M235 first day EPIC FAIL

[hethj7]

I agree some things are to be expected but we shouldn't be making excuses for Malibu. Hose clamps being in the right place and tight should be a very basic check.  Coincidentally, one of my issues I found was a loose clamp for the water going to the shaft seal.   

I also know of horror stories with other brands too.  Just sucks for these guys if they got a couple lemons in a row. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

Yes, it does suck for the OP. I had a lemon myself. It was not the most fun thing to deal with, but my dealer and Malibu made it right. I couldn't have asked for anything more.

I was also not making an excuse, but stating a fact. Because boats are 100% built and inspected by humans, things are going to get missed. Even in the auto industry were most things are error proofed automatically, things get missed. It is a part of manufacturing.

[AJwakedevil]

32 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

Also remember that they under pressure to ship as many boats per day as possible. High Demand = Mistakes. It's hard to balance production speed with QA.

But hitting 80% visual inspection marks and missing stuff just to get it off the line and to the dealer is acceptable for the top tier boats? 

I don't see it acceptable at all, but I could understand a 21vlx getting a quick inspection so they could spend a little more time on the M235....

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

36 minutes ago, AJwakedevil said:

But hitting 80% visual inspection marks and missing stuff just to get it off the line and to the dealer is acceptable for the top tier boats? 

I don't see it acceptable at all, but I could understand a 21vlx getting a quick inspection so they could spend a little more time on the M235....

 

None of us are saying it is acceptable. But it is a fact that visual inspection misses stuff and when volumes are high things are missed more. I'm sure Malibu or anyone else doesn't find it acceptable either. And if they do, it will bite them in the a**.

And yes you can be better than 80% with visual, but it takes an extremely dedicated team and normally multiple loops of inspection. 

(I have no clue how the Malibu factory is run btw. Just sharing experience I have from the auto industry)

[Chrisjjbrown]

 I heard Nautique's Visual inspections always exceed 90%.

[Sixer]

Anybody ever take delivery of a new F-150 to find a bunch of nuts and bolts under the floor mats?  I agree that mistakes happen, but the high frequency that you hear about it in Malibu's is disturbing.  Especially in a boat like the M.......I'd be ticked.  I have heard that my local dealer asked Malibu to improve on the QA, because it's taking them too much manpower to fix every boat they sell as they come onto their lot.  Especially in custom order boats, they basically become a quick middle man, yet have to do a bunch of cleanup to make the boat presentable after it arrives from the factory.  Good luck to the OP's and others with QA issues........not fun.

[DarkSide]

1 minute ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

 I heard Nautique's Visual inspections always exceed 90%.

I have also heard Nautique takes almost 3x as long to build.   

[bamaboy]

It's true JJ. A unicorn also takes a dump in your bilge upon certification.  Magical things are possible at correct craft.  

[Chrisjjbrown]

Just now, DarkSide said:

I have also heard Nautique takes almost 3x as long to build.   

So 10x quicker than centurions 

[ahopkins22LSV]

13 minutes ago, Sixer said:

Anybody ever take delivery of a new F-150 to find a bunch of nuts and bolts under the floor mats?  I agree that mistakes happen, but the high frequency that you hear about it in Malibu's is disturbing.  Especially in a boat like the M.......I'd be ticked.  I have heard that my local dealer asked Malibu to improve on the QA, because it's taking them too much manpower to fix every boat they sell as they come onto their lot.  Especially in custom order boats, they basically become a quick middle man, yet have to do a bunch of cleanup to make the boat presentable after it arrives from the factory.  Good luck to the OP's and others with QA issues........not fun.

That's because every nut, bolt, push pin, christmas tree, wire clip, whatever is either automatically placed and installed being verified by revolution count and torque spec. And then verified by robotic inspect to meet spec or minimum presence. All of the is done automatically. Zero human interaction.

