Will this fat sac idea work?

[WakeGirl]

Ebay is the best place to get one for a good price, my problem is that I can't figure out which model to get (I think that there are both 12v & 24v & they don't often specify what they're selling).

[chathamsolutions]

You'd be surprised at the extra space w/out the hard tanks. Lots of stuff fit back there w/out the tanks

No arguement here.

But I want MORE ballast - not less.

[smedman]

I think that to address that second issue, I would redirect the plumbing rather than splitting it. So I would take the hose off of the vent for the tank & put that on the top valve for the bag, then put a line from the other top valve on the bag & run that to the vent. Because you'd be filling the bag from the overflow of the tank & it would fill after the tank is completely full, you should be able to see when the tank is full & cut the pump if you don't want to fill the bag.

Tracy -- I think you've nailed it with this additional idea of rerouting the overflow from the tank to the sac.

Or as Beau mentioned - adding electronic valves -- then when the overflow begins to flow from the tank, you could just switch the flip on your dash and redirect all the inflow to the sack... then benefit of that is that you'd know when your tank is full (unless your boat has the ballast gauges - and then in that case I guess you are set anyway)

[Beau]

to make sure all our sacs completely fill with water, as opposed to air, we have vented those sacs on the top on one end. then we 'load' , or weight, the other end so that all the air is forced to the vent end. When we started this we were really surprised at how much of those sacks were filled with air.

[chathamsolutions]

Okay, here's what you need then:

2 - Fly High Pro X Fat Sac

Each sack should come with 1 of these quick connects that you'll use for the pumps (attached to the bag):

W730

These fittings will screw on to the empty pumps & connect with the above fittings, creating a quick connect system:

2 - W732

For the fill & overflow lines, you'll need these:

4 - W736 - attached to the bag

4 - W740 or (depending on whether or not you need an elbow) W742

This system will make it very easy to pull the bags out to let everything dry out & all of those fittings will go right into your existing lines. As SRR mentioned, you may need to extend the empty line depending on placement, but you can easily find 3/4" braided tubing at either Home Depot or Lowe's. Wakeside has all of these fittings as well, but with the Buywake 20% off code plus free shipping over $100, it's a better deal through Buywake.

Tracie - thanks for this breakdown

I was hoping you (or anyone that wants to throw it out there) could give me a bit more info on how the fill & overflow hookups will work?

This is really going to show my ineptitude at this:

If all the fittings on the pumps are the same and the fittings on the sacs are the same - why do I need different pieces? Does it have to do with directional flow?

I'm pulling the trigger this weekend, so just want to make sure I purchase the right pieces so when I get it all together I'll be as close to making it work as possible.

Thanks.

[WakeGirl]

If all the fittings on the pumps are the same and the fittings on the sacs are the same - why do I need different pieces? Does it have to do with directional flow?

Because the system that they use for attaching the sack to threaded pieces is different than the system that they use for barbed. So the pieces that work with the pumps & attach them to the sack won't work with the pieces that attach the hoses to the sack. Does that make sense?

I think that the list above that I compiled was put together based on pulling the tanks out (can't remember for sure, it's been a while). Are you thinking about doing that now? If not & depending on how you want to add the sacks to the system, your list will probably be different.

[chathamsolutions]

I'm going to try and leave the hard tanks in.

T off the existing FILL line, DRAIN line, VENT line.

Put the 750lb Fly-Hi sacs right next to the hard tanks.

[WakeGirl]

Can you forsee a situation where you would want to use the tank but not the bag?

[WaveMake'nLSV]

Wonder how much they would weigh?

ST

For a project, Id take out the hard tanks, and get 2 custom fat sacs from boarders paradise to fit in the locker. but that's just what id do...

[ACE]

Can you forsee a situation where you would want to use the tank but not the bag?

The only time that I could see leaving the hard tanks in is if my wife (not the high flyer) would want to just fill each hard tank, but not more.

Mason

[chathamsolutions]

Can you forsee a situation where you would want to use the tank but not the bag?

For wakeboarding I'm happy with the ballast I have right now.

I only want the additional ballast for surfing - and I want it to be automatic.

So, to answer your Q, I would only need the original weight when I was wakeboarding. I wouldn't need additional weight then. And I'm the only one that needs it. Most of the people I ride with are happy with less weight.

