Malibu to marinize own GM engines

3,012 · December 19, 2016

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Buy any new boat and nobody will be surprised if you have some "gremlins" (many of which are essentially manufacturing defects) to work out.

I think a lot of this is also due to resources, boat companies do thier absolute best to provide the best product possible. But let's face it, Malibu puts 4 brand new hulls out every year, they likely produce a couple of prototype and test them to the absolute best of thier abilities, but they do not have the manpower to put even 2000 hours of water testing on these before they hit consumers. So issues will arise. Now compare Malibu's resources to smaller builders.... yeah...it's to be expected you will likely find quirks, especially in first iterations.

How many dyno hours do GM/Ford put on engines before they are released, same with cars, heck most manufacturers have thier desert proving grounds near me! They test the s*** out of thier products because they have the resources.

1,816 · December 19, 2016

I know very well that there are plenty of "those" customers out there....... however-

If there is one thing I have learned about boat ownership over the years, it is that customer service, in the marine industry, is lacking in general.......There are great dealers out there, and things move very smoothly. However, on average, I find that lots of places just don't go the extra mile for anyone. Constant promises that they don't keep, constant delays on ordering parts, constant delays on repairs, Overcharging for simple services ($600.00 to winterize? $150.00 for an oil change? are you kidding?), poor quality of work, performed by "technicians" that aren't even qualified to change a wheelbarrow tire, etc......

I hear so many horror stories, it boggles my mind. It is unlike any other vehicle service market around. Sure, you hear horror stories about all kinds of customer service in different industries. But, I never hear anywhere close to the stories I hear (or experience) in the marine world. This isn't exclusive to boat dealers either. A lot of boat lift and dock companies, and dealers, are guilty of the same thing, as well as the everything in the jet ski world.....

Luckily, the MC, Nautique, and Bu dealers are all fantastic in this area. Most others are not, and many of them have a downright snooty attitude problem to go along with it. I don't know what puts them all in a bad mood.....

1,209 · December 19, 2016

@Bawshogg No offense, While I understand that the nature of the boat business is very seasonal and dealership profits and manufacture profits aren't the same, I get the feeling that you have an attitude that the customer is an idiot and it annoys you that they would demand better service for spending 100k or more on a luxury item. These boats are luxury items... they cost well over 100k (more than some Porsche), are only used for several months out of the year, there are cheaper alternatives, etc... Maybe you have become numb to the customer because you are around the boats so much and you don't see them the same way your customers do. I'm not saying you have to provide a concierge or even a loaner boat. I would just urge you to try to see things from the customer side and be more understanding. Some customers are just real needy and have unrealistic expectations, I get that (I have those in my business as well).

I 100% agree with @IXFE on the idea of having a relationship with your dealer. I am fortunate enough to have good relations with all the dealers in my area. In my line of work, we are a highly competitive market. We have very stiff competition and sometimes we have very little margin on the product, but what helps us win with the customer is our relationship. In fact, our business is driven by relationship marketing. I have to ask, what are some of these dealers doing to establish a relationship with their customers or is it just a one way street? If it is a one way street, then that dealer is not a good one in my mind.

Back to to what I believe started this discussion on a customer's expectations from a dealer: Having the engine made by Malibu puts even more pressure on the dealer because they will now become the only place for Malibu engine warranty repairs. Whereas, any indmar dealer could work on them before. I guess it is similar to Ilmor and Mastercraft.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bamabonners

1,531 · December 19, 2016

14 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

I find that lots of places just don't go the extra mile for anyone. Constant promises that they don't keep, constant delays on ordering parts, constant delays on repairs, Overcharging for simple services ($600.00 to winterize? $150.00 for an oil change? are you kidding?), poor quality of work, performed by "technicians" that aren't even qualified to change a wheelbarrow tire, etc......

