M235 - G Killer?

1,382 · July 29, 2016

1 minute ago, thtrog said:

With any boat look the stock ballast configuration and go from there, there's a reason the front ballast is 950# in G. You can't just throw 1500# in the trunk and expect good results, sure stock is better than that. Mine's the first gen hull and have 500# lead mid ship, mostly to level prop torque wakeboarding, but leave it the same for surf. FYI - I've run those same Leadwake bags in every boat I've owned the last 8 years. Above that I've only added people and everything gets better, not sure where the ceiling is...just having fun!

Yes we realized that bow weight might help out and make it better. We filled a belly bag on the floor alitttle bit, but we decided not to waste anymore time and get back to surfing what was a very good stock wave.

July 29, 2016

Just throwing out some question to this "stock" is the best way to go in a '16 g23...what happens when you start adding people? I mean...let's say I have 10 friends all weighing 200lbs each. Has any G owner said "hey get off my boat people, you are making my surf wave worse!"? Doubt it. There is a huge difference in ballast when there are 3 vs 10 (or 15!) people. That is where extra pnp bags can help replace weight that isn't there when your friends don't show up because you yelled at them last time for ruining the surf wave.

Just my humble opinion. Some day I wish I am able to afford having to make the decision between a G or an M.

13,578 · July 29, 2016

19 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

Who orders an M without PNP? It's basically required.

....

And the OP seems thrilled with no PNP.

3,012 · July 29, 2016

@Anderson24 the stock wave is so good you have everyone except an observer surfing at the same time. So as not to overweight the boat, you also refuel between sets, to maintain the 500 pounds of fuel.......

Seriously no one has ever said G is putting out bad wave, but there is improvement to be had over stock

Anderson makes a great point. On weekends I have 5-8 people on board, on weekday sunrise sessions it's 3. Losing 5 people is 1000 pounds, 1000 pounds makes a huge difference to your wake/wave.

Edited July 29, 2016 by DarkSide

1,177 · July 29, 2016

22 minutes ago, thtrog said:

With any boat look the stock ballast configuration and go from there, there's a reason the front ballast is 950# in G. You can't just throw 1500# in the trunk and expect good results, sure stock is better than that. Mine's the first gen hull and have 500# lead mid ship, mostly to level prop torque wakeboarding, but leave it the same for surf. FYI - I've run those same Leadwake bags in every boat I've owned the last 8 years. Above that I've only added people and everything gets better, not sure where the ceiling is...just having fun!

good point! It takes time to dial in ANY boat

2,552 · July 29, 2016

21 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

And the OP seems thrilled with no PNP.

I'm guessing there is a reason they didn't have PNP? Isn't that dude a dealer with an early boat? My guess is zero actual consumers that bought an M didn't have PNP. Nor would anyone on this site order it without PNP. It's an option just like surfgate is an option.

As for the 25 LSV running 4100 RPM, isn't that the bottom line? Stock from the factory it runs 4100 RPM surfing. That's not cool. Shouldn't have to tweak it that much to get the RPM down. Sounds like this may have changed for 2017 though? or is that just on the MXZ?

22 minutes ago, Anderson24 said:

Just throwing out some question to this "stock" is the best way to go in a '16 g23...what happens when you start adding people? I mean...let's say I have 10 friends all weighing 200lbs each. Has any G owner said "hey get off my boat people, you are making my surf wave worse!"? Doubt it. There is a huge difference in ballast when there are 3 vs 10 (or 15!) people. That is where extra pnp bags can help replace weight that isn't there when your friends don't show up because you yelled at them last time for ruining the surf wave.

Just my humble opinion. Some day I wish I am able to afford having to make the decision between a G or an M.

The wave was worse with 750s in the rear lockers and no bow weight. So if you put all your passengers in the rear lockers, I'm sure it would get worse.

The main point is not that the wave gets worse with additional weight. With people in the boat, I haven't noticed that. The point is that the wave is so good stock, it is unnecessary to add additional ballast.

