at 170-73 which Indmar says I shouldn't worry about.  But my questions are:

-- do the rebuild kids for heat exchangers make sense (they are cheap)

-what kind of strainer to put and where.  The Indmar seems to have a 90 deg. I already have a 90 coming off the hull.  [Seem unable to paste photos}.  There is a brass 90 as soon as the intake comes through the hunt, then it winds around by the bilge drain plug and up to the impeller. 

 

 

Edited by Gara
additional info in place of photos

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