Gph Comparison

[nohlan4]

15 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Thanks. Love the look of the Malibu but for the price of a new lsv or even VLX it really didn’t seem worth it. 

Uship sounds like it’s definitely the way to go. Just getting across mountains in the middle of winter....

Just go get it in the spring? That's what I did when I bought my boat middle of winter from Minnesota.

[Fman]

4 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

I can't speak first hand to a surfgate Malibu. One of our friends has a 15LSV, and if we load up with 6-8 people and surf all afternoon on a Saturday, we will run it close to empty..... maybe 5ish hours, and running everyone through 2-3 sets each. I'm not sure how much fuel it holds.... 60 gal? I'm sure it still has 10-15 gallons when the gauge is down low. So, maybe burning 8-9gph?

Nonetheless, I found almost the exact same with my 2016 G23, on the stock 17x17 prop. After 5ish hours, she was low, on a 65 gallon tank. On my 17, I swapped to the 17x19.5, and could ride that same 5 hours, and have the tank only half empty. I still can't believe how much difference it made to be surfing at 2900rpm instead of 3400.

Either way, the dicom readings in the vid are only while the boat is going......... GPH is going to go to less than 1gph any time you are idling, and returning for a rider, etc. I don't know about your crew, but mine is pretty colorful with doing tricks, being silly out there, or really trying to learn something new. On the average day, I can guarantee that we spend at least 30% of the running time, idling back to pick up the rider, and 10% of the time with the engine off while swapping riders and socializing.

Pull rider up, they surf 2-4 minutes, they fall, and we spend 1-2 minutes turning around and idling back to them. Same thing, over and over again.

If you really consider how much idling time you have, while towing the average surfer, it is no surprise to me that you could average 8-9gph, but still be burning 14+ while you are actually towing. 

So the Diacom reading on the Centurion being 8-9gph under load is really 3-4 gph (half of load reading) real world use?  That seems incredibly low for such a large heavy boat.

[Monkeybutt]

I'm not really surprised by this.  Last year when we were loading up (usually 3 - 4 peeps plus 4 dogs) - the fuel consumption was easily around 10+ GPH when surfing on the 23LSV (stock ballast plus 750 lbs in rear locker and 550 in the front).  Having the wedge at 2 clicks down would result in 3700 to 3800 RPM - 3 clicks meant 4000 RPM - and the engine was struggling.

Now I'm not saying that this was the perfect setup but the fuel consumption when surfing (average 3700) vs. wakeboarding 3000 - 3200 made a world of a difference.  Even in my previous boat - anything around 3000 RPM meant easy on the fuel (5+GPH).  As soon as the engine went above 3500 things got worse and I'm not talking progressively - it pretty much doubled.

So if the RPM stays around 3000 - you're in a different league.  Now to be fair - I'm no engineer and I haven't had too many boats in my life but even in a car you know that there's a point where the fuel consumption just goes thru the roof.  I remember back in the days on the German Autobahn ... you drove around 180km/h with a car which has a top speed of around 230km/h.  If you stayed around 180 which meant engine was going at less than 5000 rpm - somewhat okay mileage - go above 200 or near top speed and you double your consumption pretty much ... so there's an RPM where boat engines will perform most efficiently (which is a compromise - not the fastest, heaviest etc.)

[Cole2001]

11 minutes ago, nohlan4 said:

Just go get it in the spring? That's what I did when I bought my boat middle of winter from Minnesota.

Our season starts April. Have you seen Alberta in the April? It’s not pretty.. 

[Cole2001]

20 minutes ago, Fman said:

So the Diacom reading on the Centurion being 8-9gph under load is really 3-4 gph (half of load reading) real world use?  That seems incredibly low for such a large heavy boat.

If that’s true that’s very very impressive. 

Part of me thinks whatever senser is reading the gas consumption could be different, resulting in higher or lower consumptions.

[DarkSide]

There are SO many variables in this.   Similar to wedge, both RI and G have plates that can push transom up and bow down, EXACT opposite effect, making wake/wave more mellow, where wedge makes more aggressive. So more plate, better fuel economy.  Then there is propping, this can have a huge effect.   

This is a single data point,  take it at that.  I do use 30-40% less now than in my MXZ, but I am still in the 7GPH range. 

@Fman sub 5 GPH is not uncommon for 257.

Edited January 8, 2018 by DarkSide

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, Fman said:

So the Diacom reading on the Centurion being 8-9gph under load is really 3-4 gph (half of load reading) real world use?  That seems incredibly low for such a large heavy boat.

