250/2500 level tow rig for +/- 30k (now increased budget)

[Cole2001]

Unless you start hauling trailers for a living or towing your 15000 pound rv around the country. You have no need for a diesel, yes I say need. Having one would be awesome, no denying that, but for what it’s worth in your situation it’s not needed.

[carguy79ta]

I agree the gasser will "set on the shelf" better than the Diesel.  fortunately for me, I drive 20 miles each way to work on the hghway so the motor gets warmed up everyday.

[sunvalleylaw]

@RyanB , fair enough.  The one I killed a cylinder in was a 1997 or 98.  The "newer" one is a 2001 that we got a few years ago with only 64k miles on it.  A Sun Valley, "North Valley Creampuff" that was kept at a second home.  It has done fine over Galena back and forth, but certainly does not feel overpowered.  I wouldn't want to stack a camper on it also, not that you could put on on a 'Burb.    This 2010 Ram 2500 Diesel is also a SV Cream Puff with only 61k miles.  But fair points.  Also, the current 'Burb an older vehicle. It has reached the age and mileage now that I don't want to have to trust it for longer cross country trips.  For example, when I picked up this boat around the bridge over the Columbia into Oregon, I blew the radiator, and had to nurse it into Pendleton for repair.  But that was just an older plastic radiator letting go.  Another reason I don't want to go older than 2010 this time on a diesel, and would want newer and fewer miles on a gasser.   Again, fair thoughts.  Thanks for the considerations.  

Edited February 21, 2018 by sunvalleylaw

[shawndoggy]

that's why the new 6.4 is compelling imho -- basically comparatively priced against the 8 year old trucks you are looking at, but brand new, with 3/36k bumper to bumper and 5/100k powertrain warranties (yes, the used diesels are "cheaper," but not by much if you also factored in buying a 100K powertrain warranty).  You know which shocks and suspension bushings are gonna wear out first?  The 8 year old ones.  Which interior is going to wear out first?  the 8 year old one.  Which is going to need an alignment, new ball joints, new wheel bearings, new brakes, new [insert wear item here]?  Yep, the 8 year old one.  

All vehicles are basically on a journey to the junkyard from the day they roll off the showroom floor.  An 8 year old truck is farther along that journey than a brand new one.  Gas or diesel doesn't matter... the rest of the truck is wearing out at the same rate around the drivetrain.

If you tow uncovered, I also would not understate the annoyance of sooty boat upholstery e.v.e.r.y. time you do that hard mountain pull (i.e. dirty when you get to the lake and dirty again when you get home).

-shawndoggy

(proud **former** owner of a 2001 7.3 excursion that fell apart monthly around an amazing-for-its-day-but-very-loud-and-not-very-impressive-compared-to-today's-gas-alternatives drivetrain)

[RyanB]

@sunvalleylaw, your current 5.3 doesn’t have much if any more power than your original. Again, even the 5.7 would be a significant improvement for you. And I agree with you 100% about the reliability concerns about everything on an older truck.  That is one reason I went away from my 03 Burb with the 8.1.

@shawndoggy I agree with most of your above post. With the exception of the sooty remarks. That hasn’t been an issue for stock trucks for years. Deleted/modified trucks are a different story. The tailpipe of my 2012 CTD is cleaner than that of my Yukon. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by RyanB

[shawndoggy]

Just now, RyanB said:

 

@shawndoggy I agree with most of your above post. With the exception of the sooty remarks. That hasn’t been an issue for stock trucks for years. Deleted/modified trucks are a different story. The tailpipe of my 2012 CTD is cleaner than that of my Yukon. 

Good data.  I assumed that because @sunvalleylaw was looking at pre-def ctds that they would/could be sooty.  My experience is a sample size of one 7.3 ford, not a more modern but still pre-def cummins.  So I definitely reserve the right to be wrong!

[RyanB]

@shawndoggy even my 03 Cummins ran clean. At least until I put a tuner on it. And even then I never got to the lake or the campground and had to clean off exhaust. 

[oldjeep]

16 hours ago, sunvalleylaw said:

Just to confuse matters, if I got a Ram Eco-Diesel and beefed up the suspension, think that would work to tow a 1998 Response LX ski boat on a single axle trailer, and at the same time haul a 1600 lb camper (as loaded weight) over Galena Summit (8,700 ft.)?  @carguy79ta  

Basically, I would like to get as good a mileage as I can, for the environment and cost (diesel is not cheaper where I live), for use when not towing, and good, safe performance when towing/hauling/carrying.  

