2018 New Models/Updates

[MaliWop]

11 hours ago, 95echelon said:

 

14 - speaking of gunwale space if Dodge Ram can put storage there why can't Malibu?

Ask and you shall receive. Only it's not a Malibu...... Centurion released the Fi23 this morning. It has this option.

[MXZrider]

So here we go, I think on this pic we see maybe a new option! It's Jeff Langley's (Malibu Boats team rider) new Boat. 

https://www.facebook.com/jefferson.langley.35/posts/10103093670491563:0

[SJ]

On 7/11/2017 at 8:40 PM, Raffit78 said:

I mean for a toy that costs $120,000.00  I don't think your requests are out of this world.  Except the potato chips which engineers would never be able to solve. 

 

Hell, for less then that, Tesla drives you anywhere you want, with no gas consumption. 

 

IMO, by all standards, there is no way these things should cost remotely close to 100K and the 200k they are approaching is absolutely absurd.  I'm not saying the top tow boats equate to a Geo Metro, but to be in the same realm as Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo's is nuts.  There are no crash regulations to meet that wreck hundreds of test models, no fuel economy regulations, no emissions, no factory race team that costs a bazillion dollars to support. No market specific regulations (steering wheel on left, lights, emissions, etc.) Basically just minor upgrades in finish's, gadgets and conveniences year to year.  A hull tweak here and there.  A 5-10k motor in a refined bath tub with some fancy touch screens, foam and vinyl and related controls.  The only game changer in the last 15 years has been surf automation, but lets face it - the materials, programming and r&d on that is a drop in the bucket compared to the auto industry and by no means adds 30-40k in material value to a boat.  95echelon highlights the lack of innovation in this industry.  The last few years have proven that high end tow boats are inelastic - price has very little effect on demand, which is consistent with luxury items, but still...  I digress.  I wish a Tesla-ish startup would crank out something to embarrass/challange the status quo, remove the ~50-100% dealer markup and figure out the logistics to sell/maintain direct.

Edited July 18, 2017 by SJ
words

[bamabonners]

We bought an inflator for 20 bucks... plugs into cigarette lighter on the boat.  

Malibu would probably charge $1k if it came from the factory.

If malibu is listening, i prefer the thicker cut chip with sea salt!!

Edited July 18, 2017 by bamabonners

[85 Barefoot]

8 hours ago, SJ said:

 

IMO, by all standards, there is no way these things should cost remotely close to 100K and the 200k they are approaching is absolutely absurd.  I'm not saying the top tow boats equate to a Geo Metro, but to be in the same realm as Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo's is nuts.  There are no crash regulations to meet that wreck hundreds of test models, no fuel economy regulations, no emissions, no factory race team that costs a bazillion dollars to support. No market specific regulations (steering wheel on left, lights, emissions, etc.) Basically just minor upgrades in finish's, gadgets and conveniences year to year.  A hull tweak here and there.  A 5-10k motor in a refined bath tub with some fancy touch screens, foam and vinyl and related controls.  The only game changer in the last 15 years has been surf automation, but lets face it - the materials, programming and r&d on that is a drop in the bucket compared to the auto industry and by no means adds 30-40k in material value to a boat.  95echelon highlights the lack of innovation in this industry.  The last few years have proven that high end tow boats are inelastic - price has very little effect on demand, which is consistent with luxury items, but still...  I digress.  I wish a Tesla-ish startup would crank out something to embarrass/challange the status quo, remove the ~50-100% dealer markup and figure out the logistics to sell/maintain direct.

First, there is not near that much markup.  Second, the per unit profit in the wakeboat industry (of the manufacturer) is astonishingly low.  The prices are here to stay.  They are amazingly expensive to produce but I generally agree, its a fiberglass tub with an engine.  Frankly, I'm surprised they don't cost more.  I mean look at center consoles with decent power.  They are far "simpler" boats both in features and construction yet you can easily spend more per foot in that realm than in a wakeboat.

Edited July 18, 2017 by 85 Barefoot

[boardjnky4]

Real life dealer markup is probably around 30% on Malibu. Slightly less on Axis. Remember that Malibu needs to turn a profit as well. So if (for example) a 23LSV sells for $120k, you can assume that dealer cost is around $90k. Then Malibu needs to have a profit margin, so maybe Malibu's break-even is $60k.

