$79,995 - The Official 2017 21VLX Thread

[boardjnky4]

2 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Yep...but I wouldn't say its "constant" rotation of new molds.  But sure I realize they don't last forever.  But I also have no idea where they're keeping them if they have more than I've observed.  Some are up at the trailer area, yes, but did you see an extra square inch on the factory floor?  I didn't.

I can't agree with your paraphrasing of my position, as I don't think their capacity is permanently fixed, but I will absolutely stand by my prediction that 21 VLX sales will cannibalize higher priced offerings (which, by definition, every other Malibu model is).

Actually, I get the sense that Malibu is hoping it will cannibalize some Axis sales. Also allows them to experiment with cutting back and dropping prices. Right now, high end boats are selling well, but it's a bubble. It won't last forever. At some point, they're volume is going to go down and at that point in time, they are going to need to bring prices down to move boats.

Edited August 11, 2016 by boardjnky4

[DarkSide]

2 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Yep...but I wouldn't say its "constant" rotation of new molds.  But sure I realize they don't last forever.  But I also have no idea where they're keeping them if they have more than I've observed.  Some are up at the trailer area, yes, but did you see an extra square inch on the factory floor?  I didn't.

I can't agree with your paraphrasing of my position, as I don't think their capacity is permanently fixed, but I will absolutely stand by my prediction that 21 VLX sales will cannibalize higher priced offerings (which, by definition, every other Malibu model is).

However it will likely also cannibalize t22 orders so should be a wash

[85 Barefoot]

Just now, IXFE said:

We agree on this... the naming was a mistake, imho.  

This boat was designed to take share from mid-tier boats like Supreme, MB, Moomba, etc.  I doubt very much Malibu ever thought it would cannibalize sales of the 20 VTX or the 22 VLX.  Even if it does, I'm not sure that's a bad thing (for Malibu).  Who says the margins on the 21 VLX are worse than those other boats?  We don't know that.  I suspect they are similar.  

Two responses:

1) if they were similar, then logic would lend that margins are also similar across the Axis and Malibu lines.  We know that's not correct, and that in fact Malibu has acknowledged it saw a higher recent  Axis mix than expected and wanted the mix to move back to (higher profit margin) Malibu (I'm paraphrasing).  

2) If they are, then what the heck are they doing telling dealers the price of the boat?  If Malibu is just as content selling a 21 as it is a 25, then let dealers charge what the market will pay.  That's hurting your dealers' margins for no reason.  In my opinion, Malibu is talking about the price of course because they want to drive more volume to make up for the relative lack of margin on the 21.

[IXFE]

Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

Yep...but I wouldn't say its "constant" rotation of new molds.  But sure I realize they don't last forever.  But I also have no idea where they're keeping them if they have more than I've observed.  Some are up at the trailer area, yes, but did you see an extra square inch on the factory floor?  I didn't.

I can't agree with your paraphrasing of my position, as I don't think their capacity is permanently fixed, but I will absolutely stand by my prediction that 21 VLX sales will cannibalize higher priced offerings (which, by definition, every other Malibu model is).

 

Just now, DarkSide said:

One other note on capacity, remember the factory only works 4 days a week except in VERY busy times like just before boat show season.  So adding a 5th workday, boom instant capacity.

 

Darkside is right... there is an entire day they don't use.  Add Friday back and you get 25% increase in capacity with the same building, molds, people, spray booths, etc.

The extra molds are all sitting outside (between the building and the river).  When I was there I several sitting outside.  

[85 Barefoot]

9 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

One other note on capacity, remember the factory only works 4 days a week except in VERY busy times like just before boat show season.  So adding a 5th workday, boom instant capacity.

My understanding is that they might not spray on friday so it doesn't sit in the mold all weekend, but that other areas are online.  Could be wrong, but either way they don't think it makes sense to increase that capacity.

Who's got Ritchie Anderson's cell?!

6 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

Actually, I get the sense that Malibu is hoping it will cannibalize some Axis sales. Also allows them to experiment with cutting back and dropping prices. Right now, high end boats are selling well, but it's a bubble. It won't last forever. At some point, they're volume is going to go down and at that point in time, they are going to need to bring prices down to move boats.

You are absolutely right, Malibu has said as much publicly.  And, for sure, it will cannibalize some Axis sales, but there's going to be a lot of people who sit in this 21, 22, and 23 LSV and say, that 21 can save me how much?  SOLD.

Edited August 11, 2016 by 85 Barefoot

[IXFE]

Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

That's not my understanding.  My understanding is that they might not spray on friday so it doesn't sit in the mold all weekend, but that other areas are online.

Who's got Ritchie Anderson's cell?!

He's probably reading this thread just laughing at us...

[NWBU]

18 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

One other note on capacity, remember the factory only works 4 days a week except in VERY busy times like just before boat show season.  So adding a 5th workday, boom instant capacity.

I was just about to ask if the 4 day production week was still the case. Besides adding Friday, you still have the weekend capacity if needed (and nights...).

Edited August 11, 2016 by NWBU

[minnmarker]

3 minutes ago, IXFE said:

He's probably reading this thread just laughing at us...

