M235 and RI257 compare and contrast

[05hammerhead]

7 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Since we are already WAY off topic, what did you think about the Cobalt?  I saw some Instagram photos of that boat over the last week where the wave actually looked very impressive.

Ive seen the same, but with a price tag bigger than all other inboards, itd be an easy call.

[dealjb]

46 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

On a side note we had a "surf fest" type event here over the weekend.  Boats were S238, RI237, A24, M235, SA400, X23, Cobalt R7, G23 and B52.

@bamaboy My two favorites were Ri237/X23  Long, steep, firm waves.  Neither outshined the other, both were really good. 

As @TenTwentyOne noted a lot of people like the big Flatish wave. So the A24 was really liked by the skim crowd.   Mellowest wave at the event.

Dark

Curious of your thought on the B52 wave in comparison to A24?

[RyanB]

11 minutes ago, 05hammerhead said:

Ive seen the same, but with a price tag bigger than all other inboards, itd be an easy call.

When I looked at the stickers at the Denver Boat Show, prices seemed comparable to an inboard.

And I am sure I am in the minority here, but if I could get a sterndrive boat with a surf wake equal to what I have now, but with the ability to ride significantly more comfortably across rough water, and run 50 + MPH, it would be an easy call for me as well.  I am just not sure that boat exists.

[DarkSide]

34 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Since we are already WAY off topic, what did you think about the Cobalt?  I saw some Instagram photos of that boat over the last week where the wave actually looked very impressive.

I had very low expectations, but was blown away with how good the wave was.  The boat had an additional  750 in the center locker and a 400 in the seating area.  So a bit more than stock.  Wave wanted speed so we were in the 12's very loooooong wave.  Yet still had power and good shape.  It fell apart just over 13 MPH.   The boat itself was also really nice.   It was cool to surf, then blast back to the marina at 50MPH in COMFORT!  If I lived on a big lake, and cruised a decent amount, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.   Wave from this boat would not limit my surfing.  I am far from a great surfer,  but my size limits me to certain wave types.  I need powerful firm waves.  The R7 delivered

Like many of the regional differences, here the R7 was low 140's.  

Edited February 21, 2018 by DarkSide

[TenTwentyOne]

4 minutes ago, RyanB said:

When I looked at the stickers at the Denver Boat Show, prices seemed comparable to an inboard.

And I am sure I am in the minority here, but if I could get a sterndrive boat with a surf wake equal to what I have now, but with the ability to ride significantly more comfortably across rough water, and run 50 + MPH, it would be an easy call for me as well.  I am just not sure that boat exists.

The biggest drawback for most people on the forward drive setup, is the draft........ They need like 50" of water, and trimming up actually makes matters worse..... Nobody on my lake can have them, because the channel where the marina and fuel station is, is 4 feet deep.

From my one experience ever surfing one, I would say it wasn't completely terrible, but it wasn't great either. The wave looked good, but was extremely soft. The biggest downside was you had to stay absolutely straight. Turning the wheel, even a little bit, completely destroys the wave. (which makes perfect sense with that drive setup)

[NAW]

I too was at the event ( 9+  hours each day at the helm of the M235 pulling wakesurfers), so I was able to get feedback from every wakesurfer there on every boat they had ridden up to the point they were on my boat.  And I talked to nearly every one of the 32 entrants.

One of the biggest takeaways for me was how two wakesurfers of the same ability level could have completely different descriptions of the same boats wave.  

The few pro level surfers would slay anything and do it with a smile.  The intermediate surfers would struggle with the waves they weren't familiar with, but by the tail end of the set would have it figured out.  Those with less ability would struggle on anything that was foreign to them and say how they didn't like the wave/it was the boats fault/etc.  

All in all, it was a fun event for us and the team that put it on did a great job.  The cross section of people that a wakesurf event attracts is diverse as the opinions of what wave is 'best'.

I can't wait to go wakeboarding.

