M235 - G Killer?

[thtrog]

Just so you know I'm being objective, I went back to my dealer and raised this issue. They went back and looked at the Nautique excel spreadsheet and confirmed the error. The price is $1140, I'm told. They "fat fingered" that one when they entered it into their CRM system. They also checked the rest of the major options, and confirmed they are all correct.

I've corrected the original spreadsheet and posted it above. Doesn't change the overall story though. We're still in the same ballpark.

Tried to tell you , SeaDek is standard so you don't even have to pick the $1140 galaxy etch. Drop the design pkg and the studio elite, there's another $7500. You can't do stereo delete on the G23, the studio elite is above and beyond either base system. I don't disagree they are getting in the same ballpark, just not an option back in October. I also agree as someone posted earlier the M235 will go back to optioned be competitive. If I had a change of heart it would be back to 23 LSV anyway...

[DarkSide]

I would hope they don't allow people to "strip" them down too far. I agree with certain things. If the intention is premium product then keep it premium. Example stereo delete, a lot of folks do it because they are not satisfied with rockford. In this case they already went top shelf, so why allow stereo delete. They should offer Rev 10, but that is different topic.

Even offering 450 could be risky, it is not acceptable to have your premier product unable to perform at any level. When you are attempting to unseat the title holder. You come out swinging, you don't hold anything back.

Just my perception

[TenTwentyOne]

Just so you know I'm being objective, I went back to my dealer and raised this issue. They went back and looked at the Nautique excel spreadsheet and confirmed the error. The price is $1140, I'm told. They "fat fingered" that one when they entered it into their CRM system. They also checked the rest of the major options, and confirmed they are all correct.

I've corrected the original spreadsheet and posted it above. Doesn't change the overall story though. We're still in the same ballpark.

I see that you corrected that..... Also saw that you lowered the hypothetical discount to compensate

As for margins.... I am going to respectfully ignore your comments on it, because I have seen the actual pricing info on all of the big three. I know exactly what the margins are, and they are within 1-2% difference. It's like it is purposely done that way...... It has been a couple years since I have seen actual margin percentages on Bu's. There is a small chance that they changed their margins, but I don't see why they would. Even without knowing that, I would also tend to listen to the experience of many, many, others, that seem to not have a problem getting a 25% discount on the average Nautique purchase. When in doubt, follow the most logical path of thinking.

Your pricing does look correct for the most part. The starting MSRP is throwing me off a bit, but as posted, it's states that on the site too. I am serious though, pm me your email, and I will forward the Nautique excel spreadsheet that shows pricing for all models, and a 16 G23 is listed at 136k base. I tried to screenshot it, and post it, but can't get it shrunk enough for everything to be in one shot.

I'm guessing that Bimini price is the Roswell??? I never really paid much attention to that. I just knew the sewlong was the better Bimini, had surf sleeves, and was priced at $1500MSRP, just like every other regular Bimini on the average boat. A 3500 Bimini is rediculous, I will give you that.

I also think that the 4K studio elite option should not be in the apples to apples. The standard stereo is a 6 speaker/1 subwoofer JL M series system with Bluetooth etc., and if I remember correctly, the M is also a 6 speaker/1 sub setup. The studio elite adds another amp, another sub, 2 more M series JL speakers, and the wavefront system.

Also, the design pack...... Does the M235 have vent windows? No. Does it have a two tone color keyed windshield frame, or a two tone tower? No. This doesn't belong in the mix either.

Those two options are 8k worth, but there are a couple equally useless things that the M235 has that bring some $$ back in to the mix. No problem admitting that.

Nonetheless, sure, if you are getting a great discount on the M, and a not so great discount on the G, and putting them head to head...... It looks like they would be close. But I am not going to consider it valid to argue that the margins are vastly different. That is as much BS as us G guys saying that the 2850 is all we run...... (Which I don't believe I ever said)

[ibelonginprison]

Anyone who finances a boat is two corners shy of a triangle.

For yeeeeeears I didn't finance a boat.

... those were also the years I didn't have one.

