M235 - G Killer?

[oldjeep]

Shareholders as well as customers. If they cost more to produce because of added labor costs guess who that added cost is passed along to?

To an extent I agree, but how much labor does it take to throw your plug in the garbage after you use a hole saw. I couldn't believe in my 2012 that there was a chunk of the fiberglass that they drilled out for the seat bolt access that was left clunking around in the void. At least 2 people would have known it was there - the guy who drilled and cut the access hole and the guy who bolted in the seat. A lot of the "issues" I've seen in my boat are just a lack of cleanliness during the build.

[Raimie]

Why would Malibu not do this on EVERY boat? Even us folks that live on the other side of the tracks should get this service for the price of these boats. Last I checked the VLX, LSV, MXZ, etc.. are not exactly cheap purchases!

Same with the Axis line. Anyone shelling out 60k + for a toy expects better quality than we are seeing. None of this would fly in the auto industry. Imagine picking up your new 65k Denali lifting up the floor mat and finding cut zip ties and screws laying there...then again, imagine the reaction on any vehicle, even the 20k price point!

[Raimie]

There is a fine line on labor that can eat up margin in production. Don't get me wrong I completely agree. But the company has a responsibility to shareholders to deliver and as long as they can balance along the quality line they will see more $$

5 minutes worth of shopvacing would go a long way.

As well as actually completing the QA checks they say they do in their production tour video...

[23LSVOwner]

To an extent I agree, but how much labor does it take to throw your plug in the garbage after you use a hole saw. I couldn't believe in my 2012 that there was a chunk of the fiberglass that they drilled out for the seat bolt access that was left clunking around in the void. At least 2 people would have known it was there - the guy who drilled and cut the access hole and the guy who bolted in the seat. A lot of the "issues" I've seen in my boat are just a lack of cleanliness during the build.

There is a difference between discussing the added end user cost of having individual labor teams for each boat model and quality issues.

[mr7]

It's disappointing to hear that a 200k price tag is the driving force behind reasonable quality control in a luxury towboat, but with that being said, they don't seem to have a real incentive to fix that.

To that end, I wonder how many people are actually able to appreciate the quality in a boat that is used on weekends during the summer (for most). I guess there is a market out there for it, but I question the cause behind the demand.

[shawndoggy]

That's where you are wrong. There is one "team" dedicated to building these boats. They are with it from start to finish, only one boat built at a time. Just to make sure it is flawless.

hey waitaminute... '94 are you working for Tillys/Malibu now? Did I miss something?

(congrats on the job change if so!)

[Ronnie]

I worked for GM for my whole career. I was involved with new model builds each year for model change. We always had a team go through the first builds from start to finish. We had all the production processes in place before we ever took it to the production line. The process was tweaked in the pilot builds. These vehicles weren't sold, they were scrapped. My point here is the process for these new boats is probably the same. The pre-production build team has to go through with the first builds to check the process and teach the line workers the process. I doubt that any special teams will build these boats after the first production boats are built. BICBW....

[Stevo]

Shareholders as well as customers. If they cost more to produce because of added labor costs guess who that added cost is passed along to?

5 minutes worth of shopvacing would go a long way.

As well as actually completing the QA checks they say they do in their production tour video...

i wholeheartedly agree with both^^ i had my own little carpet / fiberglass shavings rats nest. Maybe this is the sort of thing everyone needs to put in their survey, and voice to their dealer that you want them to knock some extra $$ for a cleaning surcharge at delivery. If everyone just lets it slide their is no reason for them to change practice.(even though its the right thing to do)

[23LSVOwner]

It's disappointing to hear that a 200k price tag is the driving force behind reasonable quality control in a luxury towboat, but with that being said, they don't seem to have a real incentive to fix that.

To that end, I wonder how many people are actually able to appreciate the quality in a boat that is used on weekends during the summer (for most). I guess there is a market out there for it, but I question the cause behind the demand.

From my understanding there is a whole new team over the quality department now.

[DarkSide]

There is a fine line on labor that can eat up margin in production. Don't get me wrong I completely agree. But the company has a responsibility to shareholders to deliver and as long as they can balance along the quality line they will see more $$

In watching my boat go through the process last summer, labor cannot be that big of a line item on a per boat basis. Especially on the more expensive boats. It takes the roughly the same amount of time to spray an A20 as 25LSV. Engine install, etc. A20 still has to meet margins, so the more expensive boats should have a little more room for extra labor.

I was actually very happy with the quality contol steps they have in place. The boats are inspected several times, before shipping. The main complaint you read on here is screws left in, or other debris. This is a cleaning misstep, and will not affect performance in any way shape or form. Most people would not even know these items are there. They are discovered only after disassembly of something.