Now, let me clarify. As stated before, the M wave is every bit as good with stock ballast. However, the "stock ballast" I demoed was with PNP, wedge, etc.

In my humble opinion (and it is just that----an opinion), the edge goes to the G because you retain all your storage with an equivalent surf wave.

Edited July 29, 2016 by bamaboy

1,816 · July 29, 2016

42 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

He means that if the wake is at its best with stock ballast, then that is the ceiling.

The M (or some other boat) might be good with stock ballast (maybe the same, maybe slightly better, maybe slightly worse), but that it gets better with plug and play and allows you to explore making it bigger.

Well, the G isn't anywhere near the ceiling either.........

26 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

Who orders an M without PNP? It's basically required.

Out of the dozen or so people that I have seen on PN that run a 2016 G23, this is first I have seen or heard of running even close to that weight. In fact, I talked with 1021 personally and he doesn't run this heavy of weight. Or at least he didn't say he did. I think he runs a bit extra scattered around but certainly not 2200 lbs extra on last check. Maybe 1021 can chime in on this. Perhaps he is running heavy weight and just didn't tell me. IDK.

Lots of guys definitely don't run above stock, and I can also say the 2016 G23 has the best completely stock wave I have ridden. I have not been behind an M235.

With a crew of 8+, I don't bother with PnP. With a short crew, I definitely like to add weight for a bigger wave. Mostly, I just like having the same huge wave every time. I have 4 bags in the boat that are all plumbed to jabsco pumps that are on timers. The front bags are under the helm and in the low section of the floor under the observer seat (made a flat floor under observer seat, and the bag is underneath. Essentially, both front bags are sub-floor, and hold 400lbs each). The rear bags are not in the rear compartments, they are under the lounge seats and hold about 300lbs each. My rear compartments, bow compartments, and behind observer seat are all open for storage.

MOST times, I have 4-5 people in the boat. During those times, I fill only the bags under the lounge seats. If there is 2-3 of us, I will fill the other bags. And obviously, we have filled it all, a time or two, with a bunch of people on the boat.

I had started out with twin 600s in the rear compartments and the 400s in front. This was a bad setup and made the boat too heavy in the rear. We had to add a 400lb bag in the walkway to balance it. Because that was a PITA, I got rid of the rear bags, and put smaller ones under the seats. I like this setup a lot better anyhow, because the rear compartments are much nicer to have available. They are 3x the size, and you don't have to constantly ask somebody to stand up.

so, for those that want to know, I prefer the 2016 G23 to be setup like this-

2-3 people plus full PnP of about 1400lbs NCRS at 3-4, NSS at 0, speed 11.4-11.6

4-6 people plus PnP under lounge seats of about 600lbs NCRS at 1-3, NSS at 0, speed 11.6-11.8

8+ people, stock ballast only, NCRS at 3-5, NSS at 0, speed 11.2-11.6

on a crazy day- 8+ people, full PnP, NCRS at 0-1, NSS at 0, speed at 11.7-12.0

3,012 · July 29, 2016

I keep forgetting storage is a premium on a G due to single rack limitations. If I only had 1 set of racks and was forced to store boards in lockers, I would be protective of that space too. So I can understand not wanting PNP, otherwise board storage is comprised.

2,552 · July 29, 2016

Just now, DarkSide said:

I keep forgetting storage is a premium on a G due to single rack limitations. If I only had 1 set of racks and was forced to store boards in lockers, I would be protective of that space too. So I can understand not wanting PNP, otherwise board storage is comprised.

That's true. The racks suck.

Best I have encountered are the "surf/surf" clamping racks on the MC

1,816 · July 29, 2016

26 minutes ago, Anderson24 said:

Just throwing out some question to this "stock" is the best way to go in a '16 g23...what happens when you start adding people? I mean...let's say I have 10 friends all weighing 200lbs each. Has any G owner said "hey get off my boat people, you are making my surf wave worse!"? Doubt it. There is a huge difference in ballast when there are 3 vs 10 (or 15!) people. That is where extra pnp bags can help replace weight that isn't there when your friends don't show up because you yelled at them last time for ruining the surf wave.

