2018 Supra SL & 2018 Malibu 23LSV

[ahopkins22LSV]

6 hours ago, DarkSide said:

I agree with almost everything here,  it is really a function of what type of wave your trying to create.   Do you want absolute best possible, or 85% that still is fun, very rideable, just a bit smaller.  

 

 

Although the reports in the shawndoggy thread are that there is no measurable difference in the wave.

[NorrisMike]

So - You don't need to run as much ballast to get a good surf wave, no bags in the cabin or in the bow... BUT the newer generation boats are getting YUGE.  When comparing the past 6 generations, it doesn't appear to me that the waves are getting THAT much bigger/better (maybe I'm wrong here).  It does seem like its getting easier to surf.  Hit a button, wait 6-10 minutes and GO.  The convenience factor is getting better but the result isn't changing much and in some cases the CF is the same (filling a bow bag).  

Am I wrong here?

 

 

 

[Wakesetter67]

57 minutes ago, NorrisMike said:

So - You don't need to run as much ballast to get a good surf wave, no bags in the cabin or in the bow... BUT the newer generation boats are getting YUGE.  When comparing the past 6 generations, it doesn't appear to me that the waves are getting THAT much bigger/better (maybe I'm wrong here).  It does seem like its getting easier to surf.  Hit a button, wait 6-10 minutes and GO.  The convenience factor is getting better but the result isn't changing much and in some cases the CF is the same (filling a bow bag).  

Am I wrong here?

 

 

 

I think it was said before, we were all so use to the practice of More is better, These are different Hull designs and don't require as much weight, I personally feel its all about the right combination, It took me a while to figure that out with my VLX and we got  that boat dialed, and it was not over weighting it. I loved this new 23 right out of the box and look forward to playing around with different set ups, 

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, NorrisMike said:

So - You don't need to run as much ballast to get a good surf wave, no bags in the cabin or in the bow... BUT the newer generation boats are getting YUGE.  When comparing the past 6 generations, it doesn't appear to me that the waves are getting THAT much bigger/better (maybe I'm wrong here).  It does seem like its getting easier to surf.  Hit a button, wait 6-10 minutes and GO.  The convenience factor is getting better but the result isn't changing much and in some cases the CF is the same (filling a bow bag).  

Am I wrong here?

 

 

 

So I guess it depends on what you want to compare. A 2013 through most 2015's compared to and 2018, there is a huge improvement. A 2017 lsv to a 2018? Probably not as much of an actual wave improvement, but improvement on how to achieve that wave which historically was the biggest complaint, having to run huge PNP with a bow bag. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by ahopkinsTXi

[DarkSide]

@NorrisMike, the rules of physics still apply.  It takes displacement to make a wave.  What is changing is the source of said displacements and location.  For a given hull size say 23', if as time goes on you make that boat heavier (dry weight) you need less PNP, if you increase hard tank you need less PNP,  if you increase wedge size (PW2) you need less PNP to achieve similar results.  In the case of the 23 LSV over the last 5 years, dry weight is up 400 pounds, PW2, and now L shaped hard tanks hold more as well.  

Same thing on bow weight, moving batteries to the Bow is huge here, so end of the day your displacing same amount just with smaller PNP bags.

All that said there is also a reason the M235/24MXZ  are Malibu's best surf boat's.  They are heaviest dry, have more ballast and the deepest draft.    

 

[ibelonginprison]

On 9/16/2017 at 6:52 AM, bamaboy said:

Have you considered a centurion?

Not sure he wants to own the UPS Delivery Truck of the wakeboat community.

[DarkSide]

32 minutes ago, ibelonginprison said:

Not sure he wants to own the UPS Delivery Truck of the wakeboat community.

I don't know, there's something to be said for a boat that reliably "delivers the goods" day in and day out.  

I do get what your saying, the Ri is definitely not the sexiest beast out there.  The FI looks really good though.

