Winterizing older Response Direct Drive - How many do it yourselves?

[sunvalleylaw]

We ended up going only to low mid 30's last night.  At least on my porch.  The 20's held off a night.  Supposed to start tonight for a few days.  

[justgary]

31 minutes ago, footndale said:

All you warm climate people talking about winterizing. Funny.

70 degree to 20s this week in Wisconsin.  Time to wax the snow skis.

True, but since it only takes one night of low twenties to crack a block, you still need to winterize.  In fact, it's probably worse since we're never sure when our season is over.  We start doing other things, and then winter happens all of a sudden on one or two days.

[oldjeep]

10 hours ago, justgary said:

Holy cow!  If we see lower twenties, it is only for two days in early February.

That is when we get the -20's

[sunvalleylaw]

Just now, oldjeep said:

That is when we get the -20's

We hit negatives, but only to -5 to -10 or so, and then usually in very late December into January sometime.  Not usually February.  Stanley, Idaho, about 45-60 minutes north, and launching pad for a lot of river rafting in the summer, is often the coldest recorded temp in the lower 48.  But Stanley is up in a different mountain basin.  We are on the edge of the Snake River and Camas Prairie plains.

[oldjeep]

18 minutes ago, sunvalleylaw said:

We hit negatives, but only to -5 to -10 or so, and then usually in very late December into January sometime.  Not usually February.  Stanley, Idaho, about 45-60 minutes north, and launching pad for a lot of river rafting in the summer, is often the coldest recorded temp in the lower 48.  But Stanley is up in a different mountain basin.  We are on the edge of the Snake River and Camas Prairie plains.

We can get a week of near -20 temps, although they are typically early to mid Jan

[sunvalleylaw]

3 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

We can get a week of near -20 temps, although they are typically early to mid Jan

Ok, yeah, timing is similar then.  Sometimes, we get a real dry spell, high pressure, and an inversion during that time too.  Not my favorite weather.  Good race course conditions, but I like new snow.  

[UWSkier]

2 hours ago, sunvalleylaw said:

Ok, yeah, timing is similar then.  Sometimes, we get a real dry spell, high pressure, and an inversion during that time too.  Not my favorite weather.  Good race course conditions, but I like new snow.  

Something I didn't realize until I started sledding out west is how much elevation plays a factor in "freeze factor."

-15F or colder in the Midwest hurts your face and chills you to the bone.  -15F at 8k elevation feels like a 20 degree day in the Midwest.

In theory that should hold true for our boats too.  Can probably crack a block more easily at 20F at 500' elevation than at 20F at 8k' assuming it warms up in the daytime.

[Raimie]

3 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Something I didn't realize until I started sledding out west is how much elevation plays a factor in "freeze factor."

-15F or colder in the Midwest hurts your face and chills you to the bone.  -15F at 8k elevation feels like a 20 degree day in the Midwest.

In theory that should hold true for our boats too.  Can probably crack a block more easily at 20F at 500' elevation than at 20F at 8k' assuming it warms up in the daytime.

I experienced this in Alaska as well. Maybe it's a humidity thing along with elevation?

[sunvalleylaw]

22 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Something I didn't realize until I started sledding out west is how much elevation plays a factor in "freeze factor."

-15F or colder in the Midwest hurts your face and chills you to the bone.  -15F at 8k elevation feels like a 20 degree day in the Midwest.

In theory that should hold true for our boats too.  Can probably crack a block more easily at 20F at 500' elevation than at 20F at 8k' assuming it warms up in the daytime.

 

18 hours ago, Raimie said:

I experienced this in Alaska as well. Maybe it's a humidity thing along with elevation?

I am originally from the PNW, and grew up water and snow skiing there, then moved to the high and dry of Idaho.  My anecdotal experience is that the moisture is the difference.  40-50 and wet can be bone chilling, and prime hypothermia weather.  Colder in the dry can feel warmer, if there is sun.  Since I moved to Idaho, it seems to make a big difference if you are in the sun or the shade.  Also, no matter what the temp range, the minute the sun is behind the mountains, it feels 10 degrees colder.  I guess that has something to do with the moisture in the air holding temp or something like that?  I am a lawyer.  Not a scientist.  But kinda like the moon is a zillion degrees on the sunny side, and negative zillion on the dark side (DSOTM album now is in my head).  Less atmosphere, and less moisture up in the high and dry.  If you are camping late in the summer, and do not put on a layer or two as the sun is going down, you will know it. It can be 80's during the day, and below freezing in the wee hours before dawn at Redfish, late in the year.

Also, not sure how that equates or works out as to how warm-blooded mammals experience it vs. your motor.  Seems to me 32 F or 0 C is the same regardless of elevation/humidity, (though more damaging frozen water is around with humidity) etc. if you are a motor.  

 

But again, the above is anecdotal, and I am a lawyer, not a scientist.

Edited October 12, 2018 by sunvalleylaw

[sunvalleylaw]

Was out of town and traveling yesterday and saw we had cold temps coming.  We had a temp of 27 last night for a couple hours.  I had gotten back in town late (but while temps were still up toward 40), and drained the hoses to the heater core, and the other hoses as per above, but forgot the low drains on the block.  Will get those today.  Hopefully nothing really happened, and based on what I have read over the years here since joining, not expecting anything.  

 

But guess it is that time of year!  Will go get the Delo, the Wix, and etc. and get that all done this coming weekend too I guess.  But will finish draining ahead of that.  

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by sunvalleylaw

[Eagleboy99]

58 minutes ago, sunvalleylaw said:

Hopefully nothing really happened

Almost certainly nothing happened.  The real issue is how daytime temps affect it.  I recall a number of years ago my recording thermometer pegged -9C one night!  But highs were sunny and 18C or so.  No damage.  I would not like to have it 27F for night after night.