I wasn't assuming half compared to your use. I'm guessing you run a bow bag, like most others with a 23LSV, and that you are not running 4200rpms while you are surfing. I would be under the assumption that you were running more like 13-14gph under load, and that you'd be under load roughly 70% of the time. (Just a guess, but would make sense to me, based on my friends average. He does run a bow bag to keep the nose down, and that makes a huge difference on how hard the engine has to work....... unlike in the video)

So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ri averaged 70% of what was measured. (IIRC, it was reading about 9gph) That would be about 6gph average.

Heck, I went from 8-9gph, down to about 6gph average, with just a prop change.

 

@Cole2001 - Those dicom readings are going to be dead on, no matter the boat. There isn't a sensor that measures the consumption. The fuel consumption calculation is based on the ECMs calculations for actual fuel delivery. The ECM knows exactly how much fuel the calibrated injectors flow, and it also knows how long it opens them for. The whole system, and calculations are extremely accurate. If they were off by even a few percent, you could have a some huge problems with your engine, in a very short period of time.

[MadMan]

I am truly going to show my ignorance here, but is there no way to show GPH on a modern (not mine) Malibu display?  Sure seems like it would be useful information.

[hunter77ah]

18 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

I wasn't assuming half compared to your use. I'm guessing you run a bow bag, like most others with a 23LSV, and that you are not running 4200rpms while you are surfing. I would be under the assumption that you were running more like 13-14gph under load, and that you'd be under load roughly 70% of the time. (Just a guess, but would make sense to me, based on my friends average. He does run a bow bag to keep the nose down, and that makes a huge difference on how hard the engine has to work....... unlike in the video)

This was basically my question.  How many extra gph are burned when not using a bow bag in a Malibu? I know the nautiques don’t need the bow weight but was unsure of the RI series. 

[wheelman]

9 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

This was basically my question.  How many extra gph are burned when not using a bow bag in a Malibu? I know the nautiques don’t need the bow weight but was unsure of the RI series. 

The ri does not need any bow weight and most including myself do not use any weight in the bow. On my 17 ri237 I am right in the neighbourhood of 5gph in my overall usage when I do the math when I fill up. I had a 15lsv with the 409 and I was running a bow bag and I was in the 8 to 9 gph when I would do the math on full up. My 17 does not have the new Opti v Hull which the 257 has for 17 and now the 18 237. 

[hunter77ah]

27 minutes ago, wheelman said:

The ri does not need any bow weight and most including myself do not use any weight in the bow. On my 17 ri237 I am right in the neighbourhood of 5gph in my overall usage when I do the math when I fill up. I had a 15lsv with the 409 and I was running a bow bag and I was in the 8 to 9 gph when I would do the math on full up. My 17 does not have the new Opti v Hull which the 257 has for 17 and now the 18 237. 

What prop on the Lsv?

[nohlan4]

3 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Our season starts April. Have you seen Alberta in the April? It’s not pretty.. 

I brought my boat back April 17th in 2016 so yes I have. Get some rock tamers and your good to go if that's what your worried about. I have a feeling we will have a mild spring again here this year as far as snow goes. Not like its going to stay clean, either way you'll need a detail after that long of a journey.

[wheelman]

28 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

What prop on the Lsv?

2419 15x12, running 750 bags plus 100lbs lead in rear lockers and 650 sumo sac up front usual crew of four at 970ft elevation. I have always said the wedge is like dragging a huge anchor behind you, can’t be good for gph and I hate the way it changes how it drives but it sure makes a difference in the wake/wave. However gph was irrelevant in any boat buying decision I have or will ever make. 

[wheelman]

1 minute ago, nohlan4 said:

I brought my boat back April 17th in 2016 so yes I have. Get some rock tamers and your good to go if that's what your worried about. I have a feeling we will have a mild spring again here this year as far as snow goes. Not like its going to stay clean, either way you'll need a detail after that long of a journey.

Have the dealership ship wrap it for you. When I brought mine back last year from Kelowna in the winter they kept the shipping cover for me, wrapped the boat in that and wrapped the entire trailer. I was super impressed with the quality of service to protect it. Rock tammers are great also I don’t tow without them. 

[Cole2001]

1 minute ago, wheelman said:

Have the dealership ship wrap it for you. When I brought mine back last year from Kelowna in the winter they kept the shipping cover for me, wrapped the boat in that and wrapped the entire trailer. I was super impressed with the quality of service to protect it. Rock tammers are great also I don’t tow without them. 

Yes I’m hoping the shipping cover will still be intact as it’s coming from the factory. 

[DarkSide]

 

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

 

So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ri averaged 70% of what was measured. (IIRC, it was reading about 9gph) That would be about 6gph average.

I average 7GPH, but I use 1000 pounds of lead and, use very little center tab,  and a lot of CATS, this makes the wave VERY steep.

It's not uncommon for people to get sub 5 GPH, in the 257.  One of my friends averaged 4.5 over 250 hours on his this summer.  He runs a longer flatter wave,  so full center tab,  no lead,  etc.   

