2018 New Models/Updates

[67King]

6 hours ago, Raffit78 said:

What's your beef with that motor?   I haven't heard many negative reviews and it seems like they wiped out the wakeboat industry from GM.  

 

I've read tons of complaints, but they were all about transmission noise, though incorrectly attributed to the engine.  It is a superior design, especially for this application, but most folks don't get why (ref. the post about Malibu engineers watching this thread and laughing).

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, 67King said:

I've read tons of complaints, but they were all about transmission noise, though incorrectly attributed to the engine.  It is a superior design, especially for this application, but most folks don't get why (ref. the post about Malibu engineers watching this thread and laughing).

I respectfully disagree. There has been exhaust temp issues, miss fire issues and I don't buy the transmission noise. The in boat exhaust noise is much louder. It's a strong engine but so are the new DI GM engines which are performing at a very very high level in the Nautiques.

[ConnollyCrew]

10 hours ago, Cory said:

Also, I'm on the record many times that I wouldn't purchase another Malibu so long as they are offered with that Ford Raptor engine.  Seems to me they like my "advice." 

Love my Raptor.... dominates watersports... sounds like you have had problems??

[NAW]

2 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

The regular wave is much improved on the new mxz hulls and m235. I suspect the new 23lsv, t22 and a24 will follow that trend. I suspect there is still a 4th boat going to be released yet. Have you guys above surfed any of the new hulls?

 

This deserves to be highlighted.

If you go surf one of these new boats regular wave and think you need more adjustibility in order to do all of your tricks, chances are, it's not the wave.

[KJKimball]

7 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

I respectfully disagree. There has been exhaust temp issues, miss fire issues and I don't buy the transmission noise. The in boat exhaust noise is much louder. It's a strong engine but so are the new DI GM engines which are performing at a very very high level in the Nautiques.

It can be difficult to get apple to apple comparisons to isolate the things that are only attributed to the brand/model of engine used.  Comparing the sound levels a older GM 1.46 gear LSV to a 2016 ford 1.76 doesn't truly compare the sound levels of the engines.  It really compares how good a job the newer boat is doing on noise containment.  The boats are build differently as designs changes year to year, carpet in compartments vs rubber, different seating, etc.  Comparing engine noise only has to be the same boat, same gear.  Another way to compare engine noise levels is to move an engine from one brand of boat to another.  I have a friend who runs a wakeboard school in Orlando.  Last year, he used a 2016 24MXZ with Indmar 460 engine/1.76 gear.  This year, he changed boats to a 2017 SA450 with the exact same 460 engine/1.76 trans, muffler, etc. removed from the 24MXZ and installed in the SA450.  The noise levels dropped dramatically in the SA compared to what it was in the MXZ.  The engine and trans still make whatever noise they make but the SA does a better job of damping the sounds than the MXZ did.  I have been in both boats with him and was blown away at the SA reduction in sound level. Using a 1.76 allows the engine to turn up more than with a 1.46 gear.  That will increase sound levels too.  The 1.76 gears themselves will make more noise than 1.46 adding sounds that a boater isn't used to hearing.  In some cases, different sounds are thought to be louder when in fact, they aren't louder, just different than what someone was used to hearing.  

[ahopkins22LSV]

1 hour ago, KJKimball said:

It can be difficult to get apple to apple comparisons to isolate the things that are only attributed to the brand/model of engine used.  Comparing the sound levels a older GM 1.46 gear LSV to a 2016 ford 1.76 doesn't truly compare the sound levels of the engines.  It really compares how good a job the newer boat is doing on noise containment.  The boats are build differently as designs changes year to year, carpet in compartments vs rubber, different seating, etc.  Comparing engine noise only has to be the same boat, same gear.  Another way to compare engine noise levels is to move an engine from one brand of boat to another.  I have a friend who runs a wakeboard school in Orlando.  Last year, he used a 2016 24MXZ with Indmar 460 engine/1.76 gear.  This year, he changed boats to a 2017 SA450 with the exact same 460 engine/1.76 trans, muffler, etc. removed from the 24MXZ and installed in the SA450.  The noise levels dropped dramatically in the SA compared to what it was in the MXZ.  The engine and trans still make whatever noise they make but the SA does a better job of damping the sounds than the MXZ did.  I have been in both boats with him and was blown away at the SA reduction in sound level. Using a 1.76 allows the engine to turn up more than with a 1.46 gear.  That will increase sound levels too.  The 1.76 gears themselves will make more noise than 1.46 adding sounds that a boater isn't used to hearing.  In some cases, different sounds are thought to be louder when in fact, they aren't louder, just different than what someone was used to hearing.  

