Poor Wake on 2016 Malibu 25LSV

[ahopkins22LSV]

49 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I never suggested that depth does not affect the wave.  Sure it does.  The point is, why is there is an excuse for everything?  So someone loses the wave, who cares.  Who needs to ride 30 feet back?  Is there some talent-inducing magic that only inures that far back?  Whats the point?  Why is surfing now requiring of a PHd in hydrodynamics?  It's the easiest most mundane activity there is that can be done in 4 foot swells and its being analyzed and fine tuned like Tiger Woods' golf swing.  Hit surf left and freekin drop the rope and surf.  

Like I said they are turning into slalom skiers. Soon we will see them with calipers and micrometers making fin adjustments  

Edited October 4, 2017 by ahopkinsTXi

[Justinww11]

10 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Full tank of gas is important in the 25 lsv especially with light Crew. No way around this.. full 750 PNP and wedge 3rd position from stow.. 

11.2mph is the ticket for us.. newbies 10.8-11.0.. but that gets mushy for us big guys.. if I've got huge crew 10ppl or more then 11.4 is legit.. rare though.. after all that's too much beer and gas to supply.. 

If u have any less than 4-5 ppl or 700-1000lbs in boat throw a 1000lb sac in center floor... Then it's killer wave.. no bow weight needed only belly weight in this thing when u have a light Crew.. bow weight kills wave period.. only if u have bigger than 750 rear PNP would bow weight help.. 

I've tried about everything this formula is solid Everytime.. 

I think I know what u mean on lip pop.. ie the lip slightly washed out  closer to boat where the wave is firmer... the tabs need to be extended slightly less IMO to achieve this.. the convergence is a little long.. only way to fix that is with more weight and speed..  this winter I plan to play with lenco switch to see if it can be added after maliview to adjust deflection of SG less than the factory full.. I'm convinced it will allow needed adjustment.. less deflection will also mean shorter wave.. 

If u want u cloud add a bit of bow weight which seems to hurt wave height but does dramatically shorten the wave height  and make it more lippy closer to boat.. play with wedge a bit. But IMO it isn't as good of wave with bow weight.. it will help with some pop off wave closer to boat  but then I feel it's easy to fall back and loose the wave much quicker.. 

Only once with 17-18ppl in boat was bow weight critical.. two ppl needed to be up there.. 

Other easy fix is a hyperlite shim board.. very light and Poppy on the 25lsv wave.. u need something light with a sharper or sharp bottom edge on the board for this wave.. 

On a side note everyone that surfs this always is riding up in the boat like the to normally do and I'm like hey this is a beast wave... Go back..go back.. and each time they drop back they have a blank look on their face like wow I'm still in the wave.. further and further and still.. further back with a fast light sharp board makes ALL the difference.. most people just don't surf far enough back on this wave to enjoy it.. but u do need the right fast board. 

If u ride center fin only u need to take other two fin and cut them off and fill gaps on board/unused fin slots.. what a difference!!! 

I'm not a huge jumper because I'm 225lbs but I can get a little air.. I can 360 all day long and am able to hit. Few 720s here and there.. transfers are a blast but I'm like a baby deer backside.. last night was the last season run and I'm very close to getting a 360 cross the wake transfer.. this will be the ultimate for me ha.. everyone that has ever wanted to do a 360 has either got it or came so close on this wave they can't get enough (due to length) it keeps ya in the wave.. 

 

Thanks! I'll mess around with the settings to see what i can do. If i cant get it the way i want ill probably throw a bigger bag in the center. I'm 205 and ride a 54" Hyperlight HI-FI with one fin. I love how fast and responsive the board is. I've been learning to ride normally on the right side and it's going pretty well. Haven't really messed around with transfers yet! Also does filling the holes in the board make a difference? i just left them empty when i took the fins off

[Justinww11]

8 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

The setups posted above will give you a great wake. I feel that running the wedge in the middle is too much. Also, what is your water depth? Anything under 15' the wave will suffer. 

Depth isn't a problem at ~ 150 ft. 