If a product is installed by humans the product is automatically verified to meet spec, or at minimum presence by robotic measuring systems. Also the line will stop at the station if an operator installs 9 of 10 bolts or what that step is. Those systems know exactly what variant the truck is so it knows whether or not it needs ten bolts, two or none. So comparing cars/trucks to boats is not relevant at all. The processes are soooooooo far apart. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by ahopkinsTXi

[Choiceind]

17 hours ago, Wakesetter67 said:

Sounds like you hit something, Most of us know that sound all to familiar...

I caught a pair of shorts and wrapped around prop and shaft, was pretty violent too, after I s*** myself I just had to go under and cut it off.

[JeffC]

This has been an interesting thread to follow knowing that I will take delivery soon (at least I hope so).   Given that boats are hand built, I expect that I will find some issues.   My hope and expectation is that they are minor in nature, things that I can take note of and have resolved when I take it in for the post break in oil change.    If it is a major item that puts the boat in limp mode, or makes it unusable, then I would have to say I would not be very happy.   Having said that, knowing that is a possibility is EXACTLY why I bought the boat from a local dealer.  

Our season is already short enough... serious down time is a bad thing.   I feel for the OP... not how you want to start time with a brand new boat.   

[Fman]

20 hours ago, potterm said:

So I took delivery of my custom ordered M235.  It turned out amazing!  Boat and wave look epic.  Just one huge catch.  Just 2 hours of run time after taking delivery, there was a loud clunk and the boat started violently shaking.  We were cruising at 25 mph when it happened.  After that, any attempt to go faster than 5 mph felt like the transmission was going blow up.  After making sure there was oil in everything and none in the bilge.  We idled back to my lift.  

I can't completely express my disappointment!  My 2015 23 LSV was at best a lemon and now my M235 is having an even worse start.  Not too mention Malibu's fit and finish is poor.  M235 has the same poor workmanship as my previous A22 and 23 LSV:  loose brackets, hatches that will not stay closed, loose screws, extra hardware in the compartments and bilge.   Not acceptable in a boat that costs this much money.  I expected better.  

Perfect catch marine is coming to pick it up tomorrow.  If it wasn't for their excellent service I would have been done with Malibu 2 boats ago.  

Will post pics of the boat when I'm a bit less upset about it.

 

Did you ever consider handling this differently?

Next time you have a problem with your boat how about doing some fact finding working with your dealer before coming on a public forum land blasting Malibu and the M235.  Honestly, this is not the way to handle this and I am sure Malibu and your dealer don't appreciate it.  I definitely can appreciate your frustration but give Malibu and your dealer the opportunity to take care of the problem and figure out what happened.  And what if YOU actually caused the problem and hit something in the water?

[kerpluxal]

Can understand your frustration and hopefully it all gets resolved. However, I don't know for fact since I am not on your boat or see the issue with the vibration at > 5mph.. your last issue sounds like an underwater strike to me. It does not matter how deep the water is. From my experience:

• 60 ft of water
  • loud thump and when in gear continuous thumping, in neutral all was fine. I was concerned since a new engine and transmission was just installed.
  • Outcome... stupid fisherman had to much weight on a float line and wrapped it around prop.
• 15 ft of water
  • Hit something small under water and vibration
  • Outcome.... Put boat in neutral back in gear, still vibration. Put boat in neutral then reverse back to forward, still vibration.. Put boat in neutral, turned off boat, restarted boat, put boat back into gear.. no vibration. after the hit, the resonance had to stop before everything is fine.
• 15 ft of water
  • submerged floating log.. 10mph completely trashed undercarriage.. went to shop (bent strut, bent shaft, bent rudder, bent prop, bent wedge).
• 10 ft of water
  • Hit stump at 10 mph... bent shaft, bent strut, bent prop, prop went into hull...sent to shop
• 8 ft of water
  • slight tag on something... vibration > 5mph ... pulled boat out.. prop "looked" fine, changed prop, no issues.

So an under water strike is possible no matter the depth.. Lake Livingston is notorious for underwater strikes in 50 ft of water.. If you can't see it, you can't avoid it...

