17 22MZX PORPOISE PROBLEM ANY IDEAS??

[85 Barefoot]

I wouldn't worry about the quality of the repair but that explanation seems extremely odd.  How in the world does the amount of fiberglass in transom contribute to porpoising when the wedge is not engaged?

[23LSVOwner]

Yea, that doesn't make any sense at all.

I could see adding glass to make a bit of a hook at the back but not having enough glass doesn't compute.

[mountaineerhill]

Yeah no way, that would be new boat territory for sure. 

[JasonK]

I can't believe malibu said that. Makes sense why some boats are worse than others.

[Slurpee]

35 minutes ago, bottlefedsi said:

So finally, we found out that the hull hasnt enough fiberglass on the transom of the boat which is causing the porpoising, according to Malibu.  They tell me they have to ship the boat back to TN, remove gel off the hull, put more glass on the area then re apply the gel to the hull once more.  I myself dont feel great about them "patching" my 120,000 dollar boat, am I crazy for feeling this way or should I not worry about the quality of this kind of repair?

Okay, I'm following this thread now after you wrote that.  I'd dearly love to know how they A) arrived at that conclusion; and B) how the fiberglass got laid down too lite to begin with.  I was prepared to hear that the hull warped after coming out of the mold too fast or something, but not that.

[bottlefedsi]

Ok, I think I explained it wrong.  Roy at Malibu said on the back of the boat there is a small hook like shape on the transom, that is supposed to help keep it flat at high speeds, well somehow this "hook" is not as large as it needs to be.  I dont like the "patch" idea either but how do you demand a new boat?

 

[UWSkier]

That's still odd.  The hook is a feature of the mold, into which the glass is laid.  Even if it was too thin, the hook should still be there unless the hull was removed before it was cured or something.  I've heard of hulls being modified to add hook to the back before, but that's typically to improve slalom wake, not make the boat stable...

Edited July 5, 2017 by UWSkier

[bbattiste247]

45 minutes ago, bottlefedsi said:

Ok, I think I explained it wrong.  Roy at Malibu said on the back of the boat there is a small hook like shape on the transom, that is supposed to help keep it flat at high speeds, well somehow this "hook" is not as large as it needs to be.  I dont like the "patch" idea either but how do you demand a new boat?

 

At least demand a loaner.

[bottlefedsi]

1 hour ago, bbattiste247 said:

At least demand a loaner.

Tommy's Florida is an awesome bunch of guys, they already told me I could have a loaner till mine came back, just worried about the quality of the repair and will it hurt me in resale value?

[Tims]

Strip gel and add glass on a new boat??  Wow. You are a brave man. The chances of something coming back messed up or damaged are high. Sounds like Malibu has a bad mold. 

 

[Bawshogg]

Good lord... this whole deal just sounds ludacrous to me.

I would think if this is a "hull" issue...I'm getting a new boat. I can't imagine having a issue as severe as this "sounds" and having a HUGE repair like that made. I ain't gonna be happy spending the kinda money these boats cost . 

RD essentially failed on this one . They can keep their "light in the a** glass tub" and pass it on to one of the engineers for testing. Build me a new boat that's "right" and if you can't ... full refund and move on. 

I undertsand issues arise , but a "repair" in this instance isn't warranted by my standards. A replacement boat is. How many other areas in that boat is the "glass" thin? 

You should thank your dealer... they are doing WAY too much a** covering on this one. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Bawshogg

[Bakes]

   Sounds like a design flaw they are patching?  First run Z3s had hulls that sucked and pissed a lot of people off when they found out why their boat did not perform like others Z3s.   

 

[NHolladay]

5 hours ago, bottlefedsi said:

Ok, I think I explained it wrong.  Roy at Malibu said on the back of the boat there is a small hook like shape on the transom, that is supposed to help keep it flat at high speeds, well somehow this "hook" is not as large as it needs to be.  I dont like the "patch" idea either but how do you demand a new boat?

 

Very easy.  You say if this is problem 1 and there is a known deficiency with how it was made what other issues do you not know about.  If they gave a lifetime of boat hull warranty and agreed in writing to replace with new at the next sign of an issue.  What about stress cracks later on?.  Certainly Malibu makess a bad boat every once in a while they are hand made.  But I do not feel you are out of line demanding them to stand behind their product.  New hull  for sure swap everything at factory.  Or just get a new boat and they call it a write off which they can do a lot easier than an individual.

[23LSVOwner]

13 hours ago, bottlefedsi said:

Ok, I think I explained it wrong.  Roy at Malibu said on the back of the boat there is a small hook like shape on the transom, that is supposed to help keep it flat at high speeds, well somehow this "hook" is not as large as it needs to be.  I dont like the "patch" idea either but how do you demand a new boat?

 

If Malibu is doing it I wouldn't be a patch, it's a repair. Adding a hook is a simple process that all manufacturers are well versed in doing.