[Justinww11]

Here are a couple videos of the wake. Ignore the 360 fails lol. Speed was 11, wedge was in the center and all tanks were full. You can see how short the wave was. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4eyA6Ewa4E3Q3hBS1ZBaUFtdzg?usp=sharing

[ahopkins22LSV]

22 minutes ago, Justinww11 said:

Depth isn't a problem at ~ 150 ft. 

 yeah you are good by a few feet!

[Justinww11]

4 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

 yeah you are good by a few feet!

I sure would hope so

[boardjnky4]

You need more ballast. Doesn't matter if the surfgate sits further in the water.

I would put sumo 800s back there, and fill them slam full.

[Justinww11]

2 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

You need more ballast. Doesn't matter if the surfgate sits further in the water.

I would put sumo 800s back there, and fill them slam full.

In addition to the 600lb fatsacs we already have back there?

[dboyle]

6 hours ago, The Hulk said:

I have to disagree.. 15ft becomes unsurfable .. 20ft and wave sucks.. 25ft is absolute enjoyable minimum from my experience.. 30ft and wave seems to not be affected

If we go through a spot that's 20ft we inform rider today get close to boat not to loose wave.. most probably can't tell difference of 25-30 but I can.. 

 

Not sure I agree with any of your statements 

our lake is 15 ft at its deepest. We get waist high and 25’ long surf all day  

 

 

[NAW]

2 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I never suggested that depth does not affect the wave.  Sure it does.  The point is, why is there is an excuse for everything?  So someone loses the wave, who cares.  Who needs to ride 30 feet back?  Is there some talent-inducing magic that only inures that far back?  Whats the point?  Why is surfing now requiring of a PHd in hydrodynamics?  It's the easiest most mundane activity there is that can be done in 4 foot swells and its being analyzed and fine tuned like Tiger Woods' golf swing.  Hit surf left and freekin drop the rope and surf.  

Just awesome. 

[wilster]

21 minutes ago, dboyle said:

Not sure I agree with any of your statements 

our lake is 15 ft at its deepest. We get waist high and 25’ long surf all day  

 

 

the wave definitely degrades starting at 15ft and lower, but i wouldn't say it is un-surfable, it's just not as good.  the prevalence of muck and plants, like we get on the delta in CA, also degrades the wave at the lower depths.  

[Malibuzer]

3 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Take a 23 or 25 LSV through 10 feet of water then 25+ and let us know how it goes. As Hulk said, boat size directly relates to how much water needed.

Hey, no question that the deeper water helps.  We are always blown away at the wake in deep water.  We spend a lot of time behind a 23 LSV and a 247.  All surfing in the same water as me.  Their wakes are considerably better.  You do the best that you can where you live.  My only choices are both shallow.

[boardjnky4]

1 hour ago, Justinww11 said:

In addition to the 600lb fatsacs we already have back there?

No, ideally replace the 600s. But at the very least fill what you have all the way up.

swim platform should be ankle deep with the boat at rest.

[kerpluxal]

9 hours ago, The Hulk said:

I have to disagree.. 15ft becomes unsurfable .. 20ft and wave sucks.. 25ft is absolute enjoyable minimum from my experience.. 30ft and wave seems to not be affected

If we go through a spot that's 20ft we inform rider today get close to boat not to loose wave.. most probably can't tell difference of 25-30 but I can.. 

 

LOL... eww.. don't come here  .... So... yes mine is 23 lsv... and all the pics that I have shared in the past (waist high) are in 10 - 15 ft of water and I am back there (way back there) past the tow rope length and not riding the platform with plenty of push (back leg can get sore from keeping the brakes on) for aerials and other tricks ...  ... deepest I can get is 30 ft.. but have to boat .5 hr further away to get there and it is only good for surfing if that on most days.... When I first demoed the 25 it was in the Dealers private lake (used for the Malibu open last year) and it 6 ft to 12 ft deep... I still had push at 6 ft but I had to anticipate it or I would fall out of wave.... Don't get me wrong... Deeper is always better.. but I disagree that you need 25 plus ft for a great wave.. We are making GREAT waves in 10 - 15 ft behind bu's, G's, Supras (only ones I rode on river) and all are 23 - 25 ft boats... Deeper water is better... but not drastic better... Just from my experience... Yes I get to ride in deeper waters at time.. but closest to me is 1.5 hours away while my normal riding spot is .25 miles from house

