M235 - G Killer?

[TenTwentyOne]

1021, what are some examples of upgrades you can get on the MC and not on the G?

Clamping racks

Quad tower racks

Bimini surf sleeves

Speaker LEDs

Multicolor underwater lights

Surf tow points

Transom lounge seats

Forward tower lights

Aft tower lights

Bow remote

I'm prob forgetting a couple.....it's not a lot, but it adds up

[JoeA]

Whos going to buy one for 2016? Total bragging rights,

[Tims]

Whos going to buy one for 2016? Total bragging rights,

Ya....Pony up!! We want to see one of these bad boys in the build sheet app.

[DarkSide]

NOT IT!

[nyryan2001]

With the G and PCM... You can get 550hp for $5k over 450hp by going XR550 vs XS550. You aren't locked into the $15k+ upgrade for the blown Indmar or Raptor 6.2L... Or whatever it is for the MC 7.4L.

[TenTwentyOne]

With the G and PCM... You can get 550hp for $5k over 450hp by going XR550 vs XS550. You aren't locked into the $15k+ upgrade for the blown Indmar or Raptor 6.2L... Or whatever it is for the MC 7.4L.

Great point as well. The XR550 is $13,994 over base engine. It's a perfect option for function over form. The XS550 is $20,050.00 for some fancy manifolds and paint job over the the XR550. It was a great idea for PCM to undress that engine and sell for $6k less.

The Ilmore 7.4 is $19k MSRP, which makes the XR550 a pretty good bargain. In all honesty I liked the 7.4l better simply for the character of that engine, but the XR550 is a quiet, calm, power plant right up until you roll the throttle. That is nice a lot of the time as well. Sometimes it's nice to have nothing but a whisper from the engine. Am I getting old?!?

[OxDoc]

Ok. Found everything in my email....

Base G23- $136,761.00

Base X23- $113,490.00

Now, in order for the X23 to be equal in base form, it needs premium audio and touchscreen package ($6700.00), and Gen2 surf ($5320.00)

Total with options to equal the G standard features- $125,510.00

Now we can add the bigger engines....

X23 + 6.2l ($10,430.00) $135,940

G23 + 6.2l ($6800.00) $143,561

You mentioned surf and convenience package on the MC..... Well, that includes a bunch of stuff that you can't get on a G23. The only things left that aren't already on this build is the Bimini and boat cover.....

X23 + Bimini ($1080.00) and cover ($1100.00). It is now up to $138,120.00

G23 + Bimini ($3650.00) and cover ($1103.00). It is now up to $148,314.00

What else can we put in the G and X23...... Tower speakers?

X23 + 4 JL 7.7 cans including amp ($3020.00) now up to $141,140.00

G23 + 4 JL 7.7 cans ($3954.00) plus you need tower prep kit ($1199.00) now up to $153,467.00

Most of the other options are about the same cost, and this leaves out the design pack for the G which is about 4K, and leaves out the upgraded tower option on the MC which is about 5k but has clamping racks and the option for quad racks. Neither can be ordered on the G23. You can however order PTM racks and adapters from Roswell to put them on. You will spend 4K for that, so it is essentially a wash on those.

Another thing to consider is there are a lot more options available on the MC that you can't get on the G. It will add up, and you can get the prices up about the same, but that won't be equally optioned comparisons. If you fully load a G, and then put the same options on an X23, the X23 will have a lower MSRP by about 8-15k.... All of these numbers are pulled directly from 2016 price lists for these two boats.

I don't know what to tell you exept that the two boat's I built have the same options and I was quoted 135,000 and change for the x23 and $130,000 for the G. I believe you when you say that you can get the x23 cheaper, but I can't. I'm in Atlanta and not at home right now so here is what I can remenber from my build sheets: G23; colored bottom, flake main and front, black accent. White interior gel. Heater, heated driver and observer, fender pro, duel battery, battery charger, surf select, bimini, cover, bow cushion, h 6 motor, trailer black, 18" black wheels and tires, spare tire, back steps on trailer and boat buckle transom straps. Probably more options but I can't remember them. The x23 has the same options with 6.2 engine and convience package. Also, I would'nt say that the surf and convience package includes alot of things that doesn't come on the G. I would say you need all those things to be equal to the G, except no ski pylon on the G.

Edited October 23, 2015 by OxDoc

[augie09]

Rumor has it this thing is pushing 10k with stock ballast full?

Might as well install a 1,000 gallon gas tank by the dock.

#loansforgas

Edited October 23, 2015 by augie09

[saxton15]

Clamping racks

Quad tower racks

Bimini surf sleeves

Speaker LEDs

Multicolor underwater lights

Surf tow points

Transom lounge seats

Forward tower lights

Aft tower lights

Bow remote

I'm prob forgetting a couple.....it's not a lot, but it adds up

Yeah definitely nothing major.

[nyryan2001]

Augie, mine is 7000lbs empty floating empty in the water and ~8700 on the trailer. My boat is roughly 500lbs heavier than stock boat due to lead and extra batteries.

