M235 - G Killer?

[23LSVOwner]

I think you might be missing the whole point of a horsepower measurement, or you are under the impression that horsepower is a completely different thing......

If you look at the formulas that I posted you will see that I am aware that the two are related.

My statement about wanting to know the torque is this.

240 HP honda 2.2 liter engine.

165 lb/ft of torque.

240 HP Gm engine(old school).

285 lb/ft of torque.

Same HP.

Everything else being equal.

Which one gets the boat out of the hole faster?

The one with more torque, hence my stating that I like the torque rating while others prefer the HP rating.

Edited January 26, 2016 by 23LSVOwner

[TenTwentyOne]

If you look at the formulas that I posted you will see that I am aware that the two are related.

My statement about wanting to know the torque is this.

240 HP honda 2.2 liter engine.

165 lb/ft of torque.

240 HP Gm engine(old school).

285 lb/ft of torque.

Same HP.

Which one gets the boat out of the hole faster?

The one with more torque, hence my stating that I like the torque rating while others prefer the HP rating.

Actually, no. Given appropriate gearing for each engine, (they would need different gearing to optimize each engines power band) both would get out of the whole about the same.

There might be slight variations depending on overall power delivery over the entire powerbands of the engines, but they would be very similar with appropriate gearing (ironically, the Honda would most likely be better performing overall)

[MadMan]

Actually, no. Given appropriate gearing for each engine, (they would need different gearing to optimize each engines power band) both would get out of the whole about the same.

There might be slight variations depending on overall power delivery over the entire powerbands of the engines, but they would be very similar with appropriate gearing (ironically, the Honda would most likely be better performing overall)

Don't know if the Honda would be the better performing, but it would be the more annoying, having to turn about twice the RPM to generate the same horsepower as the V8.

[DarkSide]

The two pieces of information are irrelevant without the other piece. My old truck had a 425 HP hemi, my current truck has a 355 HP engine. Which pulls better? The 355 HP because it generates 850 ft lbs of torque, the hemi just under 400. So 425 HP@5500 RPM is less effective because the torque of the other is generated at 1500 RPM.

This is why the 350 actually works fairly well, it generates significant low end torque, but never peaks in HP.

[TenTwentyOne]

I will just back out of this and get back to M235 discussion. If the basics of engine performance are not well understood, it is way too hard to explain the ins and outs.

It needs its own thread

[23LSVOwner]

Actually, no. Given appropriate gearing for each engine, (they would need different gearing to optimize each engines power band) both would get out of the whole about the same.

There might be slight variations depending on overall power delivery over the entire powerbands of the engines, but they would be very similar with appropriate gearing (ironically, the Honda would most likely be better performing overall)

You missed the "all other things being equal".

Even with adjusted gearing the Honda would not be the better engine as the top speed would be terrible because of the gearing needed to match the power curve of the engine vs the weight of the boat and it would most likely get worse GPH as it would be operating at the top of it's RPM range at all times of being actually used. Not talking about idling.

Edited January 27, 2016 by 23LSVOwner

[TenTwentyOne]

You missed the "all other things being equal".

Even with adjusted gearing the Honda would not be the better engine as the top speed would be terrible because of the gearing needed to match the power curve of the engine vs the weight of the boat and it would most likely get worse GPH as it would be operating at the top of it's RPM range at all times of being actually used. Not talking about idling.

Here- simplified explanation among 1000 others that explain.... Google can provide lots of reading as to why horsepower is the more important measurement. If you care to debate it further, we can start a new thread in off topic.

http://www.lainefamily.com/hp.htm

[Fman]

Mr. Springer posted last weekend in AL that a Grandpa bought a M235 for his 7 year old grandson. No negotiations, just $174k in less than 5 minutes. Clearly, we're not the target audience for this fine machine.

He would actually tell people on a public forum someone paid $174k when MSRP is $225k? That seems a little odd coming from the CEO.

[ahopkins22LSV]

My local dealer has theirs in. Just teasing pictures of it on FB. I might see it before the boat show, but that is in two weeks or so. Looking forward to get in this thing and behind it in a few months!

[thtrog]

He would actually tell people on a public forum someone paid $174k when MSRP is $225k? That seems a little odd coming from the CEO.

I just assumed that was the boat show tagged "special price" since he said there was no negations.