IMHO the OP is adding way to much wedge and washing his wave out... Rode a 25 LSV last weekend (malibu sponsored rider's boat) and that was his statement as well... people add to much wedge for both surfing and wakeboarding making an inconsistent wave/wake... He is just like you @The Hulk .. less wedge is better 

[The Hulk]

6 hours ago, 05hammerhead said:

Agreed.  Ill also agree that depth plays a part but 25-30"?  If Im forced to have 20+ feet of water to surf with newer "surf" boats forget it, Ill stick with my teenager.  In 8' of water I can surf all day long, do 360s etc.  Im really wondering what everyone needs 30' long waves and 15,000lbs of displacement for. 

I'm very impressed that you can surf in 8 foot of water honestly.. with zero ballast I can tell if I'm less than 15 foot just in the change in Pitch of the boat

[The Hulk]

17 hours ago, Justinww11 said:

Thanks! I'll mess around with the settings to see what i can do. If i cant get it the way i want ill probably throw a bigger bag in the center. I'm 205 and ride a 54" Hyperlight HI-FI with one fin. I love how fast and responsive the board is. I've been learning to ride normally on the right side and it's going pretty well. Haven't really messed around with transfers yet! Also does filling the holes in the board make a difference? i just left them empty when i took the fins off

Yes especially for spins.. I just tried it this past weekend and was amazed.. can't believe it took me this long to try.. they were sitting there so I just measured them up and cut them in a table saw with a guide.. put them n and I tried them... amazing difference

Edited October 5, 2017 by The Hulk

[The Hulk]

5 hours ago, dboyle said:

Not sure I agree with any of your statements 

our lake is 15 ft at its deepest. We get waist high and 25’ long surf all day  

 

 

First of all you're surfing goofy so not fair analysis.. second of all you're surfing still close to the boat.. without ballast you can feel the bow pitch change at 15 ft. Not bashing it's awesome but it can be better

[The Hulk]

15 hours ago, 05hammerhead said:

Agreed.  Ill also agree that depth plays a part but 25-30"?  If Im forced to have 20+ feet of water to surf with newer "surf" boats forget it, Ill stick with my teenager.  In 8' of water I can surf all day long, do 360s etc.  Im really wondering what everyone needs 30' long waves and 15,000lbs of displacement for. 

Don't buy a 25 lsv .. u won't be Happy.. if u have less than 25-30ft.. yea it's a bummer on some Lakes.. but that's reality.. Frankly Speaking if you don't have a long Surf Run of 30 foot plus depth of water dont buy a 25 lsv..  I watch my depth gauge like a hawk.. even at 5 to 7 miles an hour you can tell when your less than 10-15ft foot depth cruising at night.. I would know because I cover my screen with a t-shirt or towel because unfortunately Malibu has not figured out how to make the night setting dimming enough .. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by The Hulk

[The Hulk]

A25 lsv dry and light.. draft is near 3ft +  add ballast and your 4ft+ add angle and throttle I'd guess 5ft+.. yea if your 5ft of water surfing u better be very concerned about slamming the prop on the bottom..  there's no argument that yes you can surf a wave in shallow water is but it has to be close to the boat.. the point being is who the hell wants to do that after experiencing 25-foot plus depth of water at 30ft back..???.. Obviously size of the boat is going to make a big difference on the depth needed and the draft and everything else in the equation.. I'm not trying to argue but frankly I feel sorry for those people that are on lakes that are less than 20 ft.. they don't know what they're missing.. 