Just my humble opinion. Some day I wish I am able to afford having to make the decision between a G or an M.

Only reason for that rumor, is that people don't know what they are doing.......... They throw bags in the back, fill them up, and think it's going to be awesome........ Only, they just completely threw off the balance of the boat, and made it worse.

Adding weight in the middle of a G just keeps making it bigger and better. I have never had a passenger load mess up my wave.

3,012 · July 29, 2016

Just now, bamaboy said:

That's true. The racks suck.

Best I have encountered are the "surf/surf" clamping racks on the MC

I think most now are offering the PTM clamping racks, they are awesome. $$$ but worth it.

2,552 · July 29, 2016

Just now, DarkSide said:

I think most now are offering the PTM clamping racks, they are awesome. $$$ but worth it.

I haven't used those. They look nice

Are they big enough for a large, custom surfboard?

13,578 · July 29, 2016

10 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

I'm guessing there is a reason they didn't have PNP? Isn't that dude a dealer with an early boat? My guess is zero actual consumers that bought an M didn't have PNP. Nor would anyone on this site order it without PNP. It's an option just like surfgate is an option.

Sure he works for a dealer, but also had quite a few non dealer people out that IIRC were very happy. Plus the OP of the thread is a buyer of a M and specifically stated that he got the PNP option, but does not bother running them because stock MLS is so good.

As for the 25 LSV running 4100 RPM, isn't that the bottom line? Stock from the factory it runs 4100 RPM surfing. That's not cool. Shouldn't have to tweak it that much to get the RPM down. Sounds like this may have changed for 2017 though? or is that just on the MXZ?

I guess I don't view a prop change as a ton of tweaking, but sure... And I don't know what the drive trains are for the rest of the line up in 2017. I would not hesitate to buy a 25 because of the RPMs. Maybe the boat was ordered with the "high altitude" prop and not the "torque prop".

...

1,816 · July 29, 2016

3 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

I keep forgetting storage is a premium on a G due to single rack limitations. If I only had 1 set of racks and was forced to store boards in lockers, I would be protective of that space too. So I can understand not wanting PNP, otherwise board storage is comprised.

They do have optional surf sleeves now. I have 3 in my Bimini, which is enough with my single racks. My buddy definitely uses his rear compartments on his 2013.

That said, Nautique could really stand to take a look at Malibu and MasterCraft for board storage. Heck, my X23 had storage for 12 boards on the tower. 4 in the regular racks, 4 in the vertical racks, and 4 in the Bimini. I do miss that......

2,552 · July 29, 2016

4 minutes ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Unless I was sure I could get the RPM down that would limit me from buying a 25 LSV.

I guess that is assuming a simple prop change would do it. I wouldn't want to ride around at 4100-4200 RPM all day. I would need to do more research on that. That's just me though. Lots of guys wouldn't care. I get that.

Edited July 29, 2016 by bamaboy

3,012 · July 29, 2016

Bama,

Yes PTM holds surfers.

On the RPM side, it is a function of the lower gear ratios and 15" props. 1.72:1 on most with 15" props.

This is where Nautique had an edge 17" prop is so much more efficient at pushing tons of weight. The only 2 Malibu I am aware of getting 17" prop are M235 and 24MXZ, The 22MXZ may also have it but I am not certain.

I am like you I don't like listening to 4000+ RPM ALL day.

2,448 · July 29, 2016

5 hours ago, TenTwentyOne said:

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Only reason for that rumor, is that people don't know what they are doing.......... They throw bags in the back, fill them up, and think it's going to be awesome........ Only, they just completely threw off the balance of the boat, and made it worse.

Adding weight in the middle of a G just keeps making it bigger and better. I have never had a passenger load mess up my wave.

Thanks 1021, that's the first I've heard that idea, quite different from the surfgate concensus that suggests a slight list is preferred. We will play around with that idea this weekend.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Ndawg12

1,816 · July 29, 2016

7 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

Thanks 1021, that's the first I've heard that idea, quite different from the surfgate concensus that suggests a slight list is preferred. We will play around with that idea this weekend.

