25LSV G4 tower rewire for rev10s

[CJAY]

Just to make sure, 

22 hours ago, IXFE said:

@CJAY

Call Exile. They have an adaptor that will plug into the factory wiring for your tower amp. It basically has the factory plug on one end and rca and remote wires on the other end. 

I think I was the first to pull apart the G4 back in 2015. Maybe search for my thread (not sure if the pics survived the photobucket deal). Anyway, you’re gonna struggle to get another run of speaker wire in their. It’s very right the entire run and you’d have to cut the existing wire out of the sheath that surrounds it and is also attached to the inside channel of the tower. I punted and ended up rewriring the top of the tower from parallel to series. That way I could run an amp to each pair of speakers. 

Let me see if I can find those old pics

What amp did your them in series with?

[IXFE]

17 minutes ago, CJAY said:

Just to make sure, 

What amp did your them in series with?

Well I was installing Exile amps on that boat. I used two XM30.2’s to power two pair of factory Rev 8’s. Remeber, back then the factory tower amp was Rockford Fosgate. Yuck!  And nobody had figured out how to get Rev10’s on the G4. 

Anywho... when I read your post I was assuming you’re taking about two separate amps (one for each pair of Rev10’s). 

Are we sure you can mount two pair of Rev10’s to the G4?  

[MLA]

yes, we are.

With twin bridged 4 chnls running 2 pair of speakers, you cant do a series/bridge configuration.You will need a 2-conductor p/pod. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by MLA

[CJAY]

10 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Well I was installing Exile amps on that boat. I used two XM30.2’s to power two pair of factory Rev 8’s. Remeber, back then the factory tower amp was Rockford Fosgate. Yuck!  And nobody had figured out how to get Rev10’s on the G4. 

Anywho... when I read your post I was assuming you’re taking about two separate amps (one for each pair of Rev10’s). 

Are we sure you can mount two pair of Rev10’s to the G4?  

I want to do two separate amps, but the rewiring of the tower is sounding uglier then I want to delve into before summer

[Fman]

4 hours ago, lonestar said:

I would not recommend red thread locker for those bolts. Blue would be better. Red requires heat to remove. Don't think you want to be torching  your tower to remove (assuming you may need to remove one day).

I totally agree.   I just replaced two struts on my G4, I used blue on the actual strut bolts when reinstalling, although the PDF file recommends red.  Complete overkill imo.  That blue will hold with no issues.

FWIW it was a PIA to break free the two board rack bolts that hold the plate on.  I thought I was going to snap my allen wrench.  I would recommend getting a socket style allen head to get all the bolts out.  They are definitely not easy to remove.  I was able to use a socket style on all other bolts on the tower and it made it significantly easier.

[IXFE]

4 minutes ago, CJAY said:

I want to do two separate amps, but the rewiring of the tower is sounding uglier then I want to delve into before summer

Switching from parallel to series isn’t terrible. You don’t even have to take the arms apart, just the top pieces (alot less bolts). Then your basically running an amp to each side (one right, one left). It’s probably not ideal and I’m sure somebody smarter than me will tell you why, but I have done this on my last three boats with great results. @Fman did this to his G4 also. @shawndoggy also helped me out a lot this back in the day. 

[IXFE]

Sorry for the exile pic, but this is a good visual to follow (shows one amp hooked up to one pair) 

[CJAY]

10 hours ago, MLA said:

yes, we are.

With twin bridged 4 chnls running 2 pair of speakers, you cant do a series/bridge configuration.You will need a 2-conductor p/pod. 

Is there an amp, or two, you’d recommend for this?

[CJAY]

10 hours ago, IXFE said:

Sorry for the exile pic, but this is a good visual to follow (shows one amp hooked up to one pair) 

That looks like they have it wired in bridge mode

[MLA]

5 hours ago, CJAY said:

Is there an amp, or two, you’d recommend for this?

Sure! For two pair of Rev-10, the Wet Sound Syn-DX2.3HP is awesome. 300W rms to each pod and it can be done with a single 12ga 4 conductor routed up one side of the tower. Pods are wired in parallel to a junction with each pair of 12ga, much like it is from the factory, just larger ga wire for the extra wattage. 

[CJAY]

25 minutes ago, MLA said:

Sure! For two pair of Rev-10, the Wet Sound Syn-DX2.3HP is awesome. 300W rms to each pod and it can be done with a single 12ga 4 conductor routed up one side of the tower. Pods are wired in parallel to a junction with each pair of 12ga, much like it is from the factory, just larger ga wire for the extra wattage. 

I just talked to wetsounds and that’s what they recommend also.  Said it gives me a bit more tuning room also, since it’s right at rms for power of the speakers.

[COOP]

6 hours ago, CJAY said:

That looks like they have it wired in bridge mode

Yup. Series wired for 8ohm bridged, provided the speakers are 4ohm each. Should be same power as 4ohm stereo.

Edited April 5, 2018 by COOP

[hunter77ah]

How much of a difference is there between 12g and whatever the stock gauge is?