Edited February 21, 2018 by NAW
..

[DarkSide]

19 minutes ago, dealjb said:

Dark

Curious of your thought on the B52 wave in comparison to A24?

Very different setups, B52 was slammed, A24 stock (750 PNP).  I liked the shape and feel of the B52 wave better.  However the boat itself tough to buy B52 when it's priced so close to others.  The A24 I can see the draw to that boat.  It had probably best skim wave there.  A lot of folks really liked it.  

[DarkSide]

@NAW is spot on!  VERY personal preference!  Things that make me like something, are the same things that make others hate it.  So very, very subjective!   Overall the people I chatted with liked the A24 for skim, X23 for surf, and were completely surprised how good the COBALT was. 

It's also tough, your feeling on the 4th boat of the day vs your first.   By the time your on your 4th/5th rotation people are tired!  

Another point that goes with what NAW is saying, is people were also riding different boards constantly too.  So new boat, new board, everything is different.   I can say the only boat I did not have a great time behind was the S238... it way underweight on first day, supposedly much better on day 2.

Edited February 21, 2018 by DarkSide

[Stevo]

7 minutes ago, NAW said:

Those with less ability would struggle on anything that was foreign to them and say how they didn't like the wave/it was the boats fault/etc.  

Probably the most true statement in this thread

Edited February 21, 2018 by Stevo

[NAW]

20 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

@NAW is spot on!  VERY personal preference!  Things that make me like something, are the same things that make others hate it.  So very, very subjective!   Overall the people I chatted with liked the A24 for skim, X23 for surf, and were completely surprised how good the COBALT was. 

It's also tough, your feeling on the 4th boat of the day vs your first.   By the time your on your 4th/5th rotation people are tired!  

Another point that goes with what NAW is saying, is people were also riding different boards constantly too.  So new boat, new board, everything is different.   I can say the only boat I did not have a great time behind was the S238... it way underweight on first day, supposedly much better on day 2.

 

I can agree, people were on new equipment constantly.

BUT

I had an advanced wakesurfer on my boat near the end of the day, never been on a Surfgate equipped Malibu, threw her three different boards in her set, both sides of the wake, at different wedge settings (without telling her) and she killed it, boosting huge airs, and even landed a first trick for her behind the boat.  And it had nothing to do with the boat or board.

Point being, if you're good at wakesurfing (same for wakeboarding), the board and boat aren't the culprit if you can't perform behind the boat.

[DarkSide]

2 minutes ago, NAW said:

Point being, if you're good at wakesurfing (same for wakeboarding), the board and boat aren't the culprit if you can't perform behind the boat.

True to a point,  but you don't see many 300+ pro wakeboarder/surfers.  There are some boards/waves this group will struggle with.  It is 100% the rider,  but this group will look for boats and boards to help compensate for thier lack of abilities or physical limitations.  

 

 

[Chrisjjbrown]

3 hours ago, DarkSide said:

True to a point,  but you don't see many 300+ pro wakeboarder/surfers.  There are some boards/waves this group will struggle with.  It is 100% the rider,  but this group will look for boats and boards to help compensate for thier lack of abilities or physical limitations.  

 

 

As they say we have to walk before we can run...... the boat can't do all the work for you.  

We should start here.....

http://drexel.edu/recathletics/wellness/BeginnersGuideExercise/

 

 

 

[IXFE]

5 hours ago, DarkSide said:

On a side note we had a "surf fest" type event here over the weekend.  Boats were S238, RI237, A24, M235, SA400, X23, Cobalt R7, G23 and B52.

@bamaboy My two favorites were Ri237/X23  Long, steep, firm waves.  Neither outshined the other, both were really good. 

As @TenTwentyOne noted a lot of people like the big Flatish wave. So the A24 was really liked by the skim crowd.   Mellowest wave at the event.

Newsflash everybody....

The Centurion guy loves the Ri and takes a veiled shot at the Malibu product. 