11 hours ago, Tims said:

Strip gel and add glass on a new boat??  Wow. You are a brave man. The chances of something coming back messed up or damaged are high. Sounds like Malibu has a bad mold. 

 

See above. Chances of it coming back messed up or damaged are near nonexistent. This is a minor repair in the marine industry.

10 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

Good lord... this whole deal just sounds ludacrous to me.

I would think if this is a "hull" issue...I'm getting a new boat. I can't imagine having a issue as severe as this "sounds" and having a HUGE repair like that made. I ain't gonna be happy spending the kinda money these boats cost . 

RD essentially failed on this one . They can keep their "light in the a** glass tub" and pass it on to one of the engineers for testing. Build me a new boat that's "right" and if you can't ... full refund and move on. 

I undertsand issues arise , but a "repair" in this instance isn't warranted by my standards. A replacement boat is. How many other areas in that boat is the "glass" thin? 

You should thank your dealer... they are doing WAY too much a** covering on this one. 

Read earlier. "light" or "thin" glass is ludicrous. You need to see how a boat is built to see why this is.

8 hours ago, NHolladay said:

Very easy.  You say if this is problem 1 and there is a known deficiency with how it was made what other issues do you not know about.  If they gave a lifetime of boat hull warranty and agreed in writing to replace with new at the next sign of an issue.  What about stress cracks later on?.  Certainly Malibu makess a bad boat every once in a while they are hand made.  But I do not feel you are out of line demanding them to stand behind their product.  New hull  for sure swap everything at factory.  Or just get a new boat and they call it a write off which they can do a lot easier than an individual.

Been in the business for more years than I care to admit.

I suggest you refer to any manufacturers warranty policy. If this is what I suspect it is I bet money they will not even fathom offering a new hull. The manufacturer has an obligation to repair or replace at their discretion.

Trying to add a bit of reality to the situation.

[spikew919]

10 minutes ago, 23LSVOwner said:

I suggest you refer to any manufacturers warranty policy. If this is what I suspect it is I bet money they will not even fathom offering a new hull. The manufacturer has an obligation to repair or replace at their discretion.

Trying to add a bit of reality to the situation.

Although offering a new hull may not be ideal for manufacturer, but why not offer new hull and just repair that one and put on another boat? Seems like it would be a win win, Happy customers are repeat customers. And would be just plain good business. And not to mention the right thing to do in reality. 

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, spikew919 said:

Although offering a new hull may not be ideal for manufacturer, but why not offer new hull and just repair that one and put on another boat? Seems like it would be a win win, Happy customers are repeat customers. And would be just plain good business. And not to mention the right thing to do in reality. 

IN the customers mind the right thing to do is a new boat in even the most minor of situations.

It is a financial decision. It's how business works.

If you were a house builder and a house you built for a customer had an issue, would you build the customer a new house or repair the issue?

If your truck had an issue that was easily repairable would you expect the manufacturer to give you a new truck?

 

[spikew919]

Just now, 23LSVOwner said:

IN the customers mind the right thing to do is a new boat in even the most minor of situations.

It is a financial decision. It's how business works.

If you were a house builder and a house you built for a customer had an issue, would you build the customer a new house or repair the issue?

If your truck had an issue that was easily repairable would you expect the manufacturer to give you a new truck?

 

Did I  say a new boat? Pretty sure I said hull, but to answer your question, house no, and truck, hmmm, been down these roads. Yes within reason let them repair, In 98 and again in 2015, I had manufacturers of two different brands give me a new vehicle after so much time in shop. Last one was 2015 ram longhorn megacab and ram eat 27,000 miles and 4 bald tires. 

The marine industries issue is people are accepting to much shotty work. If more people would send them back to manufacturer then the quality going out would improve, the way it is now, the dealers take the arse chewing and have to bend over to try to make customer happy and on other side the manufacturer is paying them peanuts for warranty repairs, that usually take longer than manufacturers published repair time. Js 

[Falko]

Wow, this completely sounds like a bad mold or poor hull design. The factory is going to add a hook to the transom that probably wasn't in the mold cavity. If it is designed into the mold cavity I'd be worried about why that area wasn't filled properly from the factory, because it would almost be completely impossible not to fill it without having a large void between the gel and the matting, which would quickly lead to gel erosion.  This is a design issue from the factory. And while the factory "repair" may hold up over a long period of time, I wouldn't trust Bob the fiberglass guy to eye up the right amount of glass or or proper angle of the hook. Do they have a large jig to show them the proper profile when complete? I doubt it highly. This "repair" is a band-aid at best to cover a poor design or flaw in the mold build. OP, I am glad I am not in your shoes. 

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, spikew919 said:

Did I  say a new boat? Pretty sure I said hull, but to answer your question, house no, and truck, hmmm, been down these roads. Yes within reason let them repair, In 98 and again in 2015, I had manufacturers of two different brands give me a new vehicle after so much time in shop. Last one was 2015 ram longhorn megacab and ram eat 27,000 miles and 4 bald tires. 

