Are They Telling Lies or Stretching Truths

[kerpluxal]

1 hour ago, abattle10 said:

I can also see boats towboats being so expensive a good thing for the life of wakeboarding and skiing. I grew up skiing and wakeboarding behind a SeaRay and was fortunate enough to take my wakeboarding to the next level when I father bought a Bu. At that point I was already interested and really progressing in wakeboarding and I didn't want to let it go just to surf. Just because people can't afford a towboat doesn't mean they are going to not buy a boat. They are likely to buy an I/O or older "ski boat" in which you can't surf or it's difficult to surf behind until they save up the coin to buy a Vdrive

I can see skiing coming back. I skied when I was young until my dad brought home a shiny new wakeboard when I was probably 10 y/o and completely dropped skiing. Wakeboarding took over all of my time behind the boat. When I was starting college I decided that I wasn't going to let myself forget how to ski so I vowed to get a couple ski runs in every year.. Now I am probably one of a handful of 90s kids that can slalom, even though I look pretty pathetic doing it  but it is becoming so far gone from my generation that it is cool, just how my friends started skiing instead of snowboarding in high school because they thought it was "retro"

Well... LOL... I have a DD that the wave will blow away a lot of new boats wave... My daughter actually chose to compete in Slalom than wakeboarding.. Her reasoning was that in wakeboarding you are relying on a judge for points.. in slalom "there is a judge in the boat" but either you make the buoy or you don't... 

[kerpluxal]

57 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

I am 51 years old fairly athletic and I have discovered surfing fits my age more than wakeboarding. I own a 2016 23 lsv and we put 150 hours on the boat in the first year and 90% of it was surfing. I love to surf, but the degree of difficulty on tricks seem pretty high. I can do almost anything on my surf board well, as long as I am moving forward, but when it comes to doing tricks or spins, I am not sure if I will ever be able to move to the next level. After surfing 2-3 times a week March through November, I am have kind of become board with surfing and I am starting to wakeboard again.   

Slap on sky ski!!!!! 

[dalt1]

Air Chair is my choice!

[ConnollyCrew]

On 10/19/2016 at 10:15 PM, whiskeyrunner said:

Hi Folks-

Still on the fence with my 22VLX, but I'm getting closer, colors being the hardest part.  I'm trying to avoid buyer's remorse, and did a bit of homework on other 22ft comparisons (mostly the X21 and G20), just to make sure I'm happy with my choice.  I'm hoping the forum can help dispel some rumors, and just give me assurance with all your worldly experience :).   So here's where I'm hearing (from competitive sales reps; keep in mind):

- Malibu's wake is just as good as a G21 when using plug n play (I'd like to think they are close enough to be comparable, because minor differences don't matter for our skill)

- Mastercraft X10 has a crap wave, but has a better warranty and drives better

- Malibu is really hard to drive when surfing starboard, if you let go of the wheel it pulls hard (is this true, and if so, is it really a negative?)

- The big one- that since Malibu was sold to a VC, quality has dropped.  Competitors claim that the skilled labor has left and the little things are starting to rack up maintenance-wise at the cost of profit margins.

- The wedge is not a good technology, it wastes gas and only pulls the boat down in the water rather than shape a better wake.  ( I realize this can digress into a list vs tabs discussion that can't be solved)

There's a whole heck of a lot of things that I really like about the 'Bu, including the active community.  So I'm looking for quality opinions that will help me be an educated consumer.  

All sales pitch..... Demo them all and decide for yourself. Anyone that has to talk negatively is a piss poor sales rep. Having said that,I have a friend that sells Nautiques and he LOVES my Malibu, he even shared that for the $$$ Malibu can't be beat. The G has a really, really nice interior and a great wake, so does Malibu. I like how adjustable my Wake shape is(pw2 and ballast). I have had many pro level riders ride behind my boat and they all walked away impressed( a couple of them owns G's). This is all a personal choice and both the Bu and Nautique are great boats. I am not a Mastercraft fan in recent years. I would lean 22 VLX, but I am biased. 