That's why I have cultivated a personal relationship with the head mechanic at a nearby dealer. It's not a Malibu dealer but they do service Indmar and Mercruiser which are my drives of interest. I can call the mechanic (never abuse the privilege!) and find out the "real" cost and time frame for service - and even get some DIY advice if they are booked up. If ya see 'em at a local watering hole chat 'em up and buy 'em a beer

4,203 · December 19, 2016

To Malibu's defense, most of the parts that Malibu actually builds do pretty good in the lifetime of the boat. Same thing with the other boat manufactures. You sometimes need a gel or vinyl repair but those aren't the big warranty items. The things that go wrong are the parts or systems that get subbed out. Things that a lot of the times are used in other boat makes as well. They have a limited selection of these things in the market place and have to live with the quirks all the while trying to get the vendors to bring up their quality and not their price. Go to the boat show sometime and take notice of the parts that are used in other boats, even in other styles of boats. Check the pontoon dashes the cruisers and the runabouts. The same 12" and 7" screens we have in the new boats are used in other boats as well. Engines are suppled to many different boat builders. Pretty much all of the hardware is supplied across the board. Some of the same vinyls are used in other makes of boats. The point here is that the boat builders only have so many options to use for parts or systems if they want to keep upping the game. We as customers are the ones that expect Malibu to warranty these boats but many times it's some one else that supplies the part and Malibu has to deal with it. I can see bringing parts or systems in house to get control of the warranty issues. Malibu is smart enough to bring in experts with the new parts or systems to stop the warranty bleeding. People that are experienced with or even have designed the parts are put in place to expedite the process. I have heard who they have brought in with the engines and I have no concerns about it. The concerns I have are for the parts that Malibu chooses to use and leaving the quality process up to the vendors. After a manufacturer commits to these parts, it's hard to change in mid stream to another supplier if those parts aren't out there from other sources. The vendors have to up the quality for their success in the biz.

13,074 · December 19, 2016

24 minutes ago, minnmarker said:

That's why I have cultivated a personal relationship with the head mechanic at a nearby dealer. It's not a Malibu dealer but they do service Indmar and Mercruiser which are my drives of interest. I can call the mechanic (never abuse the privilege!) and find out the "real" cost and time frame for service - and even get some DIY advice if they are booked up. If ya see 'em at a local watering hole chat 'em up and buy 'em a beer

THIS. And clearly there are some people who will never get it.

2,295 · December 19, 2016

@bamabonners I'm not a boat dealer, a boat mechanic , or a boat manufacturer...So lets make that clear. I am an enthusiast that works in a similar, not parallel industry that has some off the same types of interactions. I AM an inboard CUSTOMER, and have been for many years.

I once thought the same..... " I spent a lot of money on this boat....I DESERVE -------------". That was back when I spent $37k for a NEW boat. It got me nowhere but frustrated. 150k dollar boats....same people , same dealerships, same operational strategies. The price of the boat didn't change the people that work in the industry.

Having been in and around the inboard towboat INDUSTRY for MANY years has allowed me to gain a better insight about what REALLY goes down and how it really operates. Throughout the years I have formed friendships and relationships with industry people . This is how I can completely understand ALL of the struggles they go through to provide service . I am not making excuses for liars, cheats, and swindlers...I am talking about the legitimate AVERAGE inboard boat dealers.

I understand everyone's demand for higher levels of service, but I also understand the economics of it too. The sales VOLUME is just not there to justify the levels of service some of you expect...at a reasonable cost..... I don't work for free....Do you? When things get to the point where servicing ones "luxury item" as we have deemed them, isn't profitable....what's the alternative?

As @shawndoggy pointed out, quantity of boats built is the MAJOR issue that effects costs, service, the industry as whole........But I also DONT want them to sell 400k boats a year either...Can you imagine what the struggle to find clear water would be at that level?

Skilled technicians are also VERY hard to find ......the automotive industry has a MASSIVE technician shortage and look at the demand in that sector .The marine industry isn't a 1/4 that size....now the INBOARD sector.....its .00000 of the automotive industry.