Man, the wake in the LSV is da bomb!

[WakeGirl]

Okay, in that case all of the connections that you'll need will be the same. It only differs if you're going to be hooking a pump up directly to the bag, but you won't be doing that so in some ways it simplifies things. I would highly recommend doing it the way that I explained earlier though, given the fact that there are situations where you'll want the bag empty. By t-ing off of the fill line, you won't be able to easily control that. But if you just re-route the vent line that comes off of the tank & attach that to the top of the bag, then run a line from the other top valve on the bag to the vent in the side of the boat, you'll be able to somewhat easily control that.

On the empty side, I think that you'll need to re-plumb it a little bit because I think that the pump is attached directly to the tank. So that means that you'll probably need to add a small length of line to the tank that goes to the tee (the smaller the better, you don't want to mess with potential prime problems). For the line that will come from the bag to that tee, I recommend installing a check valve on that one, just so you don't have water that you're trying to drain from the tank empy back into the bag in situations where the bag is empty.

So basically you'll just need this:

2 - Fly High Pro X Fat Sac

6 - W736 - attached to the bag

6 - W740 or (depending on whether or not you need an elbow) W742

Both the W740s & W 742s serve the same purpose. The barb attaches to the tubing & then the black piece slides down & attaches over the W736 (attached to the bag), with the red clip sliding down to lock it in place. So you need a total of 6 of those, but whether you get the straight 740 or the 90 degree 742 is up to you. You'll also need 3/4" tubing, not sure how much but I wouldn't think that you'll need a whole bunch since the longest run that you'll be making will be the overflow line that you'll be adding. You'll also need 2 3/4" tees & like I said, a check valve on each empty line that goes from the bag to the tee would be recommended. They make a few different kinds, but I'd just look for the least restrictive type possible for that (there is one type that's usually brass that has a flapper inside of it - that would probably work the best, although you have to be careful of the orientation of the valve or it won't work correctly).

Does all of that make sense?

[chathamsolutions]

Thanks Tracie.

You and Jason (skicrave) have helped me with some big projects. I really appreciate it.

[WakeGirl]

Anytime. One thing that I thought of is the possibility of auto draining & it looks like in the other thread that Brad B has a fix for that.

[chathamsolutions]

Andy,

Just for grins, see if you can measure the amount of water in the bag before you put into the locker and again after you get it wedged in between the bulkhead and the hard tank/table. See if you can settle the opinions about if it will fill in the locker completely.

LINK

OK Ronnie:

You were right.

THIS:

DOES NOT fit in this:

I'm in the process of putting all the pieces together. And felt like I should look into the volume issue.

I did the math:

Full sack:

90 gallons

750.6lbs of water

I used a 20 gallon Rubbermaid to fill it. I had to fill the Rubbermaid 4.5 times - so 90 gallons really did fit in the sac.

I was only able to put 3.5ish garbage cans into the fat sac in the boat, with the hard tank IN. I had also pulled the plastic divider in the front of the locker. Had to, it barely fit with it pulled.

- What was crazy if how fast my 1100 hand help pump drained 20 gallons. It was about a minute to drain the whole garbage can. That thing sucks water out FAST.

3.5 garbage cans = 70 gallons

70 gallons = 583.8lbs of water

Here's what it looked like full (OK, almost full. I put in another 7+ gallons after this photo):

Sooooo. That means with my hard tank full, I'm getting:

Hard Tank: 200lbs

Fly High: 538lbs

TOTAL: 738lbs

Prior to this I was filling two 440lb sacs and putting them on top of each other in the locker. Obviously I wasn't getting the full 440lbs in there. There's no way. I'm now questioning whether those sacs actually will hold that much water. Like Ronnie said, I was probably only getting 500-600lbs in there.

So, do I pull the hard tank...

IF I'm only getting about 550 right now with my fat sacs and another 200 with my hard tank. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe I should just pull the tanks. I can always just put them back in later.

As you've all said, it'd be easier to do the plumbing if I pulled the hard tank.

- HOLY COW! I spent $100 just on the hardware for ONE SIDE!

So I think I will. I think I'll pull the hard tanks, plumb it all in and see how it goes. Try it out a handfull of times before next summer - when we get really serious boat time.