[Chrisjjbrown]

8 hours ago, bamaboy said:

Summary of boat show brands-in my region only.  Your results may vary and in no way are these prices and trends applicable to all regions.  

1)Centurion-JJ and I were pretty impressed by the Ri.  I still hate the snake skin looking vinyl they always use.  Get rid of that crap already.  Also some sketchy design choices.  However, the boat is massive and fit/finish is on par with Malibu.  Plus, as many have attested here the wave is second to none.  I would need to surf it to confirm but they are gaining ground.   It was funny how hard the rep and salesman were pushing that video study.  Just blatantly bashing Malibu for their gas performance.  

2)Malibu-seem to be holding ground for the most part.  I question some of the design choices on the new 23 LSV and I believe they are losing ground in terms of being known as the "bang for the buck" or "value" alternative to MC and CC.  You can get a "surf ready" XT 23 for 99K and a nicely equipped SAN 230 for mid to high 90s.  I'd take the fit/finish of both of those over a 23 LSV.  The XT 23 does surf like crap but I hear the 230 throws out a nice wave.  23 LSV performance is not in question.  On water performance for Bu remains their strong suit compared to MC and CC IMO.

3)MC-Super nice fit and finish.  I don't trust the surf wave on any boat other than the Xstar.  I hear it is nice but only from MC slappies.  I would need to surf one.  Price at my show was outrageous at 180K.  But that was only 10% off MSRP.  I'm guessing you could do a lot better

4)CC-Nicest fit/finish and I found it interesting that the 210/230 have evolved in the "budget" model for CC.  Apparently they kept the price the same from 2017 and added the new features.  you can get a 210 for mid to low 80s and a 230 for mid 90s.  That's a helluva deal IMO.  The GS series is very nice as well.  GS20 in the 90s, 22 in the 100s and 24 in the 110s.  I don't trust the waves with stock ballast only.  Apparently more weight is needed.  

5)MB-I like them less than last year.  I think just because the price is going up.  Right around 85-90 for a nicely equipped B52 23.  Apparently the new surf wave is good as they went back to the old hull on the B52.   It would be hard for me to buy one over a 230 for 5K more.

6)Supra/Moomba-Moomba seems like a good value.  They are increasing features and holding right around mid to low 60s.  Supra seems like they are kind of getting lost in the crowd.  For resale alone, I would pick another brand.  They don't offer better cost, features, or really anything else compared to others.  I guess their warranty is better (7 years).  That's all I could see.  

7)Tige-gimme a break.  150 MSRP and 120 boat show price on their 22 foot top tier boat line.  Laughable.  The fit and finish is a joke compared to equally priced boats.  

8)Axis-I saved this one for last so most people have stopped reading.  We crawled around an A24 and well....my mom told me that if I don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.  Let's just say I hope the wake/wave are really really good to justify that price.  Wow....

This is a good review Bama, however on MC

MC's tops boats (Xstar, X23)  are very, very,  nice.   The attention to detail and aesthetic appearance are second to none.   These come with a very large Price tag as well, with reviews of average performance.  

As you move down the product line from master craft the aesthetics of these boats start to disappear and the boats become very unimpressive for the premium they command over the competition.  Nice vinyl but the layout and styling of the boats is not on par with Malibu, Nautique, and others.   I would describe it like this..... When I sit in a Nautique or a Malibu regardless of the model they all have similar look and feel.  

When I sit in the lower model master crafts it feels to me like I am sitting in a different manufactures boat. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Chrisjjbrown

[RCorsa]

I notice there has been very little comparison of the ri237 and the m235 from the so called “experts” in comparison? Is this because the m235 is less common or so much more expensive than the competition??? I mean honestly how is the LSV in any way comparable to the M235????

Edited February 21, 2018 by RCorsa

[Chrisjjbrown]

1 minute ago, RCorsa said:

I notice there has been very little comparison of the ri237 and the m235 from the so called “experts” in comparison? Is this because the m235 is less common or so much more expensive than the competition???