From your description it sounds like you hit something that was underwater and appeared to be no damage (have not read anywhere that if you investigated to see if you have struck anything nor tried a different prop to see if yours was knocked out of balanced or noticeable bent blades... and since the boat had other issues the assumption was something else was assembled wrong.

How did the transmission feel like it was going to blow up? I cannot see the vibration being caused by transmission or vdrive issue... I could be wrong.. but I honestly think you had a submerged strike and have not investigated it enough to say otherwise.

Sorry about your other issues and hopefully it all gets resolved. I have 2 Malibu's and thus far no issues other than bad luck with debris and a ballast bag failure that resulted in engine damage.

Edited April 11, 2017 by kerpluxal

[kerpluxal]

11 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Wave?   Don't you have to break in engines any more or do people go to full ballast as soon as it comes off trailer?

After my new engine was installed I was told by dealer:

1st 10 hours:

• Do not add any ballast
• Do not do any activities behind boat
• Vary throttle position ever 5 - 10 minutes
• Change oil

After 10 hours but before 20 hours

• Do not add full ballast
  • My full ballast lol, stock ballast was fine
• Start doing your activities as normal, but DO NOT (that was the way they yelled it to me  ) go with my additional 4000lbs of additional ballast.

After 20 hours just go but change oil again at 25 hours.

Seems a bit overboard.. but.. my warranty will be covered if I break in to their process. I know they won't know if I had ballast or not... but that computer will tattle tale on me if did have to visit them for an issue

[bamaboy]

3 hours ago, Choiceind said:

I caught a pair of shorts and wrapped around prop and shaft, was pretty violent too, after I s*** myself I just had to go under and cut it off.

At least you then had an extra pair of shorts given that you just shat yourself

[Murphy8166]

I'm shocked..... shocked that the usage of EPIC FAIL is still alive and well.  I thought we ushered that 2015 term out last year.

Lot of good info in this thread about how to handle your business...

[WAwinegrapes]

9 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

At least you then had an extra pair of shorts given that you just shat yourself

AN extra pair of shorts, a sharp   knife and even a pair of goggles...just in case.

[TallRedRider]

My money is on a small floating stick that bent one of the blades just enough to cause a vibration.  A cursory inspection under the boat, especially if it is on a lift, will often miss the tiny bend in the blade that is causing it.  I once struck a floating piece of wood and I was amazed at how little of a bend in one of the blades made my boat feel like a bucket of bolts.  

I think the OP views this as a last straw sort of problem, however.  If we read what he says, he has found far too many problems, not just on this boat, but on his previous Malibu boat as well.  I think that is what resulted in the full on internet assault.  It would seem he has lost his patience, and is done doing the 'talk to your dealer and let them make it right' approach.  I am just reading between the lines since he has not come back to elaborate with us yet.  

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by TallRedRider

[isellacuras]

I agree with the likelihood of hitting something, even a small stick can cause a ruckus. I also know hat I had a BUNCH of problems with my boat in the first year+. Either way, it sucks that the first experience wasn't great. The good news and hope for you is that my boat has been problem free for the last 3 years once they sorted out all the problems. Hopefully your dealer is as good as mine. 

[DarkSide]

I believe TRR hit the nail on the head.   Reading the post he appears to be happy with the dealer itself just the lack of QAQC on his 2 previous boats, and now this one too. 

He was probably reassured that the flagship M235 is much more meticulously built,  and the fit and finish is on another level, thus pushing frustration even higher. 

The sad thing is people post legit issues and get mocked for it.    There is some good feedback like that of @kerpluxal, mixed in though. 

[potterm]

3 hours ago, Fman said:

Did you ever consider handling this differently?

Next time you have a problem with your boat how about doing some fact finding working with your dealer before coming on a public forum land blasting Malibu and the M235.  Honestly, this is not the way to handle this and I am sure Malibu and your dealer don't appreciate it.  I definitely can appreciate your frustration but give Malibu and your dealer the opportunity to take care of the problem and figure out what happened.  And what if YOU actually caused the problem and hit something in the water?