[jetskipro550]

Andy,

Just for grins, see if you can measure the amount of water in the bag before you put into the locker and again after you get it wedged in between the bulkhead and the hard tank/table. See if you can settle the opinions about if it will fill in the locker completely.

LINK

OK Ronnie:

You were right.

THIS:

DOES NOT fit in this:

I'm in the process of putting all the pieces together. And felt like I should look into the volume issue.

I did the math:

Full sack:

90 gallons

750.6lbs of water

I used a 20 gallon Rubbermaid to fill it. I had to fill the Rubbermaid 4.5 times - so 90 gallons really did fit in the sac.

I was only able to put 3.5ish garbage cans into the fat sac in the boat, with the hard tank IN. I had also pulled the plastic divider in the front of the locker. Had to, it barely fit with it pulled.

- What was crazy if how fast my 1100 hand help pump drained 20 gallons. It was about a minute to drain the whole garbage can. That thing sucks water out FAST.

3.5 garbage cans = 70 gallons

70 gallons = 583.8lbs of water

Here's what it looked like full (OK, almost full. I put in another 7+ gallons after this photo):

Sooooo. That means with my hard tank full, I'm getting:

Hard Tank: 200lbs

Fly High: 538lbs

TOTAL: 738lbs

Prior to this I was filling two 440lb sacs and putting them on top of each other in the locker. Obviously I wasn't getting the full 440lbs in there. There's no way. I'm now questioning whether those sacs actually will hold that much water. Like Ronnie said, I was probably only getting 500-600lbs in there.

So, do I pull the hard tank...

IF I'm only getting about 550 right now with my fat sacs and another 200 with my hard tank. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe I should just pull the tanks. I can always just put them back in later.

As you've all said, it'd be easier to do the plumbing if I pulled the hard tank.

- HOLY COW! I spent $100 just on the hardware for ONE SIDE!

So I think I will. I think I'll pull the hard tanks, plumb it all in and see how it goes. Try it out a handfull of times before next summer - when we get really serious boat time.

Its okay, you are just the kind of person that needs to learn from experiance....j/k

[WaveMake'nLSV]

Great right up! I appreciate the time you spent on doing it all with photographic evidence.

My thoughts are if you are going to pull the tanks, why not order a custom bag from

http://www.gethighsports.net/g-line.htm

If you gave them the specs for the locker back there, based on just the volume and weight of the 750#, I would be shocked if the custom bag didn't weigh 1000#.

Just a thought and keep up the good work!

Scott

[WakeGirl]

Andy,

I think that you & I are much more alike than I would have ever thought. I am the same way, with some things I just have to see it for myself with my own eyes before I'll believe that it won't work the way that I think it will.

Pulling the tanks is probably the best solution for you, both to simplify the installation as well as filling out the space to maximize the weight that you put in there. Scott suggests custom bags which would ideally be the best solution, but you may have to wait a bit to get them & they could be much spendier than what you can buy off the shelf. Have you considered pop bags to augment the weight? This is something that I keep thinking about. If I buy about 300-400lbs in pop bags that just stay in the boat, that's only the weight of a couple of people. They're easy to move around & you can pretty evenly distribute the weight in the boat when you're not trying to focus it for a specific thing (such as surfing). My plan is to keep it up front or at least midships to help with bowrise. Just a thought.

[WaveMake'nLSV]

I am told that custom bags are only $130 each. Only draw back *I* can see is the need/desire to partially fill both sides for wakeboarding. This would effectively take away both lockers for storage. Whereas, if you just want to augment the weight a little, as it is right now, you just fill the hard tanks and maintain your storage space, even if it is on a deflated bag.

I don't live on a private lake, so I plan to use the vdrive lockers to store stuff/personal items for the day.

Wakegirl...Not to be ignorant...but what are "pop bags"?

Knowing that I am trying to do the same thing here, the net effect would be the same as a partially full 750# if I just put 150# of lead in each locker and use the 400# vdrive locker bags? Basically Andy is about 750# with the partially full 750# and the 200# tank. May be just as easy to put lead in the rear that you can move around more easily and use the vdrive bags? Just brain storming...