I understand that. But I'm not comparing between brands. And I understand the gear reduction. But the rpms have been comparable between the gm engine Malibu's I have been in and the ford engine Malibu's. Maybe it is just a different sound and I'm wrong but the raptor engine exhaust routes towards the cabin instead of straight back like the GM engines did so I feel like that is a fair theory. I also haven't done a true test on this just a gut feel between the multiple 16&17's I have been in with the Raptor engine. I will say the 17's seem quieter so maybe they added additional insulation. Or I'm loosing my hearing.

[NWBU]

2 hours ago, NAW said:

This deserves to be highlighted.

If you go surf one of these new boats regular wave and think you need more adjustibility in order to do all of your tricks, chances are, it's not the wave.

They're getting better, and I've been on and behind the new boats, but it's still not comparable to the competition. It takes a decent list to shape the regular wave on the new MXZs, and that's coming from the local dealer, not just my preferences. All their demos on the regular side run partially listed.

I'll be the first to admit the wave is not the issue with my tricks, or lack thereof, but it sure doesn't get me as excited as I know a wave can. Or I just need to learn to ride goofy this summer.

Edited July 7, 2017 by NWBU

[NWBU]

8 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

The adjustability of surfgate would only be good for someone who actually knows how to set it up properly and use it. The people who want a idiot proof wave will favour from the current system. 

Look at Tige's taps 3 system for example, there are some amazing waves coming out of them and also some crappy ones too.

Agree, adding too much adjustability just screws it up for the average user so it would need to be a factory setting. The Ri's are having the same issues with folks not knowing how to dial them in, and part of the beauty of surfgate is the one button selection.

[UWSkier]

4 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

 

@UWSkier no changes to the TXi that I know so they are minor if any. They just released a brand new boat what more do you want?

 

They make small tweaks all the time.  For instance:

2003 Response LXi.  People didn't care for the low seating position or the idle flair going in and out of neutral.  Both fixed for '04.

2012 SN 200, the MOADD.  People didn't like how many RPM it turned and its terrible fuel economy so it was repropped from the factory in subsequent years.

Not looking for anything major, but I'd expect some changes.  Maybe they recess the hinges and gas cap further to prevent the rope from hanging up.  Maybe they strengthen the rear hatch doors and add some drains to the basins.  Maybe they give it more rudder torque from the factory.

[jpwaverider]

I'm scared of the new 23LSV features and upgrades $$$$$$$$,  cause the 2017 MXZ pricing went through the roof after the new changes. I hope Malibu realizes that the 23 LSV is still somewhat affordable for a nicely equipped boat and keeps it that way. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

9 minutes ago, jpwaverider said:

I'm scared of the new 23LSV features and upgrades $$$$$$$$,  cause the 2017 MXZ pricing went through the roof after the new changes. I hope Malibu realizes that the 23 LSV is still somewhat affordable for a nicely equipped boat and keeps it that way. 

So buy a leftover 17 LSV. Would be a great time to get a deal.

Although, I think it was said here already that the increase for the 23 is less then previous years. That might just be the early Friday afternoon beer talking though.

Edited July 7, 2017 by ahopkinsTXi

[IXFE]

23 minutes ago, jpwaverider said:

I'm scared of the new 23LSV features and upgrades $$$$$$$$,  cause the 2017 MXZ pricing went through the roof after the new changes. I hope Malibu realizes that the 23 LSV is still somewhat affordable for a nicely equipped boat and keeps it that way. 

I don't think we'll see a massive spike in pricing, but you can find out for yourself by stepping into your local Malibu dealer and putting together a 2018 build. 

[gahvey]

29 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

That might just be the early Friday afternoon beer talking though.

mmmmmmm- BEER!!!!

[Slurpee]

6 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

I understand that. But I'm not comparing between brands. And I understand the gear reduction. But the rpms have been comparable between the gm engine Malibu's I have been in and the ford engine Malibu's. Maybe it is just a different sound and I'm wrong but the raptor engine exhaust routes towards the cabin instead of straight back like the GM engines did so I feel like that is a fair theory. I also haven't done a true test on this just a gut feel between the multiple 16&17's I have been in with the Raptor engine. I will say the 17's seem quieter so maybe they added additional insulation. Or I'm loosing my hearing.