[DarkSide]

Ten,

You are correct there are things in the G that do not correlate. There are also things on the BU left off of the comparison. G is on tandem M a triple. M has G4 which is huge upgrade. Includes forward lights, down firing cabin led, and Clamping racks, G does not offer anything competitive to these. These items tend to cancel each other out. Each one has a purpose and each has a following, I would take G4 over vented windshield every time. I also tow 100 miles each way in the summer so would not order either without a triple

Does G have led in window frame? No. Led trumps color keyed

Edited February 11, 2016 by DarkSide

[TenTwentyOne]

Dark- the G comes standard with foreward LED lights. It also has 4 downward firing LEDs if you get the standard tower speakers. My G has clamping racks, as I stated before. And I included that in my pricing on mine.....

Ironically, getting the 4 HLCDs with downward LEDs, knocks another 2k off of the pricing that IXFE posted...

I didn't know that the windshield frame was lit with LEDs on the M. That said, I'd rather it be color keyed. There are other places I would prefer LEDs obviously, but not on the windshield...... Especially at night. I have enough issues with glare already.

Edited February 11, 2016 by TenTwentyOne

[wakebrdr94]

Anyone who finances a boat is two corners shy of a triangle.

finance three boats???

[TenTwentyOne]

See...... PTM clamping racks. Ignore the extension cord. I was vacuuming

[DarkSide]

I was referring to the quote posted. I also don't disagree you can get a VERY nice G23 for less money than an M.

LED are on outside of the window. So no glare, not a huge thing but still kinda cool.

I would ask this, if you were to build a G Comparible, making them as close to apples to apples as possible would they not be priced similarly. IXFE data says yes they would. Obviously there will still be some differences, and these differences would determine the better fit for the buyer that wants all the bells and whistles.

[TenTwentyOne]

I was referring to the quote posted. I also don't disagree you can get a VERY nice G23 for less money than an M.

LED are on outside of the window. So no glare, not a huge thing but still kinda cool.

I would ask this, if you were to build a G Comparible, making them as close to apples to apples as possible would they not be priced similarly. IXFE data says yes they would. Obviously there will still be some differences, and these differences would determine the better fit for the buyer that wants all the bells and whistles.

Well...... Not exactly. IXFE used a large discount variance to bring his prices together on that example. That said, I don't have a hard time admitting that the difference isn't as huge as I thought it would be. It's 14k difference MSRP using IXFEs data. But this is how I look at it-

1) 14k is definitely not an insignificant amount to start with.

2) IMO design pack, studio elite, and Galaxy etch should be removed for a closer apples to apples. That brings the difference to 25k MSRP

3) I feel it is fair to add back 4K to the g for the racks, and another 5-6k for things like windshield LEDs, steering wheel controls, power wind block,etc., which still leaves a $15k difference.

In the grand scheme of things, 15k is not a HUGE difference, but it is a pretty noteable one. The decontented M235 certainly closes the gap a bit, but there is still a gap. The apples to apples fully loaded gap is definitely a bigger difference.

Apples to apples is hard because both boats have a few little things that the other doesn't. But I think that the above guesstimates put it as close as I can figure.

[IXFE]

You guys exhaust me. I honestly don't know why I bother.

First it was I'm fluffing the numbers by $20k. I proved that wrong.

Then it was the option prices are all jacked up and my dealer made up the MSRP. I fixed that.

Then it was how you can build a G for cheaper. I acknowledged that from the beginning.

Now we're onto the truly enlightening part of the discussion... windshield frames. Count me out.

Look, I provided data (nobody else has). Ya'll can interpret however you want.

I'm going to to the Dallas Boat Expo now.... Wonder how many $150k G23's I'll see.

[IXFE]

And 21... I didn't change the discount % on my spreadsheet. It auto calculates because the G23 boat show price is constant. Finding one error on that price sheet doesn't change the "street price" which is what this discussion is supposed to be about.

[TenTwentyOne]

And 21... I didn't change the discount % on my spreadsheet. It auto calculates because the G23 boat show price is constant. Finding one error on that price sheet doesn't change the "street price" which is what this discussion is supposed to be about.

Ok.... But you have no foundation for your "street price" except "IXFE said so".

All your other data seems close enough. Starting MSRP still baffles me, but you don't seem to want me to send you the official pricing sheets instead of the dealer generated sheets...... So I'll just give up on that.