I have the quad ballast system, so the rear locker is about all I have to store lead. I/E can't move forward in the boat if I wanted to run the rear "empty weighted". How much does a bag of lead weigh?

~Scott

Scott suggests custom bags which would ideally be the best solution, but you may have to wait a bit to get them & they could be much spendier than what you can buy off the shelf. Have you considered pop bags to augment the weight? This is something that I keep thinking about.

[Ronnie]

Scott, you have WAY more room than that. For surfing, I put 4 sacs on one side. One in the locker, one under the long seat, one on top of the long seat and one 1/2 way on the back of the long seat and the other half on the back seat. I don't put any more weight in the bow. It's not needed and just makes it chili-dip. You can surf two people on the same side, the wake is that long.

Do the custom bags have the nice fittings or are they waterbed fittings. Those fittings on the bags like Andy has are the reason they are so nice IMO. Much easier to plumb in. The 750 bags are too long for our boats though unless you stuff them under the front panel in the locker or you can trim that panel too to allow clearance.

The custom bag would be the way to go IF they were built like the ProX bags but I bet they are not.

[chathamsolutions]

Serious, the fittings are da bomb. You can see on the web site Scott posted above that the fittings aren't the Fly-High style.

Scott, can't tell you how BIG a difference the fittings make. So much easier to use and less water (equals less clean up time) in the boat. And most importantly more riding time.

I'm just going to pull the tanks and plumb them in. I'm going to see if I can find fittings to take my existing SL 440# sacs so I can put the Fly-High quick connect fittings on them. That'll allow me to use the extra sacs with the Fly High attachements if I need extra weight.

Tracie:

I don't mind the pop bag idea. My only concern is that it'll make a mess. Lead will rust right? In a porous bag, I can only see that being a nightmare of upkeep. I'd much rather have them in a bag than the bricks I see at my local shop. Much easier to move around and throw off the boat if we don't need it.

[chathamsolutions]

Another factors that I didn't metion in my post above; the fat sac was REALLY pushing hard on the plastic engine compartment divider. It was pushing so hard that the top of the divider was about 2 inches from the metal crossbar that it rests on. The center of the plastic was bowed so far in that the top was bowing away from the crossbar. It's some serious weight.

I'd have to put in some kind of support if I were to keep the hard tanks in.

[Ronnie]

Lead won't rust.

IIRC the pop bags are sealed and I'm not to sure they are lead, I think they are steel shot and that will rust if the vinyl bags busts. Someone that has them will know. Stusumm? Stewart?

Pop Bag website.

[WakeGirl]

Serious, the fittings are da bomb. You can see on the web site Scott posted above that the fittings aren't the Fly-High style.

Scott, can't tell you how BIG a difference the fittings make. So much easier to use and less water (equals less clean up time) in the boat. And most importantly more riding time.

I'm just going to pull the tanks and plumb them in. I'm going to see if I can find fittings to take my existing SL 440# sacs so I can put the Fly-High quick connect fittings on them. That'll allow me to use the extra sacs with the Fly High attachements if I need extra weight.

Tracie:

I don't mind the pop bag idea. My only concern is that it'll make a mess. Lead will rust right? In a porous bag, I can only see that being a nightmare of upkeep. I'd much rather have them in a bag than the bricks I see at my local shop. Much easier to move around and throw off the boat if we don't need it.

You should be able to just use fittings from Home Depot on the SL sacks that will go into tubing that you can adapt to the Fly High fittings. I agree, if there's any way to use those quick connect fittings, that's the way to go.

As for the pop bags, like Ronnie I was under the impression that the bag was sealed, but maybe I'm off base on that. I do like the idea of having it when we need it & being able to easily offload it when we don't.

Scott,

That's a very good price on custom bags, the only downside is that you can't use the Fly High quick connects on them without doing something similar to what I described for Andy's SL bags. Most fat sack manufacturers use a connection that requires that you use something like a blue waterbed fitting to adapt to it - not a good, tight connection IMO, they're prone to leaks & are pretty flimsy.

[Ronnie]

It's been a while since I looked at Stusumm's pop bags but it seems like they are in a durable canvas type bag with handles on them that is velcro sealed on the top. The sealed vinyl bag with the steel shot in it goes into the durable bag.