Remember, Malibu has the expenses of the factory, all of the labor force, health insurance for their employees, warranty work, marketing materials, sponsorships, competitions, etc... Oh and don't forget that the parts they buy from other companies (engines, PTM towers, all accessories and hardware) where profits need to be made. Indmar doesn't sell engines to Malibu at cost, they need to turn a profit too. And they bare all of the same expenses as Malbu (running a plant, r&d, marketing, sales, etc..).

Dealers also have a lot of expenses similar to above.

Neither side sells volumes like a car dealership, so again the comparison with car dealerships is moot.

Edited July 18, 2017 by boardjnky4

[Fffrank]

8 hours ago, SJ said:

 

IMO, by all standards, there is no way these things should cost remotely close to 100K and the 200k they are approaching is absolutely absurd.  I'm not saying the top tow boats equate to a Geo Metro, but to be in the same realm as Porsche, Ferrari, and Lambo's is nuts.  There are no crash regulations to meet that wreck hundreds of test models, no fuel economy regulations, no emissions, no factory race team that costs a bazillion dollars to support. No market specific regulations (steering wheel on left, lights, emissions, etc.) Basically just minor upgrades in finish's, gadgets and conveniences year to year.  A hull tweak here and there.  A 5-10k motor in a refined bath tub with some fancy touch screens, foam and vinyl and related controls.  The only game changer in the last 15 years has been surf automation, but lets face it - the materials, programming and r&d on that is a drop in the bucket compared to the auto industry and by no means adds 30-40k in material value to a boat.  95echelon highlights the lack of innovation in this industry.  The last few years have proven that high end tow boats are inelastic - price has very little effect on demand, which is consistent with luxury items, but still...  I digress.  I wish a Tesla-ish startup would crank out something to embarrass/challange the status quo, remove the ~50-100% dealer markup and figure out the logistics to sell/maintain direct.

It's economy of scale and automation in the build.  You're 100% correct that there is nowhere near the R&D costs involved in the creation of a towboat but you're forgetting that they are basically hand built.  Cars are comparatively cheap because they are built en masse.  Porsche sold 60k units in the US alone last year.  If you can build a market that size for towboats, you'll be able to set up an automated factory and get the costs WAY down.  And burn a container-ship load of money in the process.  

[85 Barefoot]

18 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

Real life dealer markup is probably around 30% on Malibu. Slightly less on Axis. Remember that Malibu needs to turn a profit as well. So if (for example) a 23LSV sells for $120k, you can assume that dealer cost is around $90k. Then Malibu needs to have a profit margin, so maybe Malibu's break-even is $60k.

Remember, Malibu has the expenses of the factory, all of the labor force, health insurance for their employees, warranty work, marketing materials, sponsorships, competitions, etc... Oh and don't forget that the parts they buy from other companies (engines, PTM towers, all accessories and hardware) where profits need to be made. Indmar doesn't sell engines to Malibu at cost, they need to turn a profit too. And they bare all of the same expenses as Malbu (running a plant, r&d, marketing, sales, etc..).

Dealers also have a lot of expenses similar to above.

Neither side sells volumes like a car dealership, so again the comparison with car dealerships is moot.

Your numbers are very stretched for the majority of deals, in my opinion.  

As to Malibu profits, in 2016, the net income per boat was barely more than $5,000....think about that.  I'm not saying you disgaree with this, but for others who think there's about to be a price changeup once any bubble (if there is one) bursts, are mistaken.  There is nowhere for prices to go.  Only thing that will change is volume.  These things are expensive to make.  With the average gross sales price of just over $70,000, gross profit is only $18,700 per boat...meaning it costs more than $50,000 to build the average boat, not even taking the numerous ancillary business expenses into account.

Edited July 18, 2017 by 85 Barefoot

[UWSkier]

On 7/10/2017 at 3:38 PM, bamaboy said:

I have started playing with the combination of NCRS and NSS on the G.