Edited September 19, 2017 by DarkSide

[carguy79ta]

echoing what Darkside said.. the surfgate and tabs that other boats use enhance the wake but it is the sheer displacement of drywt plus added ballast that provides the foundation of a great wave. bigger is better in this case.

[IXFE]

I could be wrong, but prior gen 23 LSV was listed at 4500 lbs while the new one is 5350 lbs. so the difference is 850 lbs.

By comparison, the 25 LSV is listed at 5600 lbs. 

[DarkSide]

5300 is about right i got 4500 from a dealer ad, so i trust your 5300 more than a dealer ad.   ESPECIALLY as it helps my point 😎.....  pnp is being replaced by dry weight, it's not that less weight is required, it's more weight is INCLUDED!  

@IXFE do you have ballast number? It used to be 1350....

[Wakesetter67]

34 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

5300 is about right i got 4500 from a dealer ad, so i trust your 5300 more than a dealer ad.   ESPECIALLY as it helps my point 😎.....  pnp is being replaced by dry weight, it's not that less weight is required, it's more weight is INCLUDED!  

@IXFE do you have ballast number? It used to be 1350....

Bow-260 + Battery's

Center-540

Rear 400 Per side-800

Subfloor-1600 (1200 lbs. 2017 )

PNP-550.

Total Ballast-2700 

PWll-1500 

TTL-4200 

[Afun]

On 9/18/2017 at 11:55 PM, DarkSide said:

Careful, your gonna start upsetting folks...  Ri demos are like Fight Club, first rule, don't talk about RI demos.  

I'm not hearing the best things about Malibu. It seems all the good things are about Centurion & Supra. 

[Afun]

On 9/18/2017 at 10:37 PM, NorrisMike said:

If 450 is good.... would 1000 be better?  I know the @Afun  ninja boat seemed to respond well to more weight.  

@Capdoogie Were you throwing more weight in the rear lockers? 

 

The Ninja was just special. 

[granddaddy55]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:16 AM, ronixride said:

Found this video on FB.  

 

Guarantee he rides a flow rider

[Fffrank]

12 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

Guarantee he rides a flow rider

Have you spent much time in one?  WAAAAY different of a feel than behind a boat (or a real wave.)

[AJwakedevil]

4 hours ago, Fffrank said:

Have you spent much time in one?  WAAAAY different of a feel than behind a boat (or a real wave.)

BOard control translates tho.

[NorrisMike]

I got a chance to get out on the Supra SL.  It really is an awesome boat.  All of the changes they've made are really nice.  I'll ramble some random thoughts..

At a glance the boat seems/feels much bigger on the water.  For only have 5" more vs the 23LSV it seems much larger in comparison. It is a very roomy spacious boat.  The bow is also very sizable and larger than the 23LSV and I like that it was a removable bow walk thru cushion.  I like the new "spork" @67King hybrid bow vs full on pickle-fork front.  The tower is super solid and the new bimini is the best I've seen - It's like 8ft long, super easy to stow and deploy, solid and has board storage. The power function of the tower is cool and simple and I like that they make a cover to go over the whole boat when tower is stowed way.  I like not having bags in the rear lockers and they've finished it off nicely. The factory JL stereo with 2 subs and 4 tower speakers sounds great for factory stock.  I wish the tower speakers were mounted more towards the outside - I bumped my head (i'm 6'1") a few times on them.  Tons of foot room at the helm.  I love the in-floor storage compartment - It is surprisingly deep -  I would definitely use that as a cooler spot! The rear trunk/seat/board storage area is awesome and I'd use that all the time for wet items and boards - @IXFE would def not enjoy the firmness of the bench seat tho...  I love the trash area and I would use that all the time.  The flip-around seat is cool but the bracket/hinge could be a shin buster. The surf wave was sizable and easy to setup with a push of a button.  The factory stock settings is where we had it.  Nice surf wave....  not @DarkSide Centurion Ri257 size but still a really nice wave.  We did not mess with Auto-Wake - i'm not interested in that.  We did move around the boat to see the effects of the surf wave and it didn't seem to phase it.  I like the 2 rear-camera options. Dash is functional and the ease of the switches are a plus. The upholstery seams, material and patterns are pretty amazing 

 

Supra does seem to be trying harder than others and to me, it shows.  I have yet to demo the 23LSV but intend to. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jwl019]

3 minutes ago, NorrisMike said:

I got a chance to get out on the Supra SL.  It really is an awesome boat.  All of the changes they've made are really nice.  I'll ramble some random thoughts..