Regarding the Wake comparison to G, the Malibu Wake can be adjusted from very mellow( little kids and beginner riders prefer a mellow transition) to really beefy with a lot of lip like Nautique. I have kids that compete and will stay with my adjustable wakeboard wake due to having all skill levels on any given day on my boat. The G wake is a more advanced shape and can be intimidating for beginner riders.. For me +1 for Malibu...

Almost forgot, ALL NEW BOATS  will have a small puch list of things to be repaired/ dialed in within 50 hours, it's normal. I have had warranty claims and Malibu ALWAYS comes thru. 

Oh, my buddy would have purchased a Malibu if he didn't sell Nautique... just saying ....

Keep is in the loop! Good luck!

Edited October 21, 2016 by ConnollyCrew

[Fman]

21 hours ago, The Hulk said:

IMO the malibu surf gate will create or "should" in theory create a longer surfable wave/pocket for the fact that its delaying the wave convergence LONGER by 1. sticking out the back of the boat FURTHER, and 2. sticking out horizontally further from the boat than NSS as an example "biggest competitor" against Surf Gate IMO at least both are vertical side of boat devices if that makes sense. NSS is acting more like a brake sticking straight out (but smaller) the Surf Gate is angled further out. that being said having a giant extra rudder sticking out the boat is surely trying to turn the boat: although its not hard at all to drive or hold the wheel straight. Now when doing a transfer it takes the driver a few times to time up the force to keep the boat straight. i have not tried on the NSS. but the more divergence you get with the Surf Gate makes "generally speaking" a longer surf pocket which is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT thing with newbies.. when surfing started and when i first tried it years ago it was difficult...small pockets and small waves. there is NOTHING worse than a small pocket IMO...with a newbie you have to adjust fwd/bkwd weight on the board and predict it in order to stay within the pocket. ON a smaller 20-21ft boat your going to already have a smaller /shorter pocket than guys with 23-25 footers. just the nature of the beast. 

Weight = more weight = bigger displacement, i like the wedge because it requires LESS actual weight in my boat since it creates it when i drive: means a lighter boat can produce similar waves as a heavier boat to some extent...lots of other variables here but just making it simple. Also another reason i DO NOT run lead and will NOT...i'd rather run more water than ever put lead in my boat...Because if i dont want the weight i can dump it overboard... also lead sinks.... anyhow a wedge is adding weight without adding it so to speak.. so now you have a MORE sporty driving lighter boat when your NOT surfing which could be a significant amount of time when you add it up.

not sure what watersports your into but Wakeboard is a thing of the past if your not already a PRO you will probably not do it once you surf on a good wave...so i would NOT consider a boat for a "slightly better wakeboard wave because as mentioned above any boat is good enough for 99.9% of NON PRO level wakeboarders...and its a dying sport....(sorry wakeboarders) ... surfing is driving the industry and the boats PERIOD.

IMO malibu boats drive like sport cars compared to some of the other boats which i LIKE because i do a lot of cruising: probably the majority. heck my 25 lsv drives very sporty for the size once up at cruise...its incredible. and the 23s are crazy sporty as well, i cant imagine what a 20-22 would be like. Malibu's are KNOWN for their sporty drive, G's are known as Pigs, Mastercraft....well i cant tell you but i dont suspect for 1 second that its BETTER than a bu at a min equal or from what i've read worse.. 

are there fit and finish differnce between a Naut. and Bu? YES but you will pay through the nose for some of those small difference (and the majority of those you probably wont notice unless you start pulling your boat apart) there is no question a Nautique is slightly better build quality but again its not justified in the price difference if that makes sense and nor does it matter much to 99.9% of people and i doubt the avg boat owner can tell much of these difference. I also feel with any boat you will have some issues so as mentioned above local GOOD dealer is probably one of the MOST important things.. and for me i dont even have one local i make a few hour drive and i still own a BU instead of a G from the local guys.. Again i could not justify the difference for a G23 vs getting a sweet 25lsv. i feel you get "more for the money" on a Bu than most other brands. 