1600lb camper in the bed of a Ram 1500 would be too much.  Mine is happy with about 1000 lbs in the bed, 1600 I think would put you on the bump stops.

[shawndoggy]

That's amazing.  My 7.3 never looked sooty while driving (I've seen many many many cummins/powerstrokes/duramaxes with the telltale puff of black smoke towing over the passes, and mine never looked obviously sooty).  But good grief did the grimy bow cushions get old!

[Joeprunc]

21 hours ago, mackie12 said:

look for an 06/07 duramax with the LBZ motor, something under the 250K. this particular truck has none of the emission stuff on it and will last you a long time.

Yes, I looked long and hard for one of these....I have one...150k miles .  Plan on keeping it a LONG TIME.  Yes the interior isn't quite as nice, but i'm 100% ok with that.

 

With a camper thats 1600# dry, add gear water, etc, you will be easily at 2000#-2500#.  Haven't towed boat with camper, but have had a Dirt bike on the hitch, you can tell even a 3/4 tons suspension getting worked....but power going over the pass isn't an issue.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Joeprunc

[sunvalleylaw]

15 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

1600lb camper in the bed of a Ram 1500 would be too much.  Mine is happy with about 1000 lbs in the bed, 1600 I think would put you on the bump stops.

This is where I would wonder how much it would take to beef up the suspension sufficiently. And whether to eco-diesel motor with Paul sufficiently, as it seems it would based on what people are saying about the 5.7.This is where I would wonder how much it would take to beef up the suspension sufficiently. And whether to eco-diesel motor would pulll sufficiently, as it seems it would based on what people are saying about the 5.7.  I still desire good mileage. Especially for those family road trip’s.

[sunvalleylaw]

1 minute ago, Joeprunc said:

Yes, I looked long and hard for one of these....I have one...150k miles .  Plan on keeping it a LONG TIME.  Yes the interior isn't quite as nice, but i'm 100% ok with that.

I am just passed that point if I can help it. I have done the fix up and maintain the old vehicle thing for a long time.I am just passed that point if I can help it. I have done the fix up and maintain the old vehicle thing for a long time.

 

Very good condition vehicle under 10 years old, such as this one I am looking at, merits consideration. But I do not want to go older than that even if it makes the motors more simple.

Edited February 21, 2018 by sunvalleylaw

[carguy79ta]

also to point out I have pulled my 257 for a 500m trip and did not get any soot on the boat.  with my tune, it only blows black smoke if you really get on it.  normal towing doesn't produce black smoke.

[oldjeep]

1 hour ago, sunvalleylaw said:

This is where I would wonder how much it would take to beef up the suspension sufficiently. And whether to eco-diesel motor with Paul sufficiently, as it seems it would based on what people are saying about the 5.7.This is where I would wonder how much it would take to beef up the suspension sufficiently. And whether to eco-diesel motor would pulll sufficiently, as it seems it would based on what people are saying about the 5.7.  I still desire good mileage. Especially for those family road trip’s.

I don't think you could - safely.  That would be putting a whole lot of additional strain on the frame and axle that the truck wasn't designed for.

[RyanB]

47 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

I don't think you could - safely.  That would be putting a whole lot of additional strain on the frame and axle that the truck wasn't designed for.

It’s a lot more than just beefing up the suspension to handle the weight. RAM has been very transparent in their positioning of their trucks. 

This is over simplification, but their stance is if you want to tow/haul a lot of weight they want you in a 2500 or 3500. They don’t muddy the water with a HD 1500. 

[oldjeep]

Just now, RyanB said:

It’s a lot more than just beefing up the suspension to handle the weight. RAM has been very transparent in their positioning of their trucks. 

This is over simplification, but their stance is if you want to tow/haul a lot of weight they want you in a 2500 or 3500. They don’t muddy the water with a HD 1500. 