M235's are mythical creatures that are not available to be ridden or seen by those that don't have a whipping boy to detail their triple later painted Ferraris.....

[DarkSide]

4 hours ago, DarkSide said:

The A24 I can see the draw to that boat.  It had probably best skim wave there.  A lot of folks really liked it.  

Your right @IXFE i was BRUTAL on the Malibu product!   I hope that such a scathing statement doesn't offend too many.   

One of the guys in my group had never ridden a surf style board before this event.  Guess what shape he loved,  yep A24.  Fyi.. he was also 350ish.   

So read into it whatever you like.... 

 

[IXFE]

6 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

Your right @IXFE i was BRUTAL on the Malibu product!   I hope that such a scathing statement doesn't offend too many.   

One of the guys in my group had never ridden a surf style board before this event.  Guess what shape he loved,  yep A24.  Fyi.. he was also 350ish.   

So read into it whatever you like.... 

 

There it is again.  So classic.  The A24... official choice of all overweight beginners.  Why?  Because Darkside had a conversation with a total stranger who says so... 

Look... I’ve been to plenty of events like this and listened to all the chatter... I think it’s funny that you think any of it matters or that folks here would care what a bunch of random strangers of varying abilities think about ANY surf waves. 

Welcome back, by the way... from wherever you’ve been. 

[bamaboy]

34 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

Your right @IXFE i was BRUTAL on the Malibu product!   I hope that such a scathing statement doesn't offend too many.   

One of the guys in my group had never ridden a surf style board before this event.  Guess what shape he loved,  yep A24.  Fyi.. he was also 350ish.   

So read into it whatever you like.... 

 

I took it the same way @IXFE did

 

I think we're all just so used to the veiled Bu bashing and the glorification of Centurion that we can't help it.  

 

It is called operant conditioning.  Remember Pavlov's dogs?  He would ring a bell then feed his dogs.  He noticed that when he did this their mouth watered.  Then he did it so many times that he could get their mouth to water when he just rang the bell without food.  You rang the damn bell too much @DarkSide

Edited February 21, 2018 by bamaboy

[DarkSide]

@bamaboy It was absolutely NOT intended that way.   Honestly meant as a compliment,  as was the size of the rider.   

That rider was not a beginner,  he has ridden skim for years,  he came to this event to try Surf style boards.  

Edited February 21, 2018 by DarkSide

[Stevo]

31 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

I took it the same way @IXFE did

 

I think we're all just so used to the veiled Bu bashing and the glorification of Centurion that we can't help it.  

 

It is called operant conditioning.  Remember Pavlov's dogs?  He would ring a bell then feed his dogs.  He noticed that when he did this their mouth watered.  Then he did it so many times that he could get their mouth to water when he just rang the bell without food.  You rang the damn bell too much @DarkSide

I thought that was Schrödinger's cat? 

Only in this case the opinions of these “surf experts” are both thought to be pointless and irrelevant 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Stevo

[Stevo]

26 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

@bamaboy It was absolutely NOT intended that way.   Honestly meant as a compliment,  as was the size of the rider.   

That rider was not a beginner,  he has ridden skim for years,  he came to this event to try Surf style boards.  

Well bless your big heart. You are absolutely adorable. And definitely not passive aggressively wording your posts.

[RCorsa]

2 hours ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

M235's are mythical creatures that are not available to be ridden or seen by those that don't have a whipping boy to detail their triple later painted Ferraris.....

Lol.  I’m taking applications.  

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

Lol.  I’m taking applications.  

not gonna lie, I actually chuckled at this one.  Glad you have a thick skin and good sense of humor @RCorsa.  These guys can be pretty snarky (especially this deep into winter), but in my experience IRL most of 'em will give you the shirts off their backs too.

[Chrisjjbrown]

34 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

Lol.  I’m taking applications.  

Hahaha ... That was good