M235 - G Killer?

[MadMan]

There is a price difference, and there should be. The M235 is a better boat. I mean you pay more for an Escalade than a Tahoe right?? Debate solved

After all, this is TheMalibuCrew....

I'm not sure an Escalade is better than a Tahoe.

[IXFE]

Ok.... But you have no foundation for your "street price" except "IXFE said so".

All your other data seems close enough. Starting MSRP still baffles me, but you don't seem to want me to send you the official pricing sheets instead of the dealer generated sheets...... So I'll just give up on that.

Discrediting a 20k difference comment, saying there is no difference, and then posting a 14k difference yourself..... And we are the "dogs with a frisby" for questioning the details of it??

Ok.... Got it...

I never "said so" anything. I'm quoting actual "boat show" prices on the G... From two different shows now in two entirely different markets. If you have a better proxy for "street price" I'm all ears. But boat show pricing says It's a roughly $150k boat give or take.

On the flip side the M decontent is a $150k boat also.

People across this country are walking into Nautique dealers and spending $150k on G23's. That is happening. And soon people will be buying optioned down M's for the same price. That is the price range.

if there is a difference, it's immaterial at these price points.

Edited February 12, 2016 by IXFE

[mbianchini]

ixfe, would you agree that boat show prices are still 5-10 percent over a bro deal? If they are asking 150 for the g at the boat show you would think there would still be some room to negotiate

[IXFE]

ixfe, would you agree that boat show prices are still 5-10 percent over a bro deal? If they are asking 150 for the g at the boat show you would think there would still be some room to negotiate

I won't pretend to know the answer to those questions. I've never actually bought from the boat show. If I did, you better believe I'd try to get some more out of the price. The thing I like about the boat show is it's the one time a year where you can usually find boats with clearly marked prices on them. I collected all sorts of pricing data at the Dallas Boat Show tonight. Ironically, the most expensive boat at the show was not the M235. It was the X-26 available for the low low price of $185K... and it SOLD on day 2 of the show!!

As far as what makes up a "bro deal" that's another topic I'm not going to touch. If people on this forum can't agree to use "boat show" price as an acceptable proxy for "street price" imagine if we tried to find common ground on the definition of "bro deal." LOL.

[IXFE]

Since I'm on the subject of "boat show" pricing, I collected the following data tonight in Dallas (from most to least expensive):

Note: Malibu and Nautique did not have prices posted. However I talked to the Nautique rep for 20 minutes or so. I acted like a real local buyer. We got to pricing and he told me $145K - $155K for the G23 450. And he also referenced "up to" $190K MSRP's at the top end of the 450 scale. This was all verbal. I guess you're gonna have to trust me. Maybe I should have asked permission to take a video of our conversation. "Uh, you don't mind if I record this conversation, do you? If I don't get this down on tape twentyone is going to call me a liar liar pants on fire."

Mastercraft X-26 w/ 7.4L

MSRP: $213K

Sale: $185K (13% off)

Centurion Ri 237

MSRP: $169K

Sale: $154K (9% off)

Mastercraft X-23 w/ 6.2L

MSRP: $173K

Sale: $148K (15% off)

Mastercraft X-46

MSRP: $173K

Sale: $148K (15% off)

Mastercraft X-30 w/ 6.0L

MSRP: $151K

Sale: $129K (15% off)

Supra SE450

MSRP: $145K

Sale: $127K / $124K after rebate (16% off)

Supra SC400

MSRP: $124K

Sale: $104K / $99K after rebate (20% off)

Moomba Mojo w/ Raptor 400

MSRP: $84K

Sale: $78K / $76K after rebate (10% off)

Moomba Craz w/ Raptor 400

MSRP: $80K

Sale: $74K / $72K after rebate (10% off)

Other boats that listed "boat show" pricing only (i.e. no window sticker):

Mastercraft NXT22: $78K

Mastercraft NXT 20: $69K all day! it never gets old!

Axis A20: $60K

That's all I got, fellas! God bless Texas!!

Edited February 12, 2016 by IXFE

[IXFE]

Your pricing does look correct for the most part. The starting MSRP is throwing me off a bit, but as posted, it's states that on the site too. I am serious though, pm me your email, and I will forward the Nautique excel spreadsheet that shows pricing for all models, and a 16 G23 is listed at 136k base. I tried to screenshot it, and post it, but can't get it shrunk enough for everything to be in one shot.