Discrediting a 20k difference comment, saying there is no difference, and then posting a 14k difference yourself..... And we are the "dogs with a frisby" for questioning the details of it??

Ok.... Got it...

[ahopkins22LSV]

You guys are splitting hairs lol. At those prices points who cares. They are both bad arse boats and all of use would be happy with either of them. Some of us like one or the other better that's human nature. Some of us don't like how Malibu launched the M but they are trying to enter a market they aren't generally associated with. Maybe it was over board but whatever. I would love to be able to consider either. I am not a Nautique fan so the extra money for the M wouldn't bother me if I was spending that much. It's a luxury at that point.

[Cipro]

We should nitpick on the power windscreen again, that was more better...

Mine is supposed to get to the dealer tomorrow or Monday...(short 40 min drive) from factory to dealer...

Also, I will be happy to demo whoever wants to come to Knoxville post April 15th. I won't have dockable water until then. Im easy to find...ask for Mastercraft cove...

Edited February 12, 2016 by Cipro

[Fman]

See...... PTM clamping racks. Ignore the extension cord. I was vacuuming

Just curious, can you add extra set of ptm racks on nautique tower? That tower looks great, that base mount is no joke. My bil has those JL towers on his mastercraft and they sound great.

[DarkSide]

Yes, Cipro nailed it!

Way too many power functions on M235's. Power windscreens,driver seat, they provided a 110 outlet to make lattes, but buried it inside that power panel, ugh.

Why would anyone consider one of these.

(Major sarcasm font)

[Tims]

So crazy that in just a few short years the "G" has become the lower cost bargain boat when compared to a Malibu. Instead of comparing wakes and waves, it's now about LED's and vented windshields.

[OxDoc]

See...... PTM clamping racks. Ignore the extension cord. I was vacuuming

Love the clamping racks. Where did you get them?

[TenTwentyOne]

Just curious, can you add extra set of ptm racks on nautique tower? That tower looks great, that base mount is no joke. My bil has those JL towers on his mastercraft and they sound great.

Only way would be to get the Roswell tube clamps. The ptm racks bolt up to any Roswell mount. So, yes, but it would be far from a factory look. It would look a bit cheesy.

Although, I have always kinda thought quad racks looked funny. I wouldn't get them on a Bu, and I didn't put them on my X23 when MC came out with them last year. Just a personal preference I guess and I don't ever usually have more than 6 or 7 boards with me.

[nohlan4]

Is anyone actually ordering a m235 with a 450 anyway? I wouldn't want to Guinea pig it seeing as it's probably hard enough to score a demo and those boats for sure have the 575.....

[IXFE]

Just finished up at the Dallas boat show.

Boat show price on G23 450 ranges between 145 and 155 depending on the very options were talking about. And this is one of the biggest Nautique dealers in the world.

That's two different dealers now in two different cities. Same price.

[DarkSide]

I suspect as IXFE stated earlier you will be able to get an M down into that price range. The biggest ticket item on the reduction is the 575 to 450. That is 12k MSRP 9k real. At this price point are you going to give up 20% of your power to have a 150k boat vs 159k or are you going to go all in and order the 575 anyway. As others stated at this point it is a luxury items and 10k is likely not a make it or break it thing. The guy willing to drop $150k on a boat will likely not hesitate to much to drop $160 for the bigger engine.

[wakebrdr94]

There is a price difference, and there should be. The M235 is a better boat. I mean you pay more for an Escalade than a Tahoe right?? Debate solved

After all, this is TheMalibuCrew....

Edited February 12, 2016 by wakebrdr94

[nohlan4]

I suspect as IXFE stated earlier you will be able to get an M down into that price range. The biggest ticket item on the reduction is the 575 to 450. That is 12k MSRP 9k real. At this price point are you going to give up 20% of your power to have a 150k boat vs 159k or are you going to go all in and order the 575 anyway. As others stated at this point it is a luxury items and 10k is likely not a make it or break it thing. The guy willing to drop $150k on a boat will likely not hesitate to much to drop $160 for the bigger engine.

That's true, I was just trying to bring back the fact that can you even fairly say that anyone would even think about it from the stance that the boat is pretty unproven still with the 575 until more people get there hands on them. If I was buying I wouldn't even want to look at the 450 in case it underperforms.