$79,995 - The Official 2017 21VLX Thread

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, MadMan said:

Traveling at 26 mph you would get there sooner and burn less fuel. Win-Win.

My definition economical is purely based on cost per distance, same as a car.  And I have cars that are basically used for entertainment also, I would rate them the same way.

Well your definition doesn’t match that of the majority of boat owners or the publication in question. 

Seriously, when was the last time you got in your boat with the intention of going somewhere specific?

[oldjeep]

8 minutes ago, IXFE said:

 

Seriously, when was the last time you got in your boat with the intention of going somewhere specific?

Constantly.  It is a couple mile run to one of our ski spots from the launch. Now we are running more like 35 to 40 mph on the way there.  If we are in wayzata it can be a 10 mile run back to the launch. 

[bamaboy]

On 2/1/2018 at 10:19 AM, Fman said:

I am a huge advocate on the surf pipe option, we do a lot of cancer research in my profession and CO is top of the list for causing many different kinds of cancer.  I can't really see any reason why someone would not order it, is it worth the risk and exposure to your family and friends for less than a 1k?  

Ok I will bite.  

 

What types of cancer and can you post a link to some of this data?  

 

I'm not saying it isn't accurate, I just have never heard of any link between carbon monoxide and cancer.  The nastiness that often comes with carbon monoxide sure but not CO itself.  I'm open to new data though.  

[MadMan]

10 hours ago, IXFE said:

Seriously, when was the last time you got in your boat with the intention of going somewhere specific?

100% of the time we go out.

[MadMan]

10 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

You just quoted me were I used data and math, which you have yet to even attempted to use, to prove to you that you get there 20 seconds sooner (traveling a mile) and burn 1.7 gallons MORE fuel. It is not a win-win. Not even close. It’s a winish-lose big time.

Wow...

Check your math, you'd travel 6 miles further in that hour burning an additional 1.7 gallons.  Or looking at it another way, to travel 26 miles at 26 mph would take an hour, at 20 mph it would take an additional 18 minutes and use an additional .3 gallons of fuel.  Cruising at 20 mph is lose-lose.

[IXFE]

We get in the water, fill the tanks, and ride!  

The longer I’m in the water without filling up, the more efficient I consider the boat. Boats are for fun, not getting to a destination (like your car). Commuting a few minutes to your riding spot doesn’t really count. 

But what do I know...?  10 years on the forum, hundreds of posts/threads about GPH, and this is literally first time I’ve ever heard anybody reference MPG on a boat. 

The way you guys talk I’d swear we were on the Prius forum. 

[oldjeep]

25 minutes ago, IXFE said:

We get in the water, fill the tanks, and ride!  

The longer I’m in the water without filling up, the more efficient I consider the boat. Boats are for fun, not getting to a destination (like your car). Commuting a few minutes to your riding spot doesn’t really count. 

But what do I know...?  10 years on the forum, hundreds of posts/threads about GPH, and this is literally first time I’ve ever heard anybody reference MPG on a boat. 

The way you guys talk I’d swear we were on the Prius forum. 

Our boats go 45-50 mph:)  It matters less in boats that are intentionally designed to plow water.  And folks who cannot afford 100k boats every year actually worry about their fuel dollars. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by oldjeep

[IXFE]

2 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Our boats go 45-50 mph:)  It matters less in boats that are intentionally designed to plow water.  And folks who cannot afford 100k boats every year actually worry about their fuel dollars. 

Now we’re talking about top speed?  Still doesn’t  help me see why you’d care more about MPG over GPH.  

Anyway... why don’t you post up your MPG results for the last few seasons.  I mean, you’re sweating every drop of fuel so surely you’re tracking this in a spreadsheet, right?  Let’s see it...

[Fman]

7 hours ago, bamaboy said:

Ok I will bite.  

 

What types of cancer and can you post a link to some of this data?  

 

I'm not saying it isn't accurate, I just have never heard of any link between carbon monoxide and cancer.  The nastiness that often comes with carbon monoxide sure but not CO itself.  I'm open to new data though.  

The IAFF did extensive studies on cancer related deaths to firefighters in the country.  Exhaust fumes  (everything that is released from engine combustion including CO) were related to FF cancer deaths throughout the country.  The most prevalent was lung cancer.  I don't have the actual document it was sent out to us years ago when they were installing the exhaust extraction systems. 

There is a reason every firehouse in the country has installed exhaust extraction systems that directly hook up to the exhaust pipes and extract fumes out of the apparatus room.  Prior to this system apparatus would start up and emit exhaust fumes in the apparatus room.  This system was designed for both gas and diesel engines.  Diesels emit a higher level of Benzyne than gas engines especially at startup when engine is cold.  However, there is still benzyne released in gasoline engines.