The 17's are quieter (at least the 23LSV - Ronnie's - that I compared back to back '16 to '17 is).  Thicker boards on the backs of the upholstery at the back of the boat.  Mass =  Sound Absorption.  The hatches are a bit thicker as well I think.  About the same results as all the mass loaded vinyl I hung around my '16 engine this spring.  The most annoying sound isn't exhaust, but the propeller pulsing water against the hull of the boat at the closest point of the blade passing the hull.  Get up around 30mph+ and that's what I'm really noticing.  Not sure anything but a much thicker fiberglass hull and a redesign of the stringer system would address that.  That's what I'd like to see in '18.  

Edited July 7, 2017 by Slurpee

[jpwaverider]

51 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I don't think we'll see a massive spike in pricing, but you can find out for yourself by stepping into your local Malibu dealer and putting together a 2018 build. 

That's the plan, I'll wait till October, figure I'll have a better chance on negotiating. 

[ConnollyCrew]

The base price will go up approx 3500, you will also have a few more options that will run the price up also. Rear View Seat(2k) and many will order the 450 due to the heavier hull imho. From what I understand most 18 23's will be 7-10k more than 17's

Edited July 7, 2017 by ConnollyCrew

[ConnollyCrew]

2 hours ago, jpwaverider said:

I'm scared of the new 23LSV features and upgrades $$$$$$$$,  cause the 2017 MXZ pricing went through the roof after the new changes. I hope Malibu realizes that the 23 LSV is still somewhat affordable for a nicely equipped boat and keeps it that way. 

I know a guy selling a pimped out one.........and its affordable...

Edited July 7, 2017 by ConnollyCrew

[67King]

16 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

I respectfully disagree. There has been exhaust temp issues, miss fire issues and I don't buy the transmission noise. The in boat exhaust noise is much louder. It's a strong engine but so are the new DI GM engines which are performing at a very very high level in the Nautiques.

I'm not trying to be a d***, here.  But "whine" is gear noise.  Just like it was when you described the noise a year ago (or was it two? sheesh time flies) as a whine.  You don't have to buy it, but it really is the case.

New DI engines are by all means solid.  It is an incredible technology, and I was fighting back in 2007 for Ford to put it on the new 5.0L (Coyote), but lost that battle.  But at the end of the day, the base engine architecture is still inferior.  The pushrods are a huge source of inefficiency, but as I've harped on repeatedly, it is the inability to get a pent roof chamber from the inline valve layout that is the biggest weakness of the engine.

 

 

[The Hulk]

ok i have to say it: Anyone thinking that SG shouldn't have adjustability for $100k+ is just making excuses. Ok yes some may not need to use it but its a simple programming fix and probably costs $50 or less. 

1. you should be able to adjust it and make it a setting for each saved program/riders preference (same as wedge)

2. the dash should feature quick adjustment near volume knob similar to wedge/surf left/right etc.

3. the 25 lsv NEEDs this to change up rider style surf far back, surf closer with more pop etc. it will make a difference. more so on smaller boats because SG is same size on smaller boats 

I haven't had hardly any time to go look but does anyone know if the lenco trim tab switch will work with the "OEM" style actuators they make for malibu? if so its an easy fix, buy one of these and wire "AFTER maliview" between maliview and actuators and plop the adjustable button on the dash somewhere. someone on here has to have more time than me to try this out! ha.

there is no such thing as too many options when spending this kind of money, anyone saying so is making excuses because they secretively want it but dont want to admit they spent that much and dont have a simple option "MANY" other brands and after market devices DO.

 

seems like this could be an easy install: SG activates on right side and you wire it so you can only adjust right side and vise versa. in fact i think this would be handy because you get a visual LED light showing % deflection for quick reference instead of via dash. As long as the actuators are the same as the other lenco ones i dont see why this cant be done, Maliview is jsut sending signal for 100% extension. add this thing between the two. the older SG with standard lencos it would def work.. the newer lencos i think 2014 and newer (bigger ones) thats the question?

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by The Hulk

[ahopkins22LSV]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:13 PM, 67King said:

I'm not trying to be a d***, here.  But "whine" is gear noise.  Just like it was when you described the noise a year ago (or was it two? sheesh time flies) as a whine.  You don't have to buy it, but it really is the case.

New DI engines are by all means solid.  It is an incredible technology, and I was fighting back in 2007 for Ford to put it on the new 5.0L (Coyote), but lost that battle.  But at the end of the day, the base engine architecture is still inferior.  The pushrods are a huge source of inefficiency, but as I've harped on repeatedly, it is the inability to get a pent roof chamber from the inline valve layout that is the biggest weakness of the engine.

 

 

I will be spending time in a Raptor powered Malibu in two weeks again. I will listen again.

[ahopkins22LSV]

@The Hulk, A few things. 