Honestly I can understand why people get pissed off you're stuck with a lake you're on.. period... I can go surf all day long on much, calmer water on a leke that's less than 30 foot a few minutes away buy why.. pointless because wave is terrible

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by The Hulk

[nyryan2001]

According to 85, if Jackie Springer wanted you to have a bigger wake... he would have issued you a bigger wake with your 25LSV.  End of story.

[BruCru]

14 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I just have to chuckle at the wave insanity out there.  Seriously, a 25 LSV with a finicky surf wave?  A warning to riders to come closer to the boat in 20 feet of water?  I'm 30#s overweight, have a skim style board that's 7 years old and way too small, live on a lake with a 10 foot average depth, have a 21 VLX w NO plug n play, never have more than a half tank, and have no issues riding back or with a kid on my shoulders on a 44" board.  And I don't consider myself a good surfer at all.  If some of you made yourself ride smaller, less perfect, waves it would help you out a ton IMO.  It's like the people running 4000#s to wakeboard wondering why they can't consistently go wake to wake.  Its because the wake is a crutch.  Learn how to ride, pump, transition correctly and THEN beef it up when you can actually take advantage of it.  Which, I guess means shredding more of the gnar?  Or are waves the new measuring stick, not tricks? 

Whatevs, to each his own, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with trying to dial in what you have, but seriously, we're talking about recommendations of full tanks of gas and 1000# sacs on the floor?  On a 25 LSV?!  That's crazy. 

WE all do the same thing, we take what we have and try to make it better.  The OP just wants a more a symmetric wave side to side.  I agree with 85 in that a 25 LSV can make a giant wave that is way more than one may "need".  In my case, I am married to the Puerto Rican who told me I was buying the biggest Malibu there (at the dealer) or I was getting nothing.  You may ask why... these people are very social, and we have put 18 people on that boat several times (that = 3 families).  No three fams = no boat.  I really wanted the 22 VLX mostly because it was like $35K cheaper.  Can I make a huge wave that is so tall and steep that you fall off the top onto your head yep, definitely have to tame it down at times but at other times it's nice to know that you can clear all the fishing boats out of the channel you are surfing in.  Hopefully none of them capsize but it does happen around here.

At lake shasta water depth is rarely an issue.  It is 175 deep under the slip... don't drop anything.  In southern Oregon, you can get on the Rogue River and ride on a ~40ft jet boat running triple big blocks in the back and they will run them at high speeds in depths as shallow as six inches.  The downforce of the water trapped under the boat as it passes over gravel and rocks is so great that those big Berkley Pumps can't suck anything off bottom of the river.  I found this so amazing as the whole boat would lift up 12 or more inches out of the water when the captain put it in the shallow stuff.  To the OP, also try riding on a Ronix Powertail.  Super pushy board, I can sit so far back that the curl is spilling over on my front foot and come charging forward with ease.  Don't even say anything 85....  Some of us don't know the old stuff

[85 Barefoot]

11 hours ago, The Hulk said:

First of all you're surfing goofy so not fair analysis.. second of all you're surfing still close to the boat.. without ballast you can feel the bow pitch change at 15 ft. Not bashing it's awesome but it can be better

 

11 hours ago, The Hulk said:

Don't buy a 25 lsv .. u won't be Happy.. if u have less than 25-30ft.. yea it's a bummer on some Lakes.. but that's reality.. Frankly Speaking if you don't have a long Surf Run of 30 foot plus depth of water dont buy a 25 lsv..  I watch my depth gauge like a hawk.. even at 5 to 7 miles an hour you can tell when your less than 10-15ft foot depth cruising at night.. I would know because I cover my screen with a t-shirt or towel because unfortunately Malibu has not figured out how to make the night setting dimming enough .. 

 

11 hours ago, The Hulk said:

A25 lsv dry and light.. draft is near 3ft +  add ballast and your 4ft+ add angle and throttle I'd guess 5ft+.. yea if your 5ft of water surfing u better be very concerned about slamming the prop on the bottom..  there's no argument that yes you can surf a wave in shallow water is but it has to be close to the boat.. the point being is who the hell wants to do that after experiencing 25-foot plus depth of water at 30ft back..???.. Obviously size of the boat is going to make a big difference on the depth needed and the draft and everything else in the equation.. I'm not trying to argue but frankly I feel sorry for those people that are on lakes that are less than 20 ft.. they don't know what they're missing.. 