Yeah, the HD 1500's are a joke anyways.  Take the same axle and add 2 lugs (Ford) or do next to nothing and call it a 1500HD - Chev

[Falko]

Hauling a camper and a boat would definitely be in the 2500, minimum. I wouldn't walk past a 3500 with those considerations either.  There was a towing test with the CTD vs the 6.4 counterpart and towing power, there wasn't much difference at all. Obviously the gasser will rev to make power, and the diesel is a bit more efficient, but that's a lot of fuel to make up the difference in cost.

[carguy79ta]

I understand hp is hp. however, a Mack truck with the same 400 hp, the motor puts out about 1400 ft lbs. jussayin. 

[mackie12]

6 hours ago, Joeprunc said:

Yes, I looked long and hard for one of these....I have one...150k miles .  Plan on keeping it a LONG TIME.  Yes the interior isn't quite as nice, but i'm 100% ok with that.

 

With a camper thats 1600# dry, add gear water, etc, you will be easily at 2000#-2500#.  Haven't towed boat with camper, but have had a Dirt bike on the hitch, you can tell even a 3/4 tons suspension getting worked....but power going over the pass isn't an issue.

I have the twin to that rig, pulls our moto trailer and our boat. Bambi is her name and she pulls like a champ! (Kids named her because we smacked a few deer over the years......)

by the way, that's an awesome pic, where is that?

[Falko]

1 hour ago, carguy79ta said:

I understand hp is hp. however, a Mack truck with the same 400 hp, the motor puts out about 1400 ft lbs. jussayin. 

yes, the low end torque is nice. A 16spd transmission doesn't hurt the equation either.

[carguy79ta]

30 minutes ago, Falko said:

yes, the low end torque is nice. A 16spd transmission doesn't hurt the equation either.

yeah they don't have a wide powerband to work with.

[sunvalleylaw]

So, I think for me, it comes down to a 2500 HD, either with the diesel, or the 6.4.  I would not pass up the right 3500 either, but I think 2500 will do.  @Joeprunc, that 1,600 lb. weight is from the manufacturer, with a load of "standard equipment", 30 gal of water, 20 lbs of propane, and the small "dorm" fridge. See the pic below of the page from the original manual.   I could think of maybe 100-200 more pounds including bikes and rack, though if I am towing, a bike rack will have to be from the front.  Or I suppose the top but I hate hanging bikes that high.  Or just put them in the camper with some blankets.  Each bike is about 30 lbs lets say.  

As to gas or diesel, I still think I would prefer diesel.  I have come to love the on demand torque that my 2005 Passat TDI has, and how strong it pulls hills.  I drove an old Alfa for a long time, and I know how to work a power band higher in the rpm's.  But I don't really want to have to do that while towing.  I suppose I should crunch some numbers too.  But if I can pull it off, I still think I might like the diesel more, even if I don't have to have it.  The new with warranty thing is tempting though.  

I may take a little more time to decide and not feel pushed to hop on this local "cream puff".  For not that much more, it seems like I can find newer diesels.  @carguy79ta likes his 2013 for example.  I could spend a little more time arranging finances to better handle the purchase also.  Though I would like to act before interest rates go up too much.  

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by sunvalleylaw

[sunvalleylaw]

PS, here is the boat on the single axle trailer, behind the old 'Burb.  Those trailer tires have since been replaced.  Still have to replace the wood on the trailer steps.    

And here is a link to more pics of the Northstar, by Texson, if anyone is interested:  Northstar Camper

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by sunvalleylaw

[alpensurf23]

@sunvalleylawDiesel is a great call, not sure what year they began putting the exhaust brake option but that is a priceless part of my 3500hd Dirtymax. Power, MPG, and Braking/Trailer control why I went Diesel. Beware of tuner diesels/ chipped, very commonly done and not right. Might find a deal on a government issue/ maintained vehicle. You'd be surprised how many in great condition and will have maintenance well documented. p.s. sweet bu!!!

Edited February 21, 2018 by alpensurf23

[sunvalleylaw]

Yeah, I keep forgetting about the exhaust brakes.  I think the 2010 I was looking at had them.  And I am sure the newer ones do.  Those should come in handy on the long descents from the pass(es).  Galena pass leads to places like this.  This was some very early season skiing last year.  Testing out the new wetsuits. 

 

 

 

There is good camping back in there behind the beach at that bay.  Some less buggy camping down mid-lake though, not by the wetland and inlet.  

Edited February 21, 2018 by sunvalleylaw