2018 Supra SL & 2018 Malibu 23LSV

[Fman]

Since 2010 people have been talking about the boat bubble bursting.  I always tell people buy the boat you want today because next year it will cost you another 3-5% more.  This has proven true year after year.

With the Dow predicted to hit 27,000, new corporate tax cuts, new income tax reduction for majority of Americans and Apple just announcing another 20,000 new jobs with a new facility being built there is no indication economy will be slowing down anytime soon.  IMO this will have a direct correlation to boat sales and prices continuing to go up.

[bamaboy]

The bubble will pop when the economy collapses just like during the housing market in the late 2000s.  @Fman is far more optimistic than I am on the health of the economy.  Keep printing that USD baby!

[COOP]

On 9/25/2017 at 10:50 PM, skurfer said:

It's called punt wax. The pros call it cheater wax. I rode for the first time with it recently and was blown away. The board literally is glued to your feet! My pre-conceived notion that it would just be a little grippier. NO, you AIR and the board is stuck to your feet. Almost like riding with bindings..I guarantee you'll get 6 more inches. Big downfall, it gets all over your feet, you have to use a wax remover, then dish soap or shampoo...otherwise it will get all over the boat.. Ashley Kidd and Allison SOS (Soulcraft Hot SOS) are the only ones who don't use

Ocean surfers have used wax forever. Biggest problem I had with wax was it would pull my chest hairs out while paddling out. But the traction is fantastic. I never had use a wax remover, different type of wax?  Zogs sex wax was what popular when I was surfing back then.

[Monkeybutt]

well - topic went off track for a while … so here's a comparison finally … got it yesterday - maiden voyage in a few hours … summer is finally here.  As some may remember - the draft was one of my main concerns and I will report on that one as well … before I hit a stump

Edited May 3, 2018 by Monkeybutt
grammar

[nyryan2001]

Great looking boat Monkey.

Are the seats hinged or they old style removable to access compartments?

[Monkeybutt]

Nope all hinged

what I liked about the 2017LSV was the carpet protecting the gel coat ,,,, dogs and humans carrying sand into the boat ... now I’m alreadt collecting on day 5

but there are some positives - still learning ... the 400raptor is quieter than on the Bu ... May obviously be an apple to oranges comparison due to model year difference .... 

went with the wrong prop so had to dial pitch down to 15x12.5 ... the 15x15.75 didn’t get the boat to plane when fully loaded ... had low rpms for surfing .... about 2900 .... but no wakeboarding beyond half filled ballast tanks and struggling.

that is fixed since yesterday and trying to understand the whole autowake feature ... will do a write up once I actually do comprehend it myself ... too early but one baffling thing ... despite prop torque etc. the system fills the right rear tank more than the left (both surfing and wakeboarding) ...and it is right ... so lots to learn and understand 

.

[Cole2001]

Awesome! Your boats have been by far my favourite colour schemes over the last while! 

The lower pitched props definitely give off a lot more torque for getting going. How does the 400 do? I would have suspected minimum 440, as I was told that struggles to get going on the sl.

[IXFE]

39 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Awesome! Your boats have been by far my favourite colour schemes over the last while! 

The lower pitched props definitely give off a lot more torque for getting going. How does the 400 do? I would have suspected minimum 440, as I was told that struggles to get going on the sl.

What’s worse is the SL still uses a 1.48 : 1 transmission, which by today’s standards is kinda old school. I can’t imagine running a heavy, modern, 23 foot wakeboat with 3500 lbs of ballast using only the Raptor 400 and that old transmission. Just seems like a tough combination. That tranny is likely why the Raptor seems quieter in the Supra. 

[nyryan2001]

Unless the prop angle in greatly improved... a SL 450 even using a 15x12 prop will be mediocre performance at best.

same issue why 450hp 2013 G23s are shunned.  adequate, but mediocre power wise

[Cole2001]

I was talking to a dealership friend with an sl and it had the 450. He claims the wave just keeps getting better with more and more weight but it can’t habdle the extra bit. 