One other thing...I also feel like if you are willing to take on the responsibility of being an inboard owner, you should also take on the responsibility of knowing how to perform most of the basic repairs and maintenance operations YOURSELF . A good captain should know how to take care of his ship. Most ALL of it is basic stuff can readily be figured out here, youtube, or through your owners documents. I'm not saying you should be doing major engine repairs, running gear swaps and stuff at that level, but complaining about 600 dollars to winterize.... DO IT YOURSELF...then you don't HAVE To complain about the cost, the time frame, AND you know its done right.

2,855 · December 19, 2016

I'm not personally aware of a situation where an inboard customer who is reasonable, polite, and respectful has gotten bad service. That does not mean every projections gets met or that every work order is perfect. But with a reasonable attitude, I think every dealer strives to do their best, but yes, some are more capable than others.

1,329 · December 19, 2016

Reading all these posts about customer service and warranty work is interesting in relation to Malibu vertically integrating the powertrain into their business model. Kudos to Malibu for taking the plunge/risk with this and I hope it gives them some margin pick up that perhaps cab be shared with the customer. If they set the process up correctly, I see little risk from a powertrain reliability standpoint. Probably the bigger risk is the savings actually flowing down to the bottom line. Will be interesting to watch.

1,890 · December 19, 2016

8 minutes ago, Tims said:

Reading all these posts about customer service and warranty work is interesting in relation to Malibu vertically integrating the powertrain into their business model. Kudos to Malibu for taking the plunge/risk with this and I hope it gives them some margin pick up that perhaps cab be shared with the customer. If they set the process up correctly, I see little risk from a powertrain reliability standpoint. Probably the bigger risk is the savings actually flowing down to the bottom line. Will be interesting to watch.

Keep wishing!

But if you really want in on that action, then buy some stock...any profits from this risk will be distributed to shareholders, not to customers.

3,012 · December 19, 2016

^^^Most accurate thing ever posted!

1,816 · December 19, 2016

2 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

@bamabonners I'm not a boat dealer, a boat mechanic , or a boat manufacturer...So lets make that clear. I am an enthusiast that works in a similar, not parallel industry that has some off the same types of interactions. I AM an inboard CUSTOMER, and have been for many years.

I once thought the same..... " I spent a lot of money on this boat....I DESERVE -------------". That was back when I spent $37k for a NEW boat. It got me nowhere but frustrated. 150k dollar boats....same people , same dealerships, same operational strategies. The price of the boat didn't change the people that work in the industry.

Having been in and around the inboard towboat INDUSTRY for MANY years has allowed me to gain a better insight about what REALLY goes down and how it really operates. Throughout the years I have formed friendships and relationships with industry people . This is how I can completely understand ALL of the struggles they go through to provide service . I am not making excuses for liars, cheats, and swindlers...I am talking about the legitimate AVERAGE inboard boat dealers.

I understand everyone's demand for higher levels of service, but I also understand the economics of it too. The sales VOLUME is just not there to justify the levels of service some of you expect...at a reasonable cost..... I don't work for free....Do you? When things get to the point where servicing ones "luxury item" as we have deemed them, isn't profitable....what's the alternative?

As @shawndoggy pointed out, quantity of boats built is the MAJOR issue that effects costs, service, the industry as whole........But I also DONT want them to sell 400k boats a Most ALL of it is basic stuff can readily be figured out here, youtube, or through your owners documents. I'm not saying you should be doing major engine repairs, running gear swaps and stuff at that level, but complaining about 600 dollars to winterize.... DO IT YOURSELF...then you don't HAVE To complain about the cost, the time frame, AND you know its done right.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your points, but that sure sounded like a long list of "excuses" to me....... like it is ok to be "that" dealer, because the bottom line $$ should be justification for not going the extra mile for your customers.

Who knows, maybe it's just my area........but NOBODY that owns a boat dealership around here is starving. Quite the opposite in fact.

I also don't agree with "you own a boat, you should know how to service it yourself, so stop complaining". And that is coming from somebody who does all of their own service work on their own boat, cars, fleet trucks, spade shovel, whatever.....