[ibelonginprison]

Mr. Springer posted last weekend in AL that a Grandpa bought a M235 for his 7 year old grandson. No negotiations, just $174k in less than 5 minutes. Clearly, we're not the target audience for this fine machine.

Doesn't surprise me. Sounds like something the guy that owns Drummond Coal would do. He'll drop six figures in a heartbeat for something that his grandkids would use with him.

[Fman]

I just assumed that was the boat show tagged "special price" since he said there was no negations.

These msrp boat prices are so far off from the actual selling price. Seems like a much bigger gap than vehicles. Maybe they over inflate them so much to make people feel like they are getting a great deal?

[BadgerBoater55]

These msrp boat prices are so far off from the actual selling price. Seems like a much bigger gap than vehicles. Maybe they over inflate them so much to make people feel like they are getting a great deal?

I think that is part of it...

Also not certain, but the people who have the money to just "go and buy a boat today" probably won't do a ton of negotiating if it is a comfortable purchase for them, increasing dealers profit.

One of the most important rules of salesmanship is to always make the customer feel like they won (or are right...). Safe to say you are right.

[JoeA]

Anybody want to guess how many M235s sell this year? <300?

[teamerickson]

182

[formulaben]

If you look at the formulas that I posted you will see that I am aware that the two are related.

My statement about wanting to know the torque is this.

240 HP honda 2.2 liter engine.

165 lb/ft of torque.

240 HP Gm engine(old school).

285 lb/ft of torque.

Same HP.

Everything else being equal.

Which one gets the boat out of the hole faster?

The one with more torque, hence my stating that I like the torque rating while others prefer the HP rating.

Actually, no. Given appropriate gearing for each engine, (they would need different gearing to optimize each engines power band) both would get out of the whole about the same.

There might be slight variations depending on overall power delivery over the entire powerbands of the engines, but they would be very similar with appropriate gearing (ironically, the Honda would most likely be better performing overall)

How many gears do you have on your boat? Given a single gear (prop), you can select a prop for each engine that will result in equal hole shots, but no way those 2 engines deliver equally after the hole shot, e.g. over the entire operating envelope. Equal hole shots will result in higher top speed for the V8; selecting the same props for both motors will result in better hole shot for the V8 (due to more torque at lower RPMs.)

Edited January 31, 2016 by formulaben

[nyryan2001]

1.48:1

2:1

1.38?:1

There's all sorts of new gearing options. Most in the last two years have been aimed to optimize performance running bigger dia/more pitched props in the extreme 3-5k ballast range

[formulaben]

Ryan, the question was rhetorical. I'll add the other quote for context.

[rennis]

Snapped a photo of the M235 Seattle Boat brought to the show for all of us!!

[TenTwentyOne]

Ryan, the question was rhetorical. I'll add the other quote for context.

You missed the "all other things being equal".

Even with adjusted gearing the Honda would not be the better engine as the top speed would be terrible because of the gearing needed to match the power curve of the engine vs the weight of the boat and it would most likely get worse GPH as it would be operating at the top of it's RPM range at all times of being actually used. Not talking about idling.

Ok...... I did the work to show this and started a new thread in off topic so this thread can go back on topic. I couldn't find comparable dynos on a 240hp 5.7 and the 240hp Honda engine. But I did find a couple low torque/high hp engines to compare to a 350hp/400lbft 5.7l.

Here- http://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/topic/58884-horsepower-vs-torque/

[thtrog]

Got to spend a few minutes crawling around the M235 today. Very nice boat, but nothing that blew me out of the water...maybe a water demo will change my mind. The big chucks of billet are not attractive or practical, especial guarding the engine??? No price on it and I didn't ask, I was told that Malibu has provided dealers with an options list than can be deleted on orders now. It did look sharp on the triple axle and I liked the color combo. Sorry, no pics...grabbed on off dealer FB.

Edited February 6, 2016 by thtrog

[3sport]

In Alberta m235 boat show price is $230. G23s are 190ish. All amounts in cdn$.

[Diesel86]

Heard from my dealer that the m235 is going for a whopping $275,000 in Aussie land

[OxDoc]

That blue color is pretty amazing on the m235. I have to admit I was not a fan until I saw one in person, can't wait to see real world surf and wake board reviews.

[Cipro]

Mine finished yesterday, waiting on a few more custom tweaks from dealer, but I can confirm it will be in Knoxville boat show.