In my rzx3 I have the 440 raptor with the 15x12, could I have more power? Yes but it gets to speed with 4500 in weight no problem. I believe it’s the 1.78 tranny or something like that. The guys with the 2:1 in the rzx2 are easily running 4000 and the raptor 400 no problem what so ever.

[Monkeybutt]

I have opened up another thread about the prop issue but some of the info here is valuable too - I had no idea that the transmission ratio wasn't the same as for the 23LSV - so that's obviously a pretty important factor … thanks IXFE!

As said in my other thread - we're still learning - in particular to understand autowake vs. doing it manually.  So I'm hesitant to compare the first 3 days on the water - because none is somewhat comparable.  First the prop issue - then after replacing it Saturday we struggled with setup (performance was ok but hole shot for example was missing, zero off didn't adjust during turns).  Come yesterday and hole shot is entirely different (don't ask me why - literally on Saturday you could just slam it down and you got a soft pull up for the rider behind you but during turns it fell back to 14mph).  Yesterday hole shot as it should be, no problems during turns - boat accelerates/compensates … so don't want to predict today.  RPMs went up - so noise level is also close to what the 23LSV was and the wakeboarding RPMs are too high - I would expect 3000 to 3200 with 50% ballast or less.

Bottom line the 400 has no problem with this prop - that's no longer an issue.  But as mentioned in the prop thread - there might still be a better option

and for bragging purposes … but being my first boat with black … I see ceramic coating in the very near future

[Cole2001]

Ceramic coat it while it’s still fresh

[formulaben]

16 minutes ago, Monkeybutt said:

But as mentioned in the prop thread - there might still be a better option

and for bragging purposes … but being my first boat with black … I see ceramic coating in the very near future

On the prop?!  Will that preclude you from being able to get it tuned or recupped?

[Monkeybutt]

7 minutes ago, formulaben said:

On the prop?!  Will that preclude you from being able to get it tuned or recupped?

uh oh … no - the black gel coat …

[formulaben]

Are you running in salt water?

[Monkeybutt]

nope but I don't like to wipe down the black area all the time …

[ConnollyCrew]

On 5/7/2018 at 12:27 AM, IXFE said:

What’s worse is the SL still uses a 1.48 : 1 transmission, which by today’s standards is kinda old school. I can’t imagine running a heavy, modern, 23 foot wakeboat with 3500 lbs of ballast using only the Raptor 400 and that old transmission. Just seems like a tough combination. That tranny is likely why the Raptor seems quieter in the Supra. 

Buy your fuel directly from the distributor, you will need it. Beautiful boat, If it had the correct power train it would be at the top of my list. 

[IXFE]

1 minute ago, ConnollyCrew said:

Buy your fuel directly from the distributor, you will need it. Beautiful boat, If it had the correct power train it would be at the top of my list. 

I haven’t actually demo’d the SL, just using logic with my comments about the power train. Good to know I’m not way off base. 

The SL550 is probably the way to go in that boat, but then we’re talking G23 price points. 

So strange to me that Supra wouldn’t put 2:1 and 17” prop on this boat. 

[ConnollyCrew]

18 hours ago, IXFE said:

I haven’t actually demo’d the SL, just using logic with my comments about the power train. Good to know I’m not way off base. 

The SL550 is probably the way to go in that boat, but then we’re talking G23 price points. 

So strange to me that Supra wouldn’t put 2:1 and 17” prop on this boat. 

I honestly don’t beleive they know that it’s inadequate. I spoke to a Supra guy (a person that gets paid with a Supra paycheck) asking him about the power train and seemed to have a deer in the headlights reaction. It was odd as I seemed to be more in tune with the power train than he was. After that conversation I can say that upgrading the power train doesn’t seem to be anywhere on their radar. 

The SL is an awesome boat, just not a fan of the higher rpms. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by ConnollyCrew

[Jason L]

What rpms are you running in your new 23LSV while surfing?  You have the 400, right?  I demo'd the SL and 23LSV and I didn't think it was a remarkable difference.  But, it had the  prop that was recommended for the 400, the 2775.