 

NSS is the plate that slides out like SG.  It can be adjusted while riding with the pebble watch.  0 is all the way out and 5 is all the way in.  I actually like it at a setting of 2.  

 

NCRS is the big trim tab in the middle.  Again it can be adjusted 0 to 5.  0 is a right angle with the hull and flattens out the wave.  5 is level with the hull and steepens the wave.  I like it at 3

 

There is definitely an analogy here with SG.  They are similar systems.  The ability to adjust is at least worth a look and might be cool.  @The Hulk might be a bit cooky but he's got some great ideas.

Pebble is out of business and has closed up the support shop.  Wonder what Nautique is going to do for all the users whose Pebbles stop working...

[bamaboy]

15 minutes ago, UWSkier said:

Pebble is out of business and has closed up the support shop.  Wonder what Nautique is going to do for all the users whose Pebbles stop working...

They most certainly are out of business.  If you have a problem with the device itself, you are SOL. If you have a problem with the Nautique side of the equation (LINC screen, etc) you are covered under warranty.  

Mine works perfectly so I haven't had any concerns and you can find Pebbles on ebay by the thousands for dirt cheap.  So if it takes a dump, I will just buy a new one for 20 bucks.  

 

A bigger concern is a long term solution and whether it will be retrofitted (which I doubt)

[kerpluxal]

On 7/10/2017 at 8:48 AM, The Hulk said:

yes dont you know our water is different? ha.

no my waver is killer, long/tall.. easy to adjust...i love it.

my wrong: i assumed the SG's were same size "seemed like it" but i didnt measure, or perhaps they were on the old ones for the 22mx/23lsv that i was around etc.

 when i hit the SG to change sides you can watch the wave start to change there is a split second i see the wave do something that would be nice for getting more pop closer to boat "less deflection" which makes me believe at least that adjustments might work. i'm thinking like the furthest 25% range within that range would be nice... but again quick adjustability would be desired because you alwasy need adjustments depending on weight/ppl in boat, ballast, wedge, speed, wind conditions, chop etc. 

your probably right in that too many options may confuse normal people but i'm an "options guy" and "not normal" ha ... so while i dont use half the options on most things i buy i like to have them.

also most aftermarket devices do not operate exactly like SG. like the Surf Assist and things are not 90 deg vertical deflection so they are listing the boat, Nautiques is more of a side-style emergency break. SG has the longest fin/style deflection so i think it would make the biggest noticeable difference on malibu compared to the others. 

 

Hmm.. big miss conception that go surf assist only "list" the boat. There is a lot more going on under than than a simple list. There is a lot of hydro dynamics going on with it. The rear section of tab redirects the water and causes the convergence hydraulically. 

Then back on adjustability.. have you surfed other brands where this made a noticeable difference? I have. The 4 that I surfed the owners set up the boat the same way all the time and do not play with the settings. Of the four, one will change his setting only when he has a crew of 6 or more (because the change will only enhance with that much weight). 

I have the gosurfassist and it is set an leave alone. My tabs are adjustable at the ends also. It was advised not to mess with them, if I do I could possibly never get it back into adjustment for producing the best wave (Yes I could by taking measurements, but why go through the hassle after the designer states that it is at the best angle already). 

IMHO Malibu boats have better adjustablity than the other systems with the wedge. I have 3 different waves that I use (skim, wakesurf, and longboard) and simply adjust wedge for each of them. As a rider I can tell when my driver messes with setting by 1 click.

I change wedge/speed settings for my other riders skill levels, where as other manufactures the owners do nothing (minus play with weight). but use the preset and stick with it.

On 7/10/2017 at 0:29 PM, Cole2001 said:

If they made the adjustable surfgate similar to the GSA it could be decent. Have it automatically go out to that setting it's always at and then have a dial to fine tune it in. 

That is not how it works. If you set the dial half way, the tab deploys,,, well,, half way... if you switch sides and the dial is set at half way, then it deploys half way down on the other tab. It never deploys fully down then use dial to adjust. It deploys to where the dial is adjusted too.

[IXFE]

Wasn't there a thread once that went into great detail about exactly how much Malibu makes per boat (i.e. not as much as you'd think). Didn't that thread also prove that as fast as Malibu's prices are increasing, so too are their costs??