1. Surf gates are not the same size for all boats. 

2. I really do feel having too many options for setup can be a problem. Look at how many threads that still pop up on here asking for setup help with the current system, when honestly it is as simple as hitting fill all, wedge at ramp or two clicks and cruise at 10.8-11.2 and go. Honestly I think the surf presets are a waste of time. I see it every weekend on our lake and we have people come up to us and ask OMG how do you have such a long wave or whatever. And these are people in new (15-17's) boats.

3. You maybe on to something with the SG angles changes the wave but many people have tried this with their DIY SG systems. It doesn't seem to work. Maybe it will on the newer hulls designed around SG, but part of me says that it has been tested at the factory and it isn't an option for a reason. Surfing is the whole scene right now. If this would make the wave that much better for Malibu I'd imagine it would already be out, because I agree, it wouldn't be hard to add. Just duplicate the wedge settings for SG.

4. And I still am baffled on why you say you can't make the wave super tall or super long on your boat with just the wedge. I know for a fact I could when I ran your boat for the event we host up here. Indiana water not the same as Michigan water?

[The Hulk]

30 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

@The Hulk, A few things. 

1. Surf gates are not the same size for all boats. 

2. I really do feel having too many options for setup can be a problem. Look at how many threads that still pop up on here asking for setup help with the current system, when honestly it is as simple as hitting fill all, wedge at ramp or two clicks and cruise at 10.8-11.2 and go. Honestly I think the surf presets are a waste of time. I see it every weekend on our lake and we have people come up to us and ask OMG how do you have such a long wave or whatever. And these are people in new (15-17's) boats.

3. You maybe on to something with the SG angles changes the wave but many people have tried this with their DIY SG systems. It doesn't seem to work. Maybe it will on the newer hulls designed around SG, but part of me says that it has been tested at the factory and it isn't an option for a reason. Surfing is the whole scene right now. If this would make the wave that much better for Malibu I'd imagine it would already be out, because I agree, it wouldn't be hard to add. Just duplicate the wedge settings for SG.

4. And I still am baffled on why you say you can't make the wave super tall or super long on your boat with just the wedge. I know for a fact I could when I ran your boat for the event we host up here. Indiana water not the same as Michigan water?

yes dont you know our water is different? ha.

no my waver is killer, long/tall.. easy to adjust...i love it.

my wrong: i assumed the SG's were same size "seemed like it" but i didnt measure, or perhaps they were on the old ones for the 22mx/23lsv that i was around etc.

 when i hit the SG to change sides you can watch the wave start to change there is a split second i see the wave do something that would be nice for getting more pop closer to boat "less deflection" which makes me believe at least that adjustments might work. i'm thinking like the furthest 25% range within that range would be nice... but again quick adjustability would be desired because you alwasy need adjustments depending on weight/ppl in boat, ballast, wedge, speed, wind conditions, chop etc. 

your probably right in that too many options may confuse normal people but i'm an "options guy" and "not normal" ha ... so while i dont use half the options on most things i buy i like to have them.

also most aftermarket devices do not operate exactly like SG. like the Surf Assist and things are not 90 deg vertical deflection so they are listing the boat, Nautiques is more of a side-style emergency break. SG has the longest fin/style deflection so i think it would make the biggest noticeable difference on malibu compared to the others. 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by The Hulk

[ahopkins22LSV]

Just now, The Hulk said:

yes dont you know our water is different? ha.

no my waver is killer, long/tall.. easy to adjust...i love it.

 when i hit the SG to change sides you can watch the wave start to change there is a split second i see the wave do something that would be nice for getting more pop closer to boat "less deflection" which makes me believe at least that adjustments might work. i'm thinking like the furthest 25% range within that range would be nice... but again quick adjustability would be desired because you alwasy need adjustments depending on weight/ppl in boat, ballast, wedge, speed, wind conditions, chop etc. 

your probably right in that too many options may confuse normal people but i'm an "options guy" so while i dont use half the options on most things i buy i like to have them.

 

 

Me too! But we aren't normal.

[hethj7]

I'm with @ahopkinsTXi here.   I see what @The Hulk is saying, but we just had this discussion on my boat over the weekend.   Options are nice, but I like that I'm not on a centurion and always worrying about if I've got it all perfectly dialed in.   Heck, I do enough wondering on my Bu just depending how many people are in the boat and whether I got all the air out of the bags.    Great if Malibu ends up offering it, but it isn't something I'm really clamoring for.  

[Cole2001]

If they made the adjustable surfgate similar to the GSA it could be decent. Have it automatically go out to that setting it's always at and then have a dial to fine tune it in.