"Carbon monoxide poisoning is the leading cause of death due to poisoning in the United States. Headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, blurred vision, confusion, chest pain, weakness, heart failure, difficulty breathing, seizures and coma have been reported in people inhaling carbon monoxide."

"Gasoline, motor vehicle exhaust and industrial emissions are major sources of benzene in the air."

Couple good articles

https://www.scienceabc.com/humans/why-are-vehicles-exhaust-fumes-harmful-to-humans.html

https://www.p65warnings.ca.gov/fact-sheets/benzene

Doc, I should also clarify Benzyne is much worse than CO relating to cancer.  Benzyne produces a variety of different cancers.

I am also a realist, everyone is exposed to these products throughout there life it is impossible to avoid them.  However, when you have the opportunity to limit the exposure (surf pipe) seems like a no brainer to me.  My preaching of CO causing cancer was generalized with all exhaust fumes releasing poisonous gases.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Fman

[isellacuras]

2 hours ago, Fman said:

The IAFF did extensive studies on cancer related deaths to firefighters in the country.  Exhaust fumes  (everything that is released from engine combustion including CO) were related to FF cancer deaths throughout the country.  The most prevalent was lung cancer.  I don't have the actual document it was sent out to us years ago when they were installing the exhaust extraction systems. 

There is a reason every firehouse in the country has installed exhaust extraction systems that directly hook up to the exhaust pipes and extract fumes out of the apparatus room.  Prior to this system apparatus would start up and emit exhaust fumes in the apparatus room.  This system was designed for both gas and diesel engines.  Diesels emit a higher level of Benzyne than gas engines especially at startup when engine is cold.  However, there is still benzyne released in gasoline engines.

"Carbon monoxide poisoning is the leading cause of death due to poisoning in the United States. Headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, blurred vision, confusion, chest pain, weakness, heart failure, difficulty breathing, seizures and coma have been reported in people inhaling carbon monoxide."

"Gasoline, motor vehicle exhaust and industrial emissions are major sources of benzene in the air."

 

 

I get that cO2 is bad but i think surfing behind a boat is the least of our worries and especially yours. Breathing the toxic fumes of a burning house, car, meth lab....whatever, is going to be much worse than a boat motor with a catalytic converter. It's not like you're running a boat indoors or toking off the tail pipe. The fumes have got to be in such low concentration that i doubt you could pin long term health risks to inhalation of cO2 gas from surfing. I get that surfpipe "may" help but i have not, nor have any of my crew, experienced any of the symptoms mentioned in your post unless they were alcohol induced. I mean how far do you go?  Next we'll be talking about wearing gas masks while surfing. I'm considering fae but it's for a stereo mod more than a health benefit. 

[ahopkins22LSV]

9 hours ago, IXFE said:

We get in the water, fill the tanks, and ride!  

The longer I’m in the water without filling up, the more efficient I consider the boat. Boats are for fun, not getting to a destination (like your car). Commuting a few minutes to your riding spot doesn’t really count. 

But what do I know...?  10 years on the forum, hundreds of posts/threads about GPH, and this is literally first time I’ve ever heard anybody reference MPG on a boat. 

The way you guys talk I’d swear we were on the Prius forum. 

This. x100. If you really care about how far you can cruise for hours and hours, you guys own the wrong boat. I suggest a maybe a sailboat? Infinity mpg... unless there is no wind  

Edited February 11, 2018 by ahopkinsTXi

[shawndoggy]

Is it winter yet?

[ahopkins22LSV]

9 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Is it winter yet?

12-14" of snow in the past three days ...

[bamaboy]

9 hours ago, Fman said:

Doc, I should also clarify Benzyne is much worse than CO relating to cancer.  Benzyne produces a variety of different cancers.

I am also a realist, everyone is exposed to these products throughout there life it is impossible to avoid them.  However, when you have the opportunity to limit the exposure (surf pipe) seems like a no brainer to me.  My preaching of CO causing cancer was generalized with all exhaust fumes releasing poisonous gases.

Makes sense and answers my questions.  I was slightly confused by the CO/cancer link but in the context of general exhaust fumes is logical.  I'm glad there is so much research going into this area.  Good basic science research like this can be extrapolated to many different fields and is very valuable. 

By the way, I'm with you on the surf pipe.  Seems like a no brainer.  I highly doubt the spray affects the wave or wake at all but to each his own.  