10 pages of this thread are enough.  He probably had his laugh a long time ago and wonders why we don't have anything better to do.  Just my humble opinion

[85 Barefoot]

My time is more efficient spent trying to salvage my boat's value than working 

[boardjnky4]

13 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

You are absolutely right, Malibu has said as much publicly.  And, for sure, it will cannibalize some Axis sales, but there's going to be a lot of people who sit in this 21, 22, and 23 LSV and say, that 21 can save me how much?  SOLD.

yeah, and those same people have been sitting in T-series and A-series Axis boats and saying the same thing. At the end of the day, it might be a SLIGHTLY risky move. Nobody can predict with certainty what the consumer will do.

My opinion? It's going to be negligible from a cannibalizing standpoint. I'm just glad that SOME manufacturer has attempted to bring prices back to reality in some way.

[85 Barefoot]

13 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

yeah, and those same people have been sitting in T-series and A-series Axis boats and saying the same thing. At the end of the day, it might be a SLIGHTLY risky move. Nobody can predict with certainty what the consumer will do.

My opinion? It's going to be negligible from a cannibalizing standpoint. I'm just glad that SOME manufacturer has attempted to bring prices back to reality in some way.

Guys, net income per unit is around $6,000.  I think people have this perception that there's all sorts of profit in these things for Malibu and they're sticking it to us with prices.  They're not.  In fact, pricing seems pretty lean, really.  These things cost a lot to build.

[boardjnky4]

10 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Guys, net income per unit is around $6,000.  I think people have this perception that there's all sorts of profit in these things for Malibu and they're sticking it to us with prices.  They're not.  In fact, pricing seems pretty lean, really.  These things cost a lot to build.

Oh I agree. But at the end of the day, they need to find SOME way to bring the prices down. If they don't, then they are not future-proofing themselves appropriately. Plain and simple.

[IXFE]

14 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

Guys, net income per unit is around $6,000.  I think people have this perception that there's all sorts of profit in these things for Malibu and they're sticking it to us with prices.  They're not.  In fact, pricing seems pretty lean, really.  These things cost a lot to build.

I'm glad to see that somebody is reading the MBUU thread.  Do you know why I started that thread years ago???  It was to prove the very point you just reiterated above

Boat prices are high because costs are high.  These boats ain't cheap to build.  Margins aren't as fat as people assume.  It's hardware, afterall!  You want fat margins, get into the software or services industries.  Very few companies fat margins on hardware.  Why do you think IBM sold all it's hardware divisions to Lenovo (a Chinese company)?  IBM is all software and services now.  For a counterpoint, let's look at HP... instead of buying PWC Consulting in 2001, then CEO Carly Fiorini bought another PC company (Compaq).  Whoops!  That company has never recovered.  

I don't know why I just slipped into a tech industry discussion... sorry

[Afun]

1 hour ago, NWBU said:

I was just about to ask if the 4 day production week was still the case. Besides adding Friday, you still have the weekend capacity if needed (and nights...).

Saturday Builds....eh?

Hunt's Car was built on Saturday...

 

[SkiRideDrive]

Just to add fuel to the fire, if the Malibu boats only make $6,000, how is it possible for a manufacturer like moomba (or even Axis) for example, to make a wake boat at such a lower price point? Also keep in mind that Malibu makes significantly more boats per year, and thus should have economies of scale on their side in both manufacturing, and in procurement from vendors. Are the cost of materials and hardware that different? I'm not saying the 6,000 number is wrong, I'm just curious what other factors are at work here.   

[IXFE]

Just now, SkiRideDrive said:

Just to add fuel to the fire, if the Malibu boats only make $6,000, how is it possible for a manufacturer like moomba (or even Axis) for example, to make a wake boat at such a lower price point? Also keep in mind that Malibu makes significantly more boats per year, and thus should have economies of scale on their side in both manufacturing, and in procurement from vendors. Are the cost of materials and hardware that different? I'm not saying the 6,000 number is wrong, I'm just curious what other factors are at work here.   

You're new here... go read the MBUU thread.  Then let's discuss.

54 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

My time is more efficient spent trying to salvage my boat's value than working 

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

[DarkSide]

Just now, IXFE said:

 

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

Now you gots me scared

[23LSVOwner]

4 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

[teamerickson]

5 minutes ago, IXFE said:

You're new here... go read the MBUU thread.  Then let's discuss.

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

Aaaaahhhh! What? I'm currently planning a major upgrade! Insider info!

[oldjeep]

12 minutes ago, IXFE said:

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

I was right? They are burning the 2016 VTX molds?   Or maybe introducing the 2017 VTX "classic"

Edited August 11, 2016 by oldjeep

[DarkSide]

Hopefully they are getting rid of the inflated MSRP and doing a real MSRP across the entire line.

[jwl019]

15 minutes ago, IXFE said:

 

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

They are building a 22.5' reduced price LSV in the $82k-84k range?  Sign me up for one!

[95echelon]

16 minutes ago, IXFE said:

You're new here... go read the MBUU thread.  Then let's discuss.

I just heard something that is going to make you way way way more upset than the 21 VLX.  It will hit TMC in time, and the thread will be epic.  

Hope you weren't' planning on getting much work done.

23 VLX  I want all of the features and pricepoint of that 21 in a 23. I would make my 05 a one year boat and dust off my checkbook at the boat show for that.

Gimme: Unfinished walkway and seadeck rear facing seats. Front batteries and storage that goes both ways, bare fiberglass all over, G3.5 tower, boring non matched trailer, and just two rev 8's and one sub for 85-90 and I am in.

[hethj7]

Do any of you work or does posting on TMC bring in enough cash to afford these toys? ?  I am enjoying the read over lunch!

[DarkSide]

I am on a week long conference call.....ugh!