The dealer has a service department for a reason, and there are tons of people that don't have the general "know how", or the time, to do all of their own maintenance. All of a sudden, they shouldn't own a boat? And they don't have the right to be upset that a dealer has a $5M house on the lake, and wants $600.00 for a job that takes 1.5 hours and $50.00 worth of fluids??

Dont get me wrong, I see your side...... but there is a general dealer attitude around here that is not ok. How do I know this? Because there are a couple good ones, and they outshine the rest. unfortunate thing, is that they deal in the big $$ brands, so most folks have to work with the bad dealers because they can't just drop $120k on something that is most certainly a "luxury item".

edit- the fact that the good dealers are the ones that deal CC,MC, and Bu has nothing to do with the money they cost...... it's just the luck of the draw, and they have an owner who cares, with a staff that follows...

Edited December 19, 2016 by TenTwentyOne

1,329 · December 19, 2016

1 hour ago, formulaben said:

Keep wishing!

But if you really want in on that action, then buy some stock...any profits from this risk will be distributed to shareholders, not to customers.

It was tongue and cheek. And I will pass on that action.

2,082 · December 20, 2016

Since we have gone away from engine discussion, I will bring us back a little bit. I wonder what the warranty duration will be with the new Malibu motors.

Tige has started to offer a 7 year warranty on the engine and drivetrain as a boat show special. They already have a 5 year, 555 hour engine warranty for 2017. Ilmor has 36 month or 480 hours. I suspect Malibu warranty will be somewhere along Ilmor's lead.

Since we have been somewhat critical of boat dealers and manufacturers in this thread, I would throw in my 2 cents that brands have changed warranty terms year to year quite a bit. That is maddening.

Edited December 20, 2016 by TallRedRider

3,012 · December 20, 2016

2 minutes ago, TallRedRider said:

Since we have gone away from engine discussion, I will bring us back a little bit. I wonder what the warranty duration will be with the new Malibu motors.

Tige has started to offer a 7 year warranty on the engine and drivetrain. I have yet to see the fine print, which I am suspicious of, but we shall see if this creates any sort of industry-wide increase. Since we have been somewhat critical of boat dealers and manufacturers in this thread, I would throw in my 2 cents that brands have changed warranty terms year to year quite a bit. That is maddening.

Supra matched it today, and added a Swell system upgrade and cover!

So Tige/Supra stepping up to 7 year indmar factory warranty. Engine and drive train. I don't know if there is hour limit. Tige put 555 hour limit on 5 year so who knows.

Malibu going away has to be devastating to indmar.

2,082 · December 20, 2016

Just now, DarkSide said:

Supra matched it today, and added a Swell system upgrade and cover!

So Tige/Supra stepping up to 7 year indmar factory warranty. Engine and drive train. I don't know if there is hour limit. Tige put 555 hour limit on 5 year so who knows.

Malibu going away has to be devastating to indmar.

Dude...I was editing when you quoted me...I should do my homework, then talk.

2,552 · December 20, 2016

For 2017, the Ilmor engines are 5 years or 500 hours.

http://www.ilmor.com/en/marine/recreational/warranties-manuals.aspx

Edited December 20, 2016 by bamaboy

3,012 · December 20, 2016

Just now, TallRedRider said:

Dude...I was editing when you quoted me...I should do my homework, then talk.

LOL, funny how different.

Tige 5yr/555 hrs now 7yrs/??? Indmar

Supra 5yr/??? Now 7yr/??? Indmar

Malibu 5yr/Unlimited Indmar

Axis 5yr/Unlimited ??? PCM

Nautique 5yr/500 hrs. PCM

Centurion 5yr/unlimited PCM

Mastercraft 5yr/unlimited??? Ilmore

If Malibu puts hour limit on everyone will follow, I would expect backlash though. As surfing is becoming more and more popular hrs/yr is dramatically increasing

1,816 · December 20, 2016

3 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

I'm pretty sure ilmor warranty is 5 years.