Honestly I can understand why people get pissed off you're stuck with a lake you're on.. period... I can go surf all day long on much, calmer water on a leke that's less than 30 foot a few minutes away buy why.. pointless because wave is terrible

 

Hulk, what is this magic that takes place at 30 feet and/or why do you seek it?  Watch any surf contest or any video of the pros.  Does ANYONE surf 30 feet from the boat?  No.  Why?  Has it occurred to you that your unicorn wave is something that the best in the world don't seek, let alone prefer?  Does that not seem odd to you?  

 

Here's the "video of the year" (title, I'm not saying it is) and Dominic Lagase is no further from the boat than dboyle in his video:

 

Here's Ashley Kidd's championship run two years ago (just happened to be the next video to load).  She routinely runs up to the platform and drops no further back than 8 feet from platform:

 

 

And yet you keep advocating you apparent belief that that is somehow undesired or even inadequate?!  

I was personally at the national championships 2 years ago.  It was on a lake that 12 feet deep.  And yet (the pros)  "... don't know what they're missing?". 

Make sure when you send in your registration for the 2018 national championships that you ensure you're on a deep lake and can drop 30 feet back.  It would be a tragedy to have to compete with the world's best without a custom setup for you so it's not "pointless".

 

[85 Barefoot]

18 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Like I said they are turning into slalom skiers. Soon we will see them with calipers and micrometers making fin adjustments  

No kidding. 

I'm not even touching the "amazing" difference from filling in fin holes.  

That requires "Swerve with Me"  link from Risto.  "Some dude on the internet said he could feel .001" and then Marcus Brown AKA Wildcat skier came in the chat room and just told me to ski west coast style..."  

 

 

[Stevo]

20 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

No kidding. 

I'm not even touching the "amazing" difference from filling in fin holes.  

That requires "Swerve with Me"  link from Risto.  "Some dude on the internet said he could feel .001" and then Marcus Brown AKA Wildcat skier came in the chat room and just told me to ski west coast style..."  

 

 

You owe me 2 minutes of my life back, that video was retarded

[The Hulk]

when we surf over a 20ft spot the bow angle changes and you can feel/hear the difference when going from 80ft to 20ft and the wave washes out, either driving or riding its noticeable. at 25ft its hardly noticeable (now granted) part of this might be the depth gauge not picking up a quick spot that "say" went to 20ft etc while you were reading 25 etc.. as we know these depth gauges are not very fast... this is a BIG thing i would like changed on the boats (much higher sampling rate for depth gauge) as there are a lot of shallow spots in the middle of the lakes around here. on a sunny day they are easy to spot via color change but overcast not so much... many are less than 5ft so they are of concern not to hit bottom. Normally i full throttle over these areas when on cruise to reduce draft... 

I'm just saying 25ft is my "minimum" safe surf wave depth: anything less and wave is def affected. if your riding a 25lsv and your 20ft or less then your wave is just not as good as it could be.. has nothing to do with how good anyone is..just a simple fact i've noticed in my boat with my setup... since surfing is like a drug we are all in search of the next "high". thats why i run a 1k sac in my floor... after surfing with a large crew in my boat i got addicted to the wave with that weight...majority of time i'm small crew of 3-4ppl yes i can surf no problem all day long but after experiencing much better i find it worth the extra few mins to throw the 1k sac on the floor even though i surely do not need to... something i also do is try my harder tricks when we are headed down wind. 

i dont surf comp so why would i sacrifice my wave in shallow waters for fun? if i did ride comp then i'd probably have to practice riding a crappy wave in shallow waters to be prepared...

FYI: filling fin holes: made a big difference on a new board i tried that i was not able to surf as far back on, it def helped... every bit of drag adds up! just posted a new topic about the board differences both hyperlite shims...2017 model is crap compared to 2015 model FYI.