I wonder what happened to that thread. I think it should be required reading for all newbies who want to pop off about how their Malibu should be cheaper than their F150 cuz the Bu doesn't have anti lock breaks, or whatever. 

oh that's right, Photobucket killed that thread 

bottom line, please don't compare boats and cars...  it only reveals your inexperience in this industry.  just cuz they both have steering wheels and are both sold at a dealership doesn't make them good comps. Might as well compare jewelry to fidget spinners... I mean, they're both small, right?

[boardjnky4]

4 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Your numbers are very stretched for the majority of deals, in my opinion.  

As to Malibu profits, in 2016, the net income per boat was barely more than $5,000....think about that.  I'm not saying you disgaree with this, but for others who think there's about to be a price changeup once any bubble (if there is one) bursts, are mistaken.  There is nowhere for prices to go.  Only thing that will change is volume.  These things are expensive to make.  With the average gross sales price of just over $70,000, gross profit is only $18,700 per boat...meaning it costs more than $50,000 to build the average boat, not even taking the numerous ancillary business expenses into account.

Well, I was just providing examples for the most part. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are. Really just illustrating where the money goes and how much goes into running this operation.

We're on the same page, though. Nobody is getting filthy rich off these operations. Not C-levels, not shareholders, not dealers. A lot of people live comfortable lives and reap the rewards of success, but it's nothing extravagant.

Edited July 18, 2017 by boardjnky4

[AJwakedevil]

30 minutes ago, IXFE said:

...I wonder what happened to that thread....

What happened to this thread? Is there no new info at all therefore off topic is new topic?

Makes it hard to see what new stuff yall have discovered when I have to read through a page or two of B*tching about prices of boats.

(Not directed at you IXFE. you just had a nice intro into my thought)

[bamabonners]

1 hour ago, IXFE said:

Wasn't there a thread once that went into great detail about exactly how much Malibu makes per boat (i.e. not as much as you'd think). Didn't that thread also prove that as fast as Malibu's prices are increasing, so too are their costs??

I wonder what happened to that thread. I think it should be required reading for all newbies who want to pop off about how their Malibu should be cheaper than their F150 cuz the Bu doesn't have anti lock breaks, or whatever. 

oh that's right, Photobucket killed that thread 

bottom line, please don't compare boats and cars...  it only reveals your inexperience in this industry.  just cuz they both have steering wheels and are both sold at a dealership doesn't make them good comps. Might as well compare jewelry to fidget spinners... I mean, they're both small, right?

I don't think its just newbies popping off...  I have seen more talk lately on many forums about the prices of boats than I have in recent years.  I think that the ceiling is coming quickly on prices...simply because, whether correct or not, many people look at boats like they do RV and cars.  If people don't see the value or return in spending 125k on a boat that seems like nothing more than a fiberglass tub with a motor and loud stereo, then they won't do it.  As of now, I haven't seen any boat makers trying to educate the customer to think any different.

One way that I think would help the consumer is to stop with penalizing the consumer for not living near larger markets with better dealers.  Right now, territories are protected.  This keeps the consumer from being able to shop around (yes there are some exceptions, but it holds true for the most part).  This also keeps pricing very regional.  This isn't the case with car dealers...I used to go across the state line to TN and buy a car for thousands cheaper.  Local dealers were losing business so they adjusted their prices to keep the purchase local.  I don't see how this change in philosophy would hurt Malibu.  In fact, I think the added competition would benefit the consumer and the dealers with better reputations.  Just my opinion, which isn't very educated.  I'm in IT, not boat manufacturing.

Of course, this same argument is made every summer when new boats and price increases are announced.  

Any more pics out lately?  I'm interested to see if anything on the VTX is changing for 2018....

Edited July 18, 2017 by bamabonners

[UWSkier]

3 hours ago, bamaboy said:

They most certainly are out of business.  If you have a problem with the device itself, you are SOL. If you have a problem with the Nautique side of the equation (LINC screen, etc) you are covered under warranty.  

Mine works perfectly so I haven't had any concerns and you can find Pebbles on ebay by the thousands for dirt cheap.  So if it takes a dump, I will just buy a new one for 20 bucks.  