[COOP]

The stock wire is 16awg. There is a calculation to see how much power you loose based on wire length and power, but I dont know it off the top of my head. For really long runs (over 100ft) if you dont use big enough wire you get whats called insertion loss. The actual impedance of the wire length will actually cause you to loose volume. But you have to get into really long runs. the loss between 16awg and 12awg over the run in the boat, 20ft? will be less than 1/3 db. Now, having said that, bigger gauge wire will help the amp run a bit cooler, particularly if its running at 2ohm.

Edited April 5, 2018 by COOP

[lonestar]

Screenshot_2 by Lone Star, on Flickr

Screenshot_1 by Lone Star, on Flickr

@MLA If I wire my 1 pr of REV 10 like this, how many watts are they getting out of my SYN-DX4? 400W each? How do you suggest wiring them?

Edited April 5, 2018 by lonestar

[MLA]

@lonestar

Bridged into 2 chnl mode, the Syn-DX4 has a potential of 400W rms x 2, as in each chnl. 

[COOP]

The SYN-DX 4 is 400x2 bridged. So 400watts per speaker.

 

Also, this is from Roger Russells website. Roger was the Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the originator of McIntosh Loudspeakers

 

A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"

[MLA]

I take a little issue with that paragraph. Larger gauge cable does not mean exotic bu any means. Now, maybe to him, OFC might be exotic compared to CCA. 

The other thing not talked about, is the difference in wattage between the current amp and the new amp(s) scenario. The factory amp has a potential of 375W rms x 2. The Syn-DX2.3HP can deliver 600W rms x 2. If the OP goes with dual Syn-DX4, that 400W rms per speaker, so more then double the current setup. IMO, this is the biggest reason to upgrade the cabling. 

[CJAY]

So after talking to both wetsounds and exile I think I’m going to go with a pair of exile xm30.2s.  It will keep me from having to rewire the tower and I’ll get 420 watts per rev 10.  Plus I’ll get an adapter for the dsp head unit.

[MLA]

35 minutes ago, CJAY said:

So after talking to both wetsounds and exile I think I’m going to go with a pair of exile xm30.2s.  It will keep me from having to rewire the tower and I’ll get 420 watts per rev 10.  Plus I’ll get an adapter for the dsp head unit.

Um, nope! Not anywhere close. I sure hope you were not told that by the manufacture rep. You will get only 300W to each speaker, will require some rewiring and cost $350 more in amps alone plus cabling, etc and take up twice the space. 

As indicated earlier, going with the Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3HP will not require any rewiring, although its suggested due to the wattage increase. Will net you 300W rms to each speaker. Dual 2 chnls and the configuration above, will require some rewiring. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by MLA

[CJAY]

2 hours ago, MLA said:

Um, nope! Not anywhere close. I sure hope you were not told that by the manufacture rep. You will get only 300W to each speaker, will require some rewiring and cost $350 more in amps alone plus cabling, etc and take up twice the space. 

As indicated earlier, going with the Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3HP will not require any rewiring, although its suggested due to the wattage increase. Will net you 300W rms to each speaker. Dual 2 chnls and the configuration above, will require some rewiring. 

The exile xm30.2 runs 820 watts bridged at 4ohms, if run in parallel it should keep impedance at 4ohms with 2 speakers per amp.  Why would I only get 300 watts each?

trust me I don’t want to unessecarrilly add anymore money and devices than I need

Edited April 7, 2018 by CJAY

[MLA]

1 hour ago, CJAY said:

The exile xm30.2 runs 820 watts bridged at 4ohms, if run in parallel it should keep impedance at 4ohms with 2 speakers per amp.  Why would I only get 300 watts each?

Two 4 ohm speakers in parallel will never be 4 ohm at the amp. Two 4 ohm speakers wired in series will still never be 4 ohm at the amp. The best you are going to get is the amp's 4 ohm x 2 output of 300W rms. If you do a series/bridge like pictured above, thats an 8 ohm load at the amp and will net the same 300W rms to each speaker. 

Your best solution for proper wattage and NOT have to gut and rewire the tower, is the Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3HP. 

[CJAY]

On 4/7/2018 at 1:01 PM, MLA said:

Two 4 ohm speakers in parallel will never be 4 ohm at the amp. Two 4 ohm speakers wired in series will still never be 4 ohm at the amp. The best you are going to get is the amp's 4 ohm x 2 output of 300W rms. If you do a series/bridge like pictured above, thats an 8 ohm load at the amp and will net the same 300W rms to each speaker. 

Your best solution for proper wattage and NOT have to gut and rewire the tower, is the Wet Sounds Syn-DX2.3HP. 

I'm ordering an hp2.3 next week so I can start the install and get it ready for the water

[ahopkins22LSV]

So do we get to see the new boat?!

[CJAY]

5 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

So do we get to see the new boat?!

I haven't even picked it up yet, they were moving my speakers over yesterday, and I hope detailing it today, so I can pick it up.  I've got the advertisement pic from onlyinboards