[NWBU]

7 hours ago, Jason L said:

What rpms are you running in your new 23LSV while surfing?  You have the 400, right?  I demo'd the SL and 23LSV and I didn't think it was a remarkable difference.  But, it had the  prop that was recommended for the 400, the 2775.

I'm at 3500-3800 rpms in my '18 with the 410 and 2277 prop, depending on speed and wedge settings. PNP is the Wakemaker 475s but I'm only filling the rear to 75% and have 400-500 lbs in a walkway bag.

[Fman]

1 hour ago, NWBU said:

I'm at 3500-3800 rpms in my '18 with the 410 and 2277 prop, depending on speed and wedge settings. PNP is the Wakemaker 475s but I'm only filling the rear to 75% and have 400-500 lbs in a walkway bag.

Assuming you have LSV not SL?  If its SL disregard. 

How do you like the wave with 350-400 in rear lockers? I am running same in my 17 LSV along with full hard tanks.  Have been very pleased with wave with minimal weight.  I dont even run a bow/walkway bag.  I do have at least 1 person in bow and usually 4-7 on board.  Pretty much gone are the days for me of running a bow bag.   No complaints from anyone surfing or having issues staying in pocket.  Maybe we have lower expectations?  I am having a blast surfing this recipe....

Am I the only one on the less weight works surf diet or is everyone still loading up rear 800+ and 650+ bow?

#dumpsumballast #eazysurfin #whatbowbag? #lightislessfilling #bettergph 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Fman

[NWBU]

58 minutes ago, Fman said:

Assuming you have LSV not SL?  If its SL disregard. 

How do you like the wave with 350-400 in rear lockers? I am running same in my 17 LSV along with full hard tanks.  Have been very pleased with wave with minimal weight.  I dont even run a bow/walkway bag.  I do have at least 1 person in bow and usually 4-7 on board.  Pretty much gone are the days for me of running a bow bag.   No complaints from anyone surfing or having issues staying in pocket.  Maybe we have lower expectations?  I am having a blast surfing this recipe....

Am I the only one on the less weight works surf diet or is everyone still loading up rear 800+ and 650+ bow?

#dumpsumballast #eazysurfin #whatbowbag? #lightislessfilling #bettergph 

I really liked the setup I was running this morning on my '18 LSV with rear tanks and 475 PNPs at 75% (the new rear tanks fill the PNP somewhat simultaneously), wedge 2-3 clicks from stow and speeds were 10-10.6. We did have 400lbs in the walkway and a crew of 3 guys plus a kid, but nobody in the bow. RPM's were 3500 at 10.0 with a 2277 and 3700 at 10.6.

I've found on the '18 that full PNP (which is 475s for me, but 580s for many) results in too much spill over the surfgates so I can't run more than 75% in the rear without a fair amount of extra bow weight to compensate.

I'm going to play with no walkway weight and 50-75% in the rears next time but the crew I had this morning made me save today's setup as a preset. I suspect I'll keep running a walkway bag or maybe put some lead in the observers compartment instead.

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by NWBU

[Pnwrider]

5 hours ago, NWBU said:

I'm at 3500-3800 rpms in my '18 with the 410 and 2277 prop, depending on speed and wedge settings. PNP is the Wakemaker 475s but I'm only filling the rear to 75% and have 400-500 lbs in a walkway bag.

What’s your rpm when you cruise at say 25 mph? I’m looking to switch from the 2249... 

[NWBU]

11 minutes ago, Pnwrider said:

What’s your rpm when you cruise at say 25 mph? I’m looking to switch from the 2249... 

I want to say around 3500 but don’t quote me on that. I’ll check next time out if someone else doesn’t chime in.

I’m pretty happy with the 2277 so far but had ordered the 2249 after my demo last fall seemed underpropped with 7 in the boat and full 580 PNPs. The demo went better after dumping some rear weight but made me nervous about the prop/gearing ratio so I think I’m partly to blame for a few of you ordering that prop too. I know one dealer in TX is ordering all their stock boats with the 2249.

What are you seeing for RPMs in various surf and cruise setups with the 2249?