I have tried listing a couple times. It makes the wave steeper from my experience. It seemed best evenly loaded and with weight balanced at center. If you want an easy way to try it out, just blow up a 750 in the middle of the floor and maybe lower NCRS a little if needed. If you like that, you know you can throw a couple 300s under the lounge seats.

7 minutes ago, Ndawg12 said:

Thanks 1021, that's the first I've heard that idea, quite different from the surfgate concensus that suggests a slight list is preferred. We will play around with that idea this weekend.

I have tried listing a couple times. It makes the wave steeper from my experience. It seemed best evenly loaded and with weight balanced at center. If you want an easy way to try it out, just blow up a 750 in the middle of the floor and maybe lower NCRS a little if needed. If you like that, you know you can throw a couple 300s under the lounge seats.

2,448 · July 29, 2016

Just now, TenTwentyOne said:

I have tried listing a couple times. It makes the wave steeper from my experience. It seemed best evenly loaded and with weight balanced at center. If you want an easy way to try it out, just blow up a 750 in the middle of the floor and maybe lower NCRS a little if needed. If you like that, you know you can throw a couple 300s under the lounge seats.

I have tried listing a couple times. It makes the wave steeper from my experience. It seemed best evenly loaded and with weight balanced at center. If you want an easy way to try it out, just blow up a 750 in the middle of the floor and maybe lower NCRS a little if needed. If you like that, you know you can throw a couple 300s under the lounge seats.

Gotcha.

I'll try that too.

14,085 · July 29, 2016

1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

I haven't used those. They look nice

Are they big enough for a large, custom surfboard?

Does this answer your question...

^^^ tried to post a picture there of my Soulcraft in the PTM rack. I can't see if it worked. Damn airplane wifi sucks rocks!!

14,085 · July 29, 2016

Just to clarify Bama's comments about Malibu PnP....

Yes, it is an "option" but like SG or PW2 it's an "option" that 100% of the Malibus have (save the Response boats). That said, PnP is nothing more than plumbing. The bags are not included. You don't have to run bags just cuz the plumbing is included, and we've seen a few instances just on this forum of M's running nothing but hard tanks (that's how my dealer runs the boat).

When I demo'd the M it had 550's in the lockers (pretty much the smallest bags available) and nothing extra in the bow. Very respectable wave, but didn't BLOW me away. Wish I could surf a G to compare.

M235 with 550 PnP. The rider (not me) is 5'10"

1,177 · July 29, 2016

2 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

1 hour ago, DarkSide said:

Bama,

Yes PTM holds surfers.

On the RPM side, it is a function of the lower gear ratios and 15" props. 1.72:1 on most with 15" props.

This is where Nautique had an edge 17" prop is so much more efficient at pushing tons of weight. The only 2 Malibu I am aware of getting 17" prop are M235 and 24MXZ, The 22MXZ may also have it but I am not certain.

I am like you I don't like listening to 4000+ RPM ALL day.

The 25LSV will have the 17" prop setup for 2017... Actually, the East coast rep for malibu has that setup on his boat. He can put an INSANE amount of ballast in that boat and still get on plane for wakeboarding. The wake is insane.

Edited July 29, 2016 by boardjnky4

14,085 · July 29, 2016

15 minutes ago, boardjnky4 said:

The 25LSV will have the 17" prop setup for 2017... Actually, the East coast rep for malibu has that setup on his boat. He can put an INSANE amount of ballast in that boat and still get on plane for wakeboarding. The wake is insane.

This may influence my 2017 order...

3,012 · July 29, 2016

I am not reading any more....I love my boat....I love my boat.....nothing to see here.....I love my boat....ugh!

13,578 · July 29, 2016

6 minutes ago, IXFE said:

This may influence my 2017 order...

Just now, DarkSide said:

I am not reading any more....I love my boat....I love my boat.....nothing to see here.....I love my boat....ugh!

But building you guys new boats is so much fun!!

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

M235 - G Killer?

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