Mastercraft has had to make a large come back in surf waves...they were all about wakeboarding and have been late to change IMO...and from what i can tell are still playing catch up. Also with how they have changed their premium boats to mid level boats is kind of crap for previous year owners.. Listing the boats the way they do is not the technology i'm after because listing means your LIFTING the other side AKA less displacement in theory. 

Centurion has come a LONG way and have GREAT surf waves and great deep V for handling chop: i would consider one and have but i just feel like they are priced like the big boys but still lack a few things and style: granted with the new Ri series there has been a HUGE leap. and while i have yet to drive one i hear great things: so perhaps they have made it to the top finally... 

the debate between Nautique and Malibu will go on and on and on and on... so the only person that can make the decision is you... but they are not in the same price category so comparing them you need to have realistic idea of the cost differences and justify in your mind if its what you want or not.

And lastly go test drive one: in 2014 i was all about a G23 that was going to be IT for me no matter what...stock wave was it nothing needed etc... went on a demo and couldnt surf stock wave....Yea you want to talk about a HUGE let down....granted things have changed in 2016 but i'm just saying... then i went and surfed a 23 lsv malibu and also i could NOT surf stock wave without PNP... and then took a look at the price difference and said....welp they both need extra weight so lets save a TON of mula and go with the 23lsv. saving that money has also helped me move into a newer 2016 25lsv which totally blows what that 2014 G23 could be doing today out of the water... if i would have purchased the G i would still be stuck in it today financially. So consider that the technology is changing so rapidly for surf waves every few years you may want to consider saving some mula to leave you the ability to upgrade (within warranty periods) vs going all out on a boat that will have out-dated technology within a few years...

anyhow sorry for the long rambling on... good luck....another 1st world problem at least! 

I think wakeboarding for older guys like me are definitely moving towards surfing.  Although,  I still enjoy a set with good water.  Make no mistake there are plenty of youngsters out there killing it on wakeboards.  I don't think anyone should not consider the wakeboard wake is not important in the entire package when looking for a boat.  The key is to find one that does both disciplines very well.  This is the sole reason I keep coming back to a Malibu.

[willyt]

Non-bu owner perspective - first: 22vlx vs G21. You have to get the vlx up to the limit of what it'll get on plane with the 350, but yeah, their wakeboard wakes are pretty darn close, both amazing wakes. From what I've seen, I'd say the vlx has the better surf wave.

X10 has a fantastic surf wave. Wakeboard wake, not so much. 

Surfgate steering pull? Absolutely. When really tanked it definitely yanks on the steering. Why bu hasn't thought to put hydraulic steering on their surfgated boats is beyond me... would totally fix the issue. 

Wedge? I didn't notice the affect so much before PW2, but yes, wedge is a super useful tool. Does it burn more gas? I donno, the 22 I ride behind sure seems to use a lot of gas, but anything putting out that big of a wake I would expect to. 

 

Btw, hunter77ah - the type of bow has nothing to do with the wakeboard wake, nothing at all.  

Interesting thoughts on the MXZ. We used to have one that ran around here with the LSA, and we would TANK it. General consensus was that it was a huge wake, but missing the lip. Could have been a wedge malfunction... not sure. 

[wakerider107]

They are all good boats and all will perform well.

The big question, in my opinion, is which dealer is going to service you better after the sale?

[IXFE]

@willyt hydraulic steering is an option on Bu's 

[willyt]

3 hours ago, IXFE said:

@willyt hydraulic steering is an option on Bu's 

Ah, well there ya go!

[ConnollyCrew]

On 10/20/2016 at 1:48 PM, bbattiste247 said:

- Malibu is really hard to drive when surfing starboard, if you let go of the wheel it pulls hard (is this true, and if so, is it really a negative?)

 

I have found on a 2016 23 lsv that the port side or regular surfer it is hard to drive. When surfgate is deployed with a regular surfer, it is difficult to turn the boat. My son surfs regular and likes me to get closer to shore, but when we are headed directly towards shore, I sometimes have to drop him and shut off surfgate to turn. 