Just for completeness sake, I went back and asked about the base price difference you pointed out. Here's what I learned:

At the beginning of the 2016 model year, the G23 had a base price of $136,731, which is aprox $5,200 higher than 2015. However, now the base price is $139,155 (both on the web site and confirmed by my dealer). It seems that Nautique did a another mid-year price bump of $2,424.

[Pnwrider]

Some of those Texas prices are real close to seattle prices. In fact the centurion is almost 25k more in texas. The moombas listed are both more expensive as well but that is probably due to the aws prices that were at the Seattle show.

[IXFE]

Some of those Texas prices are real close to seattle prices. In fact the centurion is almost 25k more in texas. The moombas listed are both more expensive as well but that is probably due to the aws prices that were at the Seattle show.

Yeah, I wasn't blown away by the prices I saw tonight. I didn't collect nearly this many data points at Portland show, but there is one that sticks out in my mind cuz I discussed it with Doc that night...

X-30 with 6.2L (Portland)

MSRP: $160K

Sale: $130K (19% off)

X-30 with 6.0L (Dallas)

MSRP: $151K

Sale: $129K (15% off)

So for the same "boat show" price of $130K you get the a bigger motor and more gel upgrades in Portland. Oh, and no sales tax in Oregon either.

[IXFE]

Some of those Texas prices are real close to seattle prices. In fact the centurion is almost 25k more in texas. The moombas listed are both more expensive as well but that is probably due to the aws prices that were at the Seattle show.

Oh, and that particular Centurion is probably a outlier... it was 100% silver flake... everywhere... even the hull!! It was like one big glitter bomb.

And it had the supercharged motor.

[Pnwrider]

^^^ those I can beat:

[IXFE]

It's kinda crazy how many boats are > $100K. Virtually all of them. And $150K is everywhere too.

Kinda depressing.

[TenTwentyOne]

Just for completeness sake, I went back and asked about the base price difference you pointed out. Here's what I learned:

At the beginning of the 2016 model year, the G23 had a base price of $136,731, which is aprox $5,200 higher than 2015. However, now the base price is $139,155 (both on the web site and confirmed by my dealer). It seems that Nautique did a another mid-year price bump of $2,424.

Makes sense. My sheet is from back in September. And yes, it was $5200 more than the base price in 2015, however, like I said, NSS was now standard for 2016. Had you priced a 15 and started by adding NSS, it would be starting at $135,600. That would be why I said it was a 1k increase from 15. That doesn't include the fact that SeaDek (regular pattern. Galaxy graphic is additional) became standard for 16 as well, and a 16 comes with a better base sound system than a 15. That has obviously changed. Fair enough.

Did they not have a M235 at the show?

X26 price doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, it is a fully loaded 26'er with a head, wet bar, 7.4, and a 20k bow thruster system. (If it's the one that Texas MC has)

Nonetheless, I will just go ahead and agree that, based on your data........ If you are able to get a decontented m235 at a bro deal of 25+ percent off, it will be about the same price as an equally equipped G23 at average boat show discounts of 20%.

Realistically, we won't know until a decontented M235 is at a show, right? The fully loaded M235 is averaging about $180-$190k boat show prices, right? (Based on what has been posted in this thread and other boat show threads)

Edited February 12, 2016 by TenTwentyOne

[hethj7]

$166.5 for the M at the KC show, just FYI. G23 with the H6 was $134. Prices here seem lower than other areas. Mojo was $65 here, SA450 was $136, T23 was $72.5.

[IXFE]

Makes sense. My sheet is from back in September. And yes, it was $5200 more than the base price in 2015, however, like I said, NSS was now standard for 2016. Had you priced a 15 and started by adding NSS, it would be starting at $135,600. That would be why I said it was a 1k increase from 15. That doesn't include the fact that SeaDek (regular pattern. Galaxy graphic is additional) became standard for 16 as well, and a 16 comes with a better base sound system than a 15. That has obviously changed. Fair enough.

Did they not have a M235 at the show?

X26 price doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, it is a fully loaded 26'er with a head, wet bar, 7.4, and a 20k bow thruster system. (If it's the one that Texas MC has)

Nonetheless, I will just go ahead and agree that, based on your data........ If you are able to get a decontented m235 at a bro deal of 25+ percent off, it will be about the same price as an equally equipped G23 at average boat show discounts of 20%.