For 2017, the engines are 5 years or 500 hours.

http://www.ilmor.com/en/marine/recreational/warranties-manuals.aspx

Ilmore was 36 months, but blanketed by MCs 5 year bow to stern warranty. MC factory backs everything for 5 years, so there isn't any "that's only covered by the component manufacturer warranty" situations......

4,586 · December 20, 2016

On 12/13/2016 at 8:48 PM, ChainSetter said:

I refuse to buy any new Malibu idea at least for few years. They can't get much right these days. I'm on my third bu... not sure why. My 02 was amazing. My 07 went to hell at 450 hours and my 2015 (bought with 1 hour) is an absolute disaster to put it nicely. Not to mention my local dealer refuses to work on it. If they can't make a screen stop flickering, wedge and surf gate work, stereo work, etc I have a hard time investing is 90K on a hope and a prayer

Sounds like you have a dealer problem, they sell you a boat and refuse to work on it? ummm, honestly.... this just sounds a little crazy. Your power wedge, surf gate, stereo and screen don't work? I'm on my fourth Malibu and have a had very few problems. I think your definitely in the minority. I am not saying they are perfect boats and dont have issues at times but I would highly recommend calling someone at Malibu to find out why your dealer won't help you out.

Where are you located?

December 20, 2016

On 12/14/2016 at 7:08 AM, 23LSVOwner said:

I imagine there is a reason your dealer refuses to work on it.

You aren't one of those customers, are you?

Depends on what "one of those customers" means. If feeling that for 90K a boat shouldn't have a stress cracked d rings, should have a working wedge, a dash that doesn't flicker, a BT stereo that connects, a Bimini and boat cover with seams that hold together in the first year, working trailer LEDs etc...

For the kind of money new Malibu's cost the expectation should be perfection

3,012 · December 20, 2016

24 minutes ago, ChainSetter said:

Depends on what "one of those customers" means. If feeling that for 90K a boat shouldn't have a stress cracked d rings, should have a working wedge, a dash that doesn't flicker, a BT stereo that connects, a Bimini and boat cover with seams that hold together in the first year, working trailer LEDs etc...

For the kind of money new Malibu's cost the expectation should be perfection

I personally think these type quality issues are more common than we realize, or people are willing to admit.

Perfection will never exist in a wake boat. They are built by hand, by humans, on an assembly line. Malibu is trying to improve quality, increase production and find ways to cut production costs all at the same time. Tough nut to Crack, usually you only get to pick 2 of the 3....

4,586 · December 20, 2016

55 minutes ago, ChainSetter said:

Depends on what "one of those customers" means. If feeling that for 90K a boat shouldn't have a stress cracked d rings, should have a working wedge, a dash that doesn't flicker, a BT stereo that connects, a Bimini and boat cover with seams that hold together in the first year, working trailer LEDs etc...

For the kind of money new Malibu's cost the expectation should be perfection

That's a pipe dream. Regardless if you buy a Mastercraft, Nautique, MB, Centirion etc.... they all have issues a time times. They are hand made machines, mistakes can be made at times. The best way to get your problem resolved is to have a good relationship woth your dealer AND patience, because at times it will not always happen over night. Boats are not like vehicles, and parts are not as easily accessible at times.

I would recommend calling Malibu customer service to see if you can make progress on your boat. I have never had a warranty claim denied by Malibu, never.

4,586 · December 20, 2016

26 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

I personally think these type quality issues are more common than we realize, or people are willing to admit.

Perfection will never exist in a wake boat. They are built by hand, by humans, on an assembly line. Malibu is trying to improve quality, increase production and find ways to cut production costs all at the same time. Tough nut to Crack, usually you only get to pick 2 of the 3....

Along with ALL other wakeboat manufacturers they all want to cut costs, improve profits and still deliver a quality product.

3,012 · December 20, 2016

Just now, Fman said:

Along with ALL other wakeboat manufacturers they all want to cut costs, improve profits and still deliver a quality product.

Exactly, not intended as a knock on BU, that's why first line was "perfection will not exist in a wakeboat"

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