Your are turning the wrong way man! Always turn AWAY from the wake.

Edited October 23, 2016 by ConnollyCrew

[Stevo]

7 minutes ago, ConnollyCrew said:

Your are turning the wrong way man!

Turn to the opposite side of your rider

[ConnollyCrew]

Just now, Stevo said:

Turn to the opposite side of your rider

Beat me to it, ??

[bbattiste247]

4 hours ago, ConnollyCrew said:

Your are turning the wrong way man! Always turn AWAY from the wake.

When surfgate is deployed, the boat won't turn away from the rider or the wave, and when I turn toward the wake, prop rotation limits it. Maybe something is wrong with my boat, but it doesn't turn either way well man!

[Josh4mc]

40 minutes ago, bbattiste247 said:

When surfgate is deployed, the boat won't turn away from the rider or the wave, and when I turn toward the wake, prop rotation limits it. Maybe something is wrong with my boat, but it doesn't turn either way well man!

Next time out when the rider falls hit center on the surfgate. Now you can turn either way.

[Stevo]

14 hours ago, ConnollyCrew said:

Beat me to it, ??

 

10 hours ago, bbattiste247 said:

When surfgate is deployed, the boat won't turn away from the rider or the wave, and when I turn toward the wake, prop rotation limits it. Maybe something is wrong with my boat, but it doesn't turn either way well man!

 

9 hours ago, Josh4mc said:

Next time out when the rider falls hit center on the surfgate. Now you can turn either way

Assume regular rider... Rider falls , turn the wheel to the right as you cut the throttle, let the wave pass and circle back to the rider.

if you are trying to turn under power we have bigger problems.

if you are talking about making a sweeping oh hard left turn while regular surfing wel yes you are fighting against the prop rotation and a gate sticking to of the opposite side of the boat.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Stevo

[ConnollyCrew]

5 hours ago, bbattiste247 said:

When surfgate is deployed, the boat won't turn away from the rider or the wave, and when I turn toward the wake, prop rotation limits it. Maybe something is wrong with my boat, but it doesn't turn either way well man!

Hmmmmm, mine turns fine when I turn away from the wake...I would def keep an eye on this...

When I am surfing the weight does make her a pig, but my boat handles no different than any other loaded surf boat. 

 

[ahopkins22LSV]

3 hours ago, Stevo said:

 

 

Assume regular rider... Rider falls , turn the wheel to the left as you cut the throttle, let the wave pass and circle back to the rider.

if you are trying to turn under power we have bigger problems.

if you are talking about making a sweeping oh hard left turn while regular surfing wel yes you are fighting against the prop rotation and a gate sticking to of the opposite side of the boat.

You turn into the surf side? Not the opposite?

But, @bbattiste247 I agree with the posts above. You should be able to full turn with out issue loaded up. I wonder if you rudder arm is hitting something now allowing it to fully rotate. 

[Fman]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:48 AM, bbattiste247 said:

- Malibu is really hard to drive when surfing starboard, if you let go of the wheel it pulls hard (is this true, and if so, is it really a negative?)

 

I have found on a 2016 23 lsv that the port side or regular surfer it is hard to drive. When surfgate is deployed with a regular surfer, it is difficult to turn the boat. My son surfs regular and likes me to get closer to shore, but when we are headed directly towards shore, I sometimes have to drop him and shut off surfgate to turn. 

That almost sounds like you have a gate not retracting all the way, next time this happens look at the gates and make sure they are retracting back.  It is definitely super difficult to turn around if that gate is sticking out, they should retract back below 7 mph.  If there is a gate sticking out recalibrate with your 7" screen and it should take care of the problem.  I can definitely feel a difference in wheel pressure from goofy and regular surfing, my guess is the prop torque/rotation causing a difference.  Again, my wife tows us all the time and she has no issues with turing around or being able to hold the wheel while surfing and even doing transfers.