The marine industries issue is people are accepting to much shotty work. If more people would send them back to manufacturer then the quality going out would improve, the way it is now, the dealers take the arse chewing and have to bend over to try to make customer happy and on other side the manufacturer is paying them peanuts for warranty repairs, that usually take longer than manufacturers published repair time. Js 

A new hull is an even larger job than adding hook, and has it's own possible issues.

 

[23LSVOwner]

Just now, Falko said:

Wow, this completely sounds like a bad mold or poor hull design. The factory is going to add a hook to the transom that probably wasn't in the mold cavity. If it is designed into the mold cavity I'd be worried about why that area wasn't filled properly from the factory, because it would almost be completely impossible not to fill it without having a large void between the gel and the matting, which would quickly lead to gel erosion.  This is a design issue from the factory. And while the factory "repair" may hold up over a long period of time, I wouldn't trust Bob the fiberglass guy to eye up the right amount of glass or or proper angle of the hook. Do they have a large jig to show them the proper profile when complete? I doubt it highly. This "repair" is a band-aid at best to cover a poor design or flaw in the mold build. OP, I am glad I am not in your shoes. 

If it was a bad hull design there would be tons of people on here complaining about it. I would say it is a mold issue.

If you have ever seen a boat built you would understand why the second statement makes no sense.

 

On the 3rd statement, like I said earlier. This is something that is done industry wide. "Bob" the fiberglass guy knows exactly how to do it.

 

[Chaabo]

Wow what a story. I feel your pain!!!

I personally wouldn't accept ANY fiberglass repair on a NEW boat, even if it's done by the factory.

Back in 2005 we had a serious issue with a brand new Response. Only thing I am willing to say here publicly is - Malibu eventually reacted reasonably and issue was solved to our full satisfaction.

PM me if you want more info.

(You might be able to find my old thread on that topic here on TMC about it. Search key words would be "response" & "gel coat cracks".)

*edit* Just did a search for that old thread and I wasn't able to find it. Think I asked wakegirl to delete it after the issue was solved. Was even maybe part of the whole deal - I seriously can't remember 12 years later. Social media has been very powerful even back then.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Chaabo

[Falko]

I've seen many a boat built. Maybe I'm not explaining what I mean correctly. The gel is sprayed into the mold. The inside of the gel is then either hit with a light spray of chop, or light layer of random weave to prevent print through. The glass is then laid up, usually by hand. At this point, the outside of the boat is completely defined by the mold. That is why I am saying it is almost impossibly to not have the outside of the boat fit the design of the mold. I've seen cases where the mat is not pushed down to the gel in certain areas like corners and a void exists. But when this occurs there is really no backing on the gel and gel is not structural and will break away.  But I've never seen that occur over an entire corner structure like a length of a transom, so I doubt that is the issue here. I truly believe it is a mold issue.

You have much more faith in Bob than I hold. I'm glad you feel the repair is basic and will be done correctly. My thought on this is the repair should not even be necessary. If I bought a luxury car and it came in with the plastic nose overheated and deformed in the molding process, I sure as hell wouldn't accept a bondo repair with a quick sand and spray. And while that is somewhat different due to materials of construction, it is very much the same.

[bamabonners]

Sounds like qc failed....  Either in the mold prep, after the hull popped out if the mold, or during the test drive.  It may be a routine repair in the industry, but it still looks bad in the eyes of the customer.   It just doesn't give you a good warm feeling for your new boat and it doesn't look good for Malibu qc.

Edited July 6, 2017 by bamabonners

[85 Barefoot]

51 minutes ago, Chaabo said:

Wow what a story. I feel your pain!!!

I personally wouldn't accept ANY fiberglass repair on a NEW boat, even if it's done by the factory.

Back in 2005 we had a serious issue with a brand new Response. Only thing I am willing to say here publicly is - Malibu eventually reacted reasonably and issue was solved to our full satisfaction.

PM me if you want more info.

(You might be able to find my old thread on that topic here on TMC about it. Search key words would be "response" & "gel coat cracks".)

*edit* Just did a search for that old thread and I wasn't able to find it. Think I asked wakegirl to delete it after the issue was solved. Was even maybe part of the whole deal - I seriously can't remember 12 years later. Social media has been very powerful even back then.

But for what its worth to OP, our ski club bought Chaabo's old boat, used it for 10 years and hundreds upon hundreds of hours, and only sold last year, and could never find a single thing that was ever repaired and it performed flawlessly.  So, I fully trust a factory repair.

[85 Barefoot]

Look I'm not the one who bought a $120,000 boat with this issue, but I have seen unbelievable glass work.  I saw a boat totally crushed from bow to transom in a bad storm.  Two week old boat too.  Local glass guy repaired and you could never tell (even now) which side was repaired.  I think glasswork looks and sounds scarier than what it is.

 

EDIT: but this solution still seems odd.

Edited July 6, 2017 by 85 Barefoot