I agree with paying extra attention to detail on the first few Mseries boats, because they are trying to lift the brand to that upper most tier.

I also believe quality has gotten significantly better over the last couple years. My 2014 was a train wreck, my 2015 as stated above has been absolutely flawless, except one loose connection for tower lights.

You can also look into the Financials and see warranty spending is up 5% but production is up 20% so boats are leaving with fewer defects. As they continue to improve, and refine the process this will only get better.

[Stevo]

the screws and carpet / fiberglass debris is an easy fix yes. I'm more interested in interior paneling / vinyl alignment , and cushion alignment. My dealer fixed mine under warranty , but those type of things affect the overall opinion of quality.

here was the back panel before it was fixed

Edited November 24, 2015 by Stevo

[Fman]

I have another corner step seat cushion beginning to tear at the seam. I wish they could do something about those seats, every malibu I have owned starts to have issues there at about 110+ hours. You think they could beef up the stitching process for that one seat on each side of the boat.

I have to agree with darkside, my 15 vlx was pretty solid overall, a couple little items but overall I did not find much to complain about. Much better than my 2013 was.

[bamabonners]

Even my 2015 axis seems to have better quality than my 2011 vlx.

Good points guys.

[Stevo]

guess than means 2015+ is the way to go. its time for a new boat

[ac88926]

2014 Axis A22 here with only 90 hours. Same as stated above, fiberglass shavings everywhere, lots of nuts, washers, screws, cut zip ties in bilge. Already had both corner seats covered under warranty from tearing at the seams, and now the middle seat too. Had a warranty issue with the cover, headunit, and swim deck pad also. Luckily I have the best dealer in the US that takes excellent care of their customers. Everything about my boat and engine have been rock solid and I don't regret my decision to buy a bit as far as thats concerned, but as stated above, for something that cost $65-221,000, run a shop vac for 45 seconds. And do I have to spend $190k on a M235 to get the shop vac treatment? I get it that time = money but come on man. It would be a "Game Changer" if there was some pride put in their work to clean up their mess. Just because its out of sight behind my sub or under a panel doesnt make me feel better. Thats like a kid taking 2 mins to throw all their stuff into the closet and saying their bedroom is clean. Their customers pay a lot of money for their toys and should get a boat in pristine condition. Maybe I expect too much. Sorry for the "rant". Kinda took off after I started typing.

Edited November 24, 2015 by ac88926

[nyryan2001]

The two worst things for Malibu's QAQC were Springer's arrival and the closing of the Merced plant.

[tjklein]

the screws and carpet / fiberglass debris is an easy fix yes. I'm more interested in interior paneling / vinyl alignment , and cushion alignment. My dealer fixed mine under warranty , but those type of things affect the overall opinion of quality.

here was the back panel before it was fixed

Looks like I'm not the only one..... same interior colors even!

[greg2vlx]

Just a thought...you can buy 2 A-24s cheaper than a 235. 2 trailers, 2 complete wiring harnesses, 2 complete drive trains, twice the vinyl, etc. I realize there are some differences, but not near that much to justify the price difference.

[MadMan]

Just a thought...you can buy 2 A-24s cheaper than a 235. 2 trailers, 2 complete wiring harnesses, 2 complete drive trains, twice the vinyl, etc. I realize there are some differences, but not near that much to justify the price difference.

I believe price is the reason people will buy them, it gives them exclusivity.

[Afun]

I believe price is the reason people will buy them, it gives them exclusivity.

Don't kid yourself....getting yourself an A24 gives you exclusivity also

[skurfer]

Some of the fiberglass dust/shavings rattle loose during shipping. QC manager at BU should start with his/her head in the bilge with a lights, then work backwards..

[ac88926]

Looks like I'm not the only one..... same interior colors even!

I saw a few axis models on the floor with vinyl not lining up too while we were building ours. We must've gotten lucky with ours since everything lines up nicely.

[teamerickson]

Just a thought...you can buy 2 A-24s cheaper than a 235. 2 trailers, 2 complete wiring harnesses, 2 complete drive trains, twice the vinyl, etc. I realize there are some differences, but not near that much to justify the price difference.

Can you drive both at the same time?

[justgary]

So you all blame malibu and not your dealer? What do you think that "dealer prep" charge is for? I spent my high school and college weekends rigging and cleaning boats, and I'm sure they aren't worse now than they were back then.

Yes, the factory workers should pick up after themselves, but ultimately it's your dealer who missed something if you find it later.

[justgary]

When you leave two per boat, you can't afford SnapOn. Just think: what if HFT had a truck, and came by your garage once a week?