Yes, I lost my cool because my 2015 23 LSV was so problematic.  A debris strike is a possibility for the vibration, although that would not explain the poor workmanship, the service required alert coming off and on a few minutes prior to the vibration starting, and the service hatch hitting me in the knee with any decent size wave I hit.  One of the reasons I went to the M was in hopes of better quality control after my last two boats.  My dealer takes care of me.  I've been quite happy with them.  I will update when I know more.  Let me review some of my LSV issues so you can understand where I am coming from (Service light coming on the first day I got it every few minutes and still not fixed after a year of warranty claims, multiple screen replacements, power wedge complete failure, retrofit surf band not working most of the time, stereo turning off and on spontaneously, Vdrive slipping due to hose coming off, and exhaust manifolds loose from factory fouling the 02 sensors.  The most bothersome was the service engine alarm that was never fully resolved.  So yes I lost my cool when within the few 2 hours of driving my new M235 the service light started coming on followed by the vibration and limping it back to the slip.  I'll keep you guys posted.

[Fman]

8 minutes ago, potterm said:

Yes, I lost my cool because my 2015 23 LSV was so problematic.  A debris strike is a possibility for the vibration, although that would not explain the poor workmanship, the service required alert coming off and on a few minutes prior to the vibration starting, and the service hatch hitting me in the knee with any decent size wave I hit.  One of the reasons I went to the M was in hopes of better quality control after my last two boats.  My dealer takes care of me.  I've been quite happy with them.  I will update when I know more.  Let me review some of my LSV issues so you can understand where I am coming from (Service light coming on the first day I got it every few minutes and still not fixed after a year of warranty claims, multiple screen replacements, power wedge complete failure, retrofit surf band not working most of the time, stereo turning off and on spontaneously, Vdrive slipping due to hose coming off, and exhaust manifolds loose from factory fouling the 02 sensors.  The most bothersome was the service engine alarm that was never fully resolved.  So yes I lost my cool when within the few 2 hours of driving my new M235 the service light started coming on followed by the vibration and limping it back to the slip.  I'll keep you guys posted.

That sucks no doubt with your LSV, not even close to my experience with multiple Malibu' s over the past 7 years.  I'm just not a fan of venting publicly when your upset.  It just comes off wrong and really does nobody on either side any good.  It sounds like your dealer is taking care of you which is why it is so important to have a good dealer.  The dealer really can make or break the brand.

I am definitely not saying Malibu is perfect, but your experience wow...just hard to figure it out.  I guess I have had so much good results with Malibu it just seems odd to me.  I put over 200 hours on each boat I have owned with very few minor issues.

Please keep us posted on your progress and how Malibu handles your repair requests.  Wish you all the best, hope you can put this behind you and get that M back on the water and enjoy it.

[spikew919]

Think on this talking about break in procedure. Has anyone here ever demoed a new boat with less than 10 hrs?  I am guilty. And yes we filled everything and surfed it.  So when the dealer then sales the boats that have not been through the book described break in procedure. Is the motor warranty then voided?  Makes me scratch my head ??‍♂️?

[SCMike]

8 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

 

I was also not making an excuse, but stating a fact. Because boats are 100% built and inspected by humans, things are going to get missed.

I'm not bagging on Malibu at all, but this comment just isn't true unless Malibu allows it to be true.  Do you think hose clamps are not fitted properly and extra screws are laying around in a Rolls Royce?  Every RR that rolls off the line is hand built, even the engines. If quality and craftsmanship are on your DNA, you just don't accept those type of errors. 

I'm also not comparing the build process of RR vs. Malibu (I understand they are totally different) I'm just so not agree with that hand built statement leads to less quality. That simply is not true. 

My 21vlx had some issues that popped up during the first 10 hours, but I didn't expect it to be 100% perfect.  There is nothing wrong that is keeping me off the water, so I'm totally fine with it. My dealer is also taking very good care of me on these warranty issues.  Now, if I had the same issues at the OP (especially on an M235) I'd be pretty pissed off.