[Stevo]

What do you think the CO reduction is using surf pipe, vs FAE vs Turn down tips vs Flaps?

i had flaps on my 01, 14 and have turn downs on my 17. Can’t say we’ve ever had anyone get sick fatigued or get a headache that wasn’t self induced.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Stevo

[Stevo]

12 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Our boats go 45-50 mph:)  It matters less in boats that are intentionally designed to plow water.  And folks who cannot afford 100k boats every year actually worry about their fuel dollars. 

Well then by that argument and the table above you are not being very smart with your Fuel economy. Going 40mph and WOT makes for poor MPG. 

[KeepingupwiththeJones]

 

24 minutes ago, Stevo said:

What do you think the CO reduction is using surf pipe, vs FAE vs Turn down tips vs Flaps?

i had flaps on my 01, 14 and have turn downs on my 17. Can’t say we’ve ever had anyone get sick fatigued or get a headache that wasn’t self induced.

Watching the exhaust roll over the transom and back into the boat last time I surfed made me think I have to do something. I have flaps now but I don’t like watching kids wave the fumes away from their faces while I surf.

[Fman]

15 hours ago, isellacuras said:

I get that cO2 is bad but i think surfing behind a boat is the least of our worries and especially yours. Breathing the toxic fumes of a burning house, car, meth lab....whatever, is going to be much worse than a boat motor with a catalytic converter. It's not like you're running a boat indoors or toking off the tail pipe. The fumes have got to be in such low concentration that i doubt you could pin long term health risks to inhalation of cO2 gas from surfing. I get that surfpipe "may" help but i have not, nor have any of my crew, experienced any of the symptoms mentioned in your post unless they were alcohol induced. I mean how far do you go?  Next we'll be talking about wearing gas masks while surfing. I'm considering fae but it's for a stereo mod more than a health benefit. 

I am definitely more sensitive to this subject than most because of my profession.  It is constantly being put in our face because of the high cancer rates.

At what rate you actually absorb the toxins in your body surfing is difficult to determine with many environmental  factors (wind, engine condition, surf speed, etc).  With my profession it is all about limiting your exposure at any dose to harmful fumes which is what the surf pipe does help accomplish.

There are no guarantees with anything but for me it is about limiting exposure for myself, family and friends.  The reduction in exhaust noise is also another benefit.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Fman

[hethj7]

I have turn down tips and have never noticed fumes.  Not saying they aren’t there, but certainly not something so noticeable that it bugs us.  I don’t even know if the tips are under water at surf speeds though.  I always mean to look, but never remember too.  

[G Spot]

All you guys bickering about fuel efficiency are cracking me up. The obvious answer is in the low RPM range of our engines. According to the chart referenced earlier, at an RPM of 1k, GPH is < 1 and MPG is > 7. It's win / win --- IXFE gets lots of time on the water for FUN and MadMan gets the lowest cost per mile (not caring for engine hours, oil changes, etc.).

That being said, the only time I get concerned about fuel efficiency on my boat is when the gauge is on E and I'm still miles from the marina.

Carry on. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by G Spot

[WhiteWaterWeb]

Thanks D_Turner - that Drop n Fill looks really interesting. I don't mind the extra workout lugging gas around but this makes filling super easy. Thanks again for sharing.

On another note I only asked about fuel consumption as you see a lot of competitor videos out there trying to say Malibu consumes like twice the fuel as boats like Mastercraft or Centurion. I just find that all very hard to believe (twice the fuel!).

[Nitrousbird]

Are the '18 models still 80k?  If so, why would anyone buy a '17?  The used ones seemed to be priced too close to justify buying used.

[ahopkins22LSV]

3 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

Are the '18 models still 80k?  If so, why would anyone buy a '17?  The used ones seemed to be priced too close to justify buying used.

Yes they are. The 17’s I’ve seen that are still new are discounted a few grand. Used are about 76/77. 

I’d buy a 17 for 77 if the colors were right. Might as well save some money. 

[Nitrousbird]

Just now, ahopkinsTXi said:

Yes they are. The 17’s I’ve seen that are still new are discounted a few grand. Used are about 76/77. 

I’d buy a 17 for 77 if the colors were right. Might as well save some money. 

But in a couple years, everything equal, that '18 will likely be worth 3k more, so it would be a wash.

[ahopkins22LSV]

14 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

But in a couple years, everything equal, that '18 will likely be worth 3k more, so it would be a wash.

Yeah I guess, but most are looking to save up front. We also have no idea what the market is going to do in three - five years. I’d rather save the money up front if possible.