Prop options were fairly limited as they run 16" prop, so 16x15 or 16x13 was the options.   The 16x13 pulls like a train,  but you lose cruise speed,  and run higher RPM.  With 16x13 I was running just under 4000 RPM, with 16x15 I run closer to 3300 - 3600 based on tab settings.  I suspect people will start playing with 17" props at some point.   However right now there is little incentive.   RPM are reasonable, fuel consumption is great,  cruise speed is acceptable.  So dropping $$$ on 17" props is not really of interest to most. 

 

[wheelman]

24 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Yes I’m hoping the shipping cover will still be intact as it’s coming from the factory. 

You may want to contact the dealer and ask them to keep it for you. I know my dealer usually just cuts them off and throws them right away, there too big and bulky for them to keep around. I told them I wanted to keep mine. Shipping covers are super nice on centurions with ratchet straps and felt lined inside. I use it a lot still. 

[Cole2001]

2 hours ago, wheelman said:

You may want to contact the dealer and ask them to keep it for you. I know my dealer usually just cuts them off and throws them right away, there too big and bulky for them to keep around. I told them I wanted to keep mine. Shipping covers are super nice on centurions with ratchet straps and felt lined inside. I use it a lot still. 

Already planning on it. 

Where do you do your boating? 

[DarkSide]

Same type video but wakeboarding this time.   

http://www.mmwatersports.com/boat-performance/centurion-vs-malibu-vs-nautique-power-and-performance/

[Cole2001]

Another thing that’s probably worth taking consideration is the elevation these boats are running at. Being at sea level things will most likely perform a lot better with lower fuel consumptions.

[wheelman]

2 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Already planning on it. 

Where do you do your boating? 

For the most part Osoyoos lake as my boat stays at my place up there. I ride in the lower mainland in friends boats in the deas slough. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by wheelman

[wheelman]

1 hour ago, DarkSide said:

Same type video but wakeboarding this time.   

http://www.mmwatersports.com/boat-performance/centurion-vs-malibu-vs-nautique-power-and-performance/

That mkz was at 4700 rpm at 23.5 mph? 

[TenTwentyOne]

2 hours ago, DarkSide said:

Same type video but wakeboarding this time.   

http://www.mmwatersports.com/boat-performance/centurion-vs-malibu-vs-nautique-power-and-performance/

Ya...... now I'm gonna probably start to call things into question a little bit. My G was 7 seconds 0-23 with stock ballast.....

and I didn't just write that after seeing this vid. I have all that info from my prop thread on PN from over 6 months ago. 7.6 seconds to be exact. I had absolutely nothing to prove when I posted those numbers either. I was only comparing my props, on my own boat.....

and for what it's worth, I was still under 13 seconds with my 0-23mph test with stock ballast full, plus 2 1100s full on the floor, plus 600lbs of lead. 

Over 5500lbs of ballast in the G, and was still under the time he showed in that vid. 

 

One thing I can say, is that I'm not as confident that these guys aren't playing games a little bit now. Which is sad, because I thought they were being fairly legit about their findings....... before now

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by TenTwentyOne

[wheelman]

16 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Ya...... now I'm gonna probably start to call things into question a little bit. My G was 7 seconds 0-23 with stock ballast.....

and I didn't just write that after seeing this vid. I have all that info from my prop thread on PN from over 6 months ago. 7.6 seconds to be exact. I had absolutely nothing to prove when I posted those numbers either. I was only comparing my props, on my own boat.....

and for what it's worth, I was still under 13 seconds with my 0-23mph test with stock ballast full, plus 2 1100s full on the floor, plus 600lbs of lead. 

Over 5500lbs of ballast in the G, and was still under the time he showed in that vid. 

 

One thing I can say, is that I'm not as confident that these guys aren't playing games a little bit now. Which is sad, because I thought they were being fairly legit about their findings....... before now

 

What year is your g? What gear ratio? Could it be possible they are running an older g with the 1.50 or whatever it was ratio?

something doesn’t make sense for sure. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by wheelman

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, wheelman said:

What year is your g? What gear ratio? Could it be possible they are running an older g with the 1.50 or whatever it was ratio?

something doesn’t make sense for sure. 

Mine was a 17 with 2:1, and I think they were using a 15 with a 550, which would have been a 1.5:1....... but that doesn’t really matter to me, when I know that my neighbors 2013 g23 with a 409 and 1.5:1 will hit 23 in just a touch over 11 seconds on stock ballast.

We were testing props on his the same week that I was doing mine in the spring. 

The 0-23 is going to be very close between Gs with 550s and the two different transmissions on stock props. Where you will see the big difference is the amount of prop slip and rpms while surfing. That is where the 2:1 and big prop shine.