 

A bigger concern is a long term solution and whether it will be retrofitted (which I doubt)

Yeah, the retrofit is more what I was getting at.  I'd think the app would be a simple port to an Android watch.  Is it like any other Pebble app that requires it to go via a phone, or does the watch somehow communicate directly with the boat without needing a phone?

[85 Barefoot]

3 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

Well, I was just providing examples for the most part. I'm not sure what the exact numbers are. Really just illustrating where the money goes and how much goes into running this operation.

We're on the same page, though. Nobody is getting filthy rich off these operations. Not C-levels, not shareholders, not dealers. A lot of people live comfortable lives and reap the rewards of success, but it's nothing extravagant.

I hear u, and I'm not saying this to be contrarian, but Bob Alkema has to be living pretty extravagantly, haha

[85 Barefoot]

2 hours ago, bamabonners said:

I don't think its just newbies popping off...  I have seen more talk lately on many forums about the prices of boats than I have in recent years.  I think that the ceiling is coming quickly on prices...simply because, whether correct or not, many people look at boats like they do RV and cars.  If people don't see the value or return in spending 125k on a boat that seems like nothing more than a fiberglass tub with a motor and loud stereo, then they won't do it.  As of now, I haven't seen any boat makers trying to educate the customer to think any different.

One way that I think would help the consumer is to stop with penalizing the consumer for not living near larger markets with better dealers.  Right now, territories are protected.  This keeps the consumer from being able to shop around (yes there are some exceptions, but it holds true for the most part).  This also keeps pricing very regional.  This isn't the case with car dealers...I used to go across the state line to TN and buy a car for thousands cheaper.  Local dealers were losing business so they adjusted their prices to keep the purchase local.  I don't see how this change in philosophy would hurt Malibu.  In fact, I think the added competition would benefit the consumer and the dealers with better reputations.  Just my opinion, which isn't very educated.  I'm in IT, not boat manufacturing.

Of course, this same argument is made every summer when new boats and price increases are announced.  

Any more pics out lately?  I'm interested to see if anything on the VTX is changing for 2018....

large market does not = better dealer.  Furthermore, as is the case in the manufacturing of these boats, the dealer model has to be totally different than cars.  Why would Malibu's dealer network EVER grow if big cities just become Costco malibu dealers?  But to stay on track, I won't elaborate.

[hethj7]

I have pricing thougts but we need a new thread for that.  

I tried to click on that Langley post this morning and it said it was deleted.   What did it show?

[DarkSide]

 

41 minutes ago, ConnollyCrew said:

 Looks like a new model to me

Maybe the lsv will stay for sale, that looks really nice!

[bamabonners]

3 hours ago, 85 Barefoot said:

large market does not = better dealer.  Furthermore, as is the case in the manufacturing of these boats, the dealer model has to be totally different than cars.  Why would Malibu's dealer network EVER grow if big cities just become Costco malibu dealers?  But to stay on track, I won't elaborate.

That shows my point, it really doesn't matter to malibu....as long as the number of units sold stays up, who cares if it is through 10 or 50 dealers?  Plus, I'm guessing that Malibu offers larger incentives to dealers that have larger volumes... so, this would seem to favor larger dealers.  Smaller dealers won't get the same price, so they don't mark down the boat as much...IF they want to make the same amount of profit.    Say you are joe customer and your territory is covered by a smaller dealer that had to pay more for the boat from Malibu...would you get the same deal as the customer dealing with the larger volume dealer?  Probably not.  

I'm not an insider or anything, just guessing and going off of some dealer talk I've heard through the years....

Edited July 19, 2017 by bamabonners

[boardjnky4]

23LSV looking dope

[Anderson24]

50 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

23LSV looking dope

DOPE. 

I don't know why...but I really dig that charcoal with single accent color look.

 

[ConnollyCrew]

8 hours ago, DarkSide said:

 

Maybe the lsv will stay for sale, that looks really nice!

It will have to grow on me.... I am not a fan at this point. That tower....??

[23LSVOwner]

8 hours ago, boardjnky4 said:

23LSV looking dope

That burgundy color is SWEET!