Realistically, we won't know until a decontented M235 is at a show, right? The fully loaded M235 is averaging about $180-$190k boat show prices, right? (Based on what has been posted in this thread and other boat show threads)

Makes sense in the pricing. So let's call the first price bump a wash to 2015 since it just replaces NSS. I think that's what you're saying.

The X26 at the Dallas show did not have bow thrusters or a head. The salesman (Craig) told me that they order it without the head because in the summer it would be 140 degrees in there. Lol! However, a condition of the sale is they have to add the bow thrusters. Here's a pic. It was gorgeous, until I went inside. Didn't so much like the seat layout.

The other thing the MC guy told me is that the Nautique dealer sells ALOT of G's down here. He admitted to me that the G is the "it" boat in Dallas. Apparently they're everywhere. Didn't surprise me at all. The dealer had 6-7 on display. And this is Texas after all where EVERYTHING is big.

There was an M235. It was navy blue and silver (Cowboys??). There was no price on it (or any Malibus) but I overheard somebody say it was in the 170's. I didn't ask mainly because the one salesman there was working with a family on a 25 LSV. At the Portland Show the M235 was $228 MSRP and $178 boat show price.

[TenTwentyOne]

Ah, that's a different X26 than he had in his showroom last month. My brother in law is boat shopping, and we stopped at Texas MC. Brother in law lives in Arlington. I was assuming it was the same one.

Craig is a great guy. Seems to have a pretty good attitude about no BS and didn't bash any others. Just kinda said "tons of great boats out there these days, but let me show y'all what the X30 has to offer"

Makes sense to not order the head because of superheated environment!!!

[IXFE]

Ah, that's a different X26 than he had in his showroom last month. My brother in law is boat shopping, and we stopped at Texas MC. Brother in law lives in Arlington. I was assuming it was the same one.

Craig is a great guy. Seems to have a pretty good attitude about no BS and didn't bash any others. Just kinda said "tons of great boats out there these days, but let me show y'all what the X30 has to offer"

Makes sense to not order the head because of superheated environment!!!

Indeed, Craig was awesome. I had never met him before. But I knew him from Wakeworld. So introduced myself and we chatted for 45 minutes as the show was ending (the entire place was pretty empty last night). Did you know they were the #1 MB dealer in the world...until they dropped MB from the store? I hadn't heard they weren't selling MB's anymore. Anyway, Craig is good people. Definitely the type of guy I'd do repeat business with if I lived down here.

[Fman]

Makes sense in the pricing. So let's call the first price bump a wash to 2015 since it just replaces NSS. I think that's what you're saying.

The X26 at the Dallas show did not have bow thrusters or a head. The salesman (Craig) told me that they order it without the head because in the summer it would be 140 degrees in there. Lol! However, a condition of the sale is they have to add the bow thrusters. Here's a pic. It was gorgeous, until I went inside. Didn't so much like the seat layout.

The other thing the MC guy told me is that the Nautique dealer sells ALOT of G's down here. He admitted to me that the G is the "it" boat in Dallas. Apparently they're everywhere. Didn't surprise me at all. The dealer had 6-7 on display. And this is Texas after all where EVERYTHING is big.

There was an M235. It was navy blue and silver (Cowboys??). There was no price on it (or any Malibus) but I overheard somebody say it was in the 170's. I didn't ask mainly because the one salesman there was working with a family on a 25 LSV. At the Portland Show the M235 was $228 MSRP and $178 boat show price.

That M235 booth looks well put together, check out that M235 engraved sign in the walkway... downward lighting and a full walk through. How did it look when you were there? That M235 looks beautiful, nice color scheme. My dealer has one on order coming soon, looking forward to checking it out up close and what price they are going to be asking for it. The Sacramento market tends to be on the low side of pricing, it is going to be interesting what the boat show price will be for the M235 next month in Sac. Dave, plan a business trip down here and we will hook up for the boat show

Edited February 12, 2016 by Fman

[malibudog]

To me, it looks like Malibu's primary strategy for the M was to be able to say that "Malibu makes the most expensive, best wake boat in the industry with the best features included." It is a "halo" boat, not meant to sell huge numbers on its own, but instead to persuade people that overall, Malibu is the best wake boat company and makes the best products. Secondarily, Malibu was losing sales to people whose boat buying strategy was "I want the best, so I look for the most expensive". The M will speak to those buyers.