[sunvalleylaw]

16 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Almost certainly nothing happened.  The real issue is how daytime temps affect it.  I recall a number of years ago my recording thermometer pegged -9C one night!  But highs were sunny and 18C or so.  No damage.  I would not like to have it 27F for night after night.

Yeah, it is calling for 46 today, 25 tonight, 51 then 27 tomorrow, then back up in the 50's during the day and just plus or minus freezing at night the rest of the week.  So, will finish draining thoroughly this morning, and not worry about it.  It would have been the heater core I was more worried about this time I think.  Then this weekend will do the oil and such this weekend.  I still do like to do the antifreeze, and I have plenty from last year as I used @oldjeep's suggestion on filling.  So may as well.   

 

EDIT:  all temps are Fahrenheit, because that's what I am used to here in the states.   . 

Edited September 30, 2019 by sunvalleylaw

[Michigan boarder]

For perspective, this is from a thread I did back in 2017 when I came close to freezing my engine.  

"I knew it was going to get cold, but figured I would drain the water on Thursday before the cold temps over the weekend.  I haven't seen an updated forecast in several days, spending all my time remodeling a house, getting little sleep, etc.  My boat is stored in a 35x20 pole barn at work, no insulation.  Yesterday it was 44 and sunny, no wind.  Here's how my morning went today:

07:00   28 degrees in my driveway.  I have a 41 mile commute via highways

07:20   20 degrees read on the car (I am halfway to work at this point, a little worried), temps read as low as 20 and high as 28 on my route

07:40   26 degrees read on the car, sun is coming up, arriving at work

07:45   I grab an infrared temp scanner and head to the pole barn

07:46   17 degrees scanned on the hand rail outside the office

07:46   17 degrees scanned on a truck that's been here since 05:45

07:46   32 degrees scanned on the pavement

07:47   13 degrees scanned on the grass

07:47   18 degrees scanned on the outside of the barn siding

07:47   33 degrees scanned on the concrete floor of the barn

07:48   26 degrees scanned on the hull of the boat.  I notice I had left the engine cover up.

07:48   26 degrees scanned on the engine block

07:49   open the port manifold petcock, water pours out.  Water comes out of the starboard one too.  No slush or obstructions.

07:50   open the block drains, water comes out, no slush or obstructions.

07:51   wrestle the j hose off, water comes out.

07:52   I reach down to the transmission cooler hose to disconnect and find that the water that has been draining and splashing around is crystalizing on the hull.

07:53   water out of the transmission cooler

That's about as close as you can get to wrecking an engine."

 

 

 

[MadMan]

33 minutes ago, Michigan boarder said:

 

07:48   26 degrees scanned on the engine block

That would be unnerving.

[mackie12]

well we got pounded with 30 cms of snow this weekend..... not too cold (-5C) but alot of damn snow.....

[sunvalleylaw]

So got out there and drained the block, with the low drains there.  No worries.  Clear water, flowing freely.  No slush.  The starboard manifold petcock was stubborn last night, so got that pulled today.  But broke the black square nylon piece in the process, leaving the nylon thread in the threaded part of the manifold.  Great!  Well, guess I will be figuring out how to get that stuff out of there this weekend.  Fair amount of rusty bits came out of that manifold too.  I guess that is pretty normal, but definitely will put in the antifreeze to try and help that.  

[DonT]

@sunvalleylaw -  I did  the same think w/ the manifold petcock a few years back on my Mercruiser 350 ski....I can't remember the tap size, but running a tap up through their, then flushing water through did the trick.

[sunvalleylaw]

1 minute ago, DonT said:

@sunvalleylaw -  I did  the same think w/ the manifold petcock a few years back on my Mercruiser 350 ski....I can't remember the tap size, but running a tap up through their, then flushing water through did the trick.

Thanks!

[Michigan boarder]

53 minutes ago, MadMan said:

That would be unnerving.

That whole morning was until the water was flowing!!

[Eagleboy99]

1 hour ago, sunvalleylaw said:

It would have been the heater core I was more worried about

Yup - fragile compared to a block

[sunvalleylaw]

On 9/30/2019 at 12:06 PM, DonT said:

@sunvalleylaw -  I did  the same think w/ the manifold petcock a few years back on my Mercruiser 350 ski....I can't remember the tap size, but running a tap up through their, then flushing water through did the trick.

Hey what sort of tap did you use?  For now, I just drained everything, and put the rv antifreeze in my heater core.  Will come back and do the rest after I can get this fixed.  

[DonT]

It was just a tap I borrowed from a friend, the problem is I don't remember the diameter and threads

  Sorry I can't be more of a help

 

[DOJOLOACH2]

On 10/2/2017 at 11:50 AM, oldjeep said:

You can fog the cylinders through plug holes.  Should not fog any port injection engine through the throttle body regardless of it has cats.

Why is this? I have the MPI 350 on my 97 echelon and fogged engine through the flame arrestor butterfly valves while idling. Was this not correct? 

[oldjeep]

45 minutes ago, DOJOLOACH2 said:

Why is this? I have the MPI 350 on my 97 echelon and fogged engine through the flame arrestor butterfly valves while idling. Was this not correct? 

Intake on a MPI system is a dry intake.  Spraying stuff in it just encourages crap to stick in there.

[DOJOLOACH2]

11 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Intake on a MPI system is a dry intake.  Spraying stuff in it just encourages crap to stick in there.

Do you recommend I summerize, cycle engine over, and rewinterize?