At a glance the boat seems/feels much bigger on the water.  For only have 5" more vs the 23LSV it seems much larger in comparison. It is a very roomy spacious boat.  The bow is also very sizable and larger than the 23LSV and I like that it was a removable bow walk thru cushion.  I like the new "spork" @67King hybrid bow vs full on pickle-fork front.  The tower is super solid and the new bimini is the best I've seen - It's like 8ft long, super easy to stow and deploy, solid and has board storage. The power function of the tower is cool and simple and I like that they make a cover to go over the whole boat when tower is stowed way.  I like not having bags in the rear lockers and they've finished it off nicely. The factory JL stereo with 2 subs and 4 tower speakers sounds great for factory stock.  I wish the tower speakers were mounted more towards the outside - I bumped my head (i'm 6'1") a few times on them.  Tons of foot room at the helm.  I love the in-floor storage compartment - It is surprisingly deep -  I would definitely use that as a cooler spot! The rear trunk/seat/board storage area is awesome and I'd use that all the time for wet items and boards - @IXFE would def not enjoy the firmness of the bench seat tho...  I love the trash area and I would use that all the time.  The flip-around seat is cool but the bracket/hinge could be a shin buster. The surf wave was sizable and easy to setup with a push of a button.  The factory stock settings is where we had it.  Nice surf wave....  not @DarkSide Centurion Ri257 size but still a really nice wave.  We did not mess with Auto-Wake - i'm not interested in that.  We did move around the boat to see the effects of the surf wave and it didn't seem to phase it.  I like the 2 rear-camera options. Dash is functional and the ease of the switches are a plus. The upholstery seams, material and patterns are pretty amazing 

 

Supra does seem to be trying harder than others and to me, it shows.  I have yet to demo the 23LSV but intend to. 

 

 

 

 

Does the 400 seem to be enough to push the boat sufficiently?  The base motor in the SE is the 450 and it is only 1'-1" longer and is actually 100 pounds less dry weight than the SL per the specs on their page.

[NorrisMike]

2 hours ago, jwl019 said:

Does the 400 seem to be enough to push the boat sufficiently?  The base motor in the SE is the 450 and it is only 1'-1" longer and is actually 100 pounds less dry weight than the SL per the specs on their page.

I'm not sure what drive ratio and prop comes on the SL from the factory but it felt sufficient.  It wasn't going to win any races or anything and I bet the top speed is around 34 mph.  

[Tims]

Nice write up. I love the fit and finish on that Supra. Will be interesting to read your comparison to the LSV. 

[bamaboy]

@NorrisMike, did you surf/wakeboard it?  Any pics of the wave/wake?

[Tims]

19 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

@NorrisMike, did you surf/wakeboard it?  Any pics of the wave/wake?

Did you not see Mike's foot in the picture? 

 

[bamaboy]

14 minutes ago, Tims said:

Did you not see Mike's foot in the picture? 

 

I didn't but I do now.  So how does one comment on the quality of the wave without surfing it?  

 

Or at least post a pic of the wave.  What is this?  amateur hour?

Edited September 25, 2017 by bamaboy

[DarkSide]

NorrisMike made no comment on "quality" of the wave, merely size, and shape.  Honestly almost ANY 2018 will produce a pretty wave.   Even then a picture tells you almost nothing, same with video.   

Firmness, and power can only be determined by demo.  The truth is NOT on the water, it is IN THE WATER!   

Example.  Which is better top or bottom? And why?  They are night and day different.

 

[IXFE]

You're right, I'm sure I'm the only guy who'd rather sit on a padded seat....