I don't think Malibu's strategy was ever to build a boat that would be about the same street price as a G. So while this discussion (which I personally think IXFE is winning (but then again I am a Malibu loyalist)) is very interesting, I don't think it has much to do with Malibu's strategy for the M and whether that strategy makes sense.

If you are the sort of educated boat buyer that reads this forum (a very tiny fraction of boat buyers), then you have the tools to debate the issue of "is the M worth whatever additional money I have to pay for it over the G" For some yes, for some no - both groups have valid preferences. But hopefully the decision does not come down to whether the windshield frame is two tone.

I think a more interesting point is which boat puts out a better surf wake, but that is just my bias. Can't believe boat comparisons are even being made when we essentially have no idea about the M's surf and wakeboard wakes. Can't wait till Cipro and others can get us some real info on performance.

[DarkSide]

Boat show in AZ is not until March, they combine with outdoor expo. So you have every toy imaginable. RV, Razor, boats, etc. Moved to new location this year because cardinals stadium was TOO SMALL!

Our dealer has a M235, the ask is mid 170'S MSRP 224.

[thtrog]

Boat show in AZ is not until March, they combine with outdoor expo. So you have every toy imaginable. RV, Razor, boats, etc. Moved to new location this year because cardinals stadium was TOO SMALL!

Our dealer has a M235, the ask is mid 170'S MSRP 224.

Where's the standard 25% discount???

[minnmarker]

Interesting that they have the boats on trailers. At the Minneapolis boat show all the Malibu and MasterCraft boats had their props, rudders, shafts, and fins removed and the boats were sitting on thin pads on the floor. Much easier to access the interiors and see the boats from more of a normal perspective. Regional preferences I guess.

Malibu even had the M235 bow propped up at about the attitude it would be for surfing. You could just step from the floor onto the swim platform and then into the boat.

[thtrog]

I shudder when I see that ^, how would you like to purchase a new boat that's had the running gear removed? I understand why they do it, but have also talked to techs about how much work is involved before and after the shows. I'm heading to our second NC show this afternoon, looks like the same M235 will be there.

[Ndawg12]

To me, it looks like Malibu's primary strategy for the M was to be able to say that "Malibu makes the most expensive, best wake boat in the industry with the best features included." It is a "halo" boat, not meant to sell huge numbers on its own, but instead to persuade people that overall, Malibu is the best wake boat company and makes the best products. Secondarily, Malibu was losing sales to people whose boat buying strategy was "I want the best, so I look for the most expensive". The M will speak to those buyers.

I don't think Malibu's strategy was ever to build a boat that would be about the same street price as a G. So while this discussion (which I personally think IXFE is winning (but then again I am a Malibu loyalist)) is very interesting, I don't think it has much to do with Malibu's strategy for the M and whether that strategy makes sense.

If you are the sort of educated boat buyer that reads this forum (a very tiny fraction of boat buyers), then you have the tools to debate the issue of "is the M worth whatever additional money I have to pay for it over the G" For some yes, for some no - both groups have valid preferences. But hopefully the decision does not come down to whether the windshield frame is two tone.

I think a more interesting point is which boat puts out a better surf wake, but that is just my bias. Can't believe boat comparisons are even being made when we essentially have no idea about the M's surf and wakeboard wakes. Can't wait till Cipro and others can get us some real info on performance.

Not debating but trying to read between the lines of what you're saying. So some people will say "wow, malibu makes the most expensive wakeboard/surf boat, therefore I should buy a VTX." How is that good logic when it appears that most of the additional features at this point are specific to the M and they admittedly have a more rigid QC plan, a plan even LSV money can't buy.

That may be the case for most but my mind doesn't work that way.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Ndawg12

[malibudog]

If your mind worked like the buyer they are primarily targeting with this marketing push, you probably wouldn't be on this forum.

For me, the best I can explain it is, I want Malibu to be the Company that makes the best wake boat in the world, because I am a Malibu fan. I just bought a 23 lsv. I would have bought it even if there never was an M235, but I like the idea that I bought from the Company that makes the "best", or at least has a boat that is in discussions of the best.

[67King]

"Most" people when paying for a boat at that price don't care about stereo delete or other options that can be had for cheaper. Those buyers want a badass boat that is ready to go the moment they pick it up. I can't imagine Lamborghini or Ferrari get guys that order a car sans radio. At that price point, it's USUALLY a different consumer

And I can't imagine a Lamborghini or Ferrari owner financing their car, much less for up to 20 years. Totally different customer base.......