Add OEM ballast, 200lbs lead, gear and ~1000lbs extra ballast I surf ~11,000lb every weekend.

I average 8gph surfing at 2900rpm. For 24mph pro wake with this same 11k in weight, expect ~12-14gph at 3300-3500rpm If they truly optimize the prop size, prop shaft angle and gear to power ratios, they should be able to beat these numbers.

[Afun]

Rumor has it this thing is pushing 10k with stock ballast full?

Might as well install a 1,000 gallon gas tank by the dock.

#loansforgas

Just think what the rollers on this thing could do....I thought my rollers were big. I'm little ninja now.

[TenTwentyOne]

I don't know what to tell you exept that the two boat's I built have the same options and I was quoted 135,000 and change for the x23 and $130,000 for the G. I believe you when you say that you can get the x23 cheaper, but I can't. I'm in Atlanta and not at home right now so here is what I can remenber from my build sheets: G23; colored bottom, flake main and front, black accent. White interior gel. Heater, heated driver and observer, fender pro, duel battery, battery charger, surf select, bimini, cover, bow cushion, h 6 motor, trailer black, 18" black wheels and tires, spare tire, back steps on trailer and boat buckle transom straps. Probably more options but I can't remember them. The x23 has the same options with 6.2 engine and convience package. Also, I would'nt say that the surf and convience package includes alot of things that doesn't come on the G. I would say you need all those things to be equal to the G, except no ski pylon on the G.

I definitely get what you are saying, but when you throw on the surf and convenience pack, you are jumping from a tower that has bungee racks, and doesn't lock down for trailering (just like the G), up to one that has clamping surf/wake racks, can be locked down, covered, and trailered that way, has surf tow points (useless IMO but are an added feature that makes it a little nicer for back seat passengers and beginner surfers), has Bimini sleeves for 4 boards, and can be equipped with quad clamping racks. You can also fold that tower and cover with your boards still on the racks. In order to add just the clamping racks to the G, you will spend 4K+ for the Roswell adapters, PTM swivels, and PTM racks.

You also get the fancy billet transom go pro swivel mount with surf and convenience pack......

Now, for most people, a lot of the above features that the ZFT4 has are not really a big deal at all, and probably considered a waste of money by most. Had I not had them before, and then switched to a boat without them, I would probably think the same. However, I miss those features big time, and will be at least converting to clamping racks, and sewing in some surf sleeves. Now that a lot of the newer Bu owners have nice swivel clamp racks, I think it would be hard for a lot of them to go back, even though they are expensive as heck.....

I certainly believe you, oxdoc. But I also believe there might be a little pricing game going on...... One other factor for you might be the trailer. An MC trailer cost more than a boatmate. I always just went with boat mate trailers for my MCs..... Same with the G.

Both manufacturers have standard nationwide MSRP pricing, and I am simply quoting that. If both dealers are using the actual MSRP basis as a starting point (which they should), this pricing should apply. For kicks, I will do the pricing for your builds above.... They will be closer because of the added features on the X23 with S and C.

G23 base- $136,761

Bottom color $1141.00

Flake front $1509.00

Flake main $2309.00

Accent color $498.00

Heater $756.00 (another note- MC heater includes a circulation pump which improves heat by 2x +)

Heated seats $898.00

Phender pro $678.00

Surf select $886.00

Bimini $3650.00

Boat cover $1103.00

Surf tow point $189.00

H6 6.2l $6797.00

Total MSRP- $157,175.00 (about 163k with boatmate trailer, before discounts)

X23 base- $113,490.00

Flake main 1 $1590.00

Flake main 2 $1070.00

Hull bottom color $1070.00

Surf and Convenience includes - ZFT4 tower, Gen2 surf system, 7" touchscreen, premium JL audio system, Bimini with surf sleeves, boat cover, transom go pro mount, tower go pro mount, tracking fins (standard on X23 and most other models), surf tow points, attitude plate (standard if gen2 is ordered seperate), clamping racks, and removable pylon.

S&C $22,400.00

Heater $1020.00

Heated seats $660.00

Phender pro $590.00

6.2 Ilmore $10,430.00

Total MSRP $152,320.00 (about 158k with boatmate trailer and before discounts)

That is comparing the two exactly like you stated, and with the X23 having more features. Simply throwing a set of clamping racks into the equation and the gap is 10k again.

If your MSRP prices aren't what I show above, I would not be using that dealer......

Based on your discount percentages your quotes should be about-

G23- roughly 132k (19% discount)

X23- roughly 121k (23% discount)

Terrible thread jack we got going on here

Although maybe this will stimulate Bu to give us more M235 info, so we can have some on topic stuff to talk about! If nothing else, maybe this info will help us see where the M235 is going to fall into the pricing mix.

I 100% believe what you are saying oxdoc, and at one time MC and CC didn't have standard nationwide pricing. This would allow dealers to almost make up what they wanted to charge as a MSRP, so they could show even bigger discounts. However, that has changed, and all the dealers are supposed to adhere to the standardized price basis. (Mostly so these manufacturers don't have to deal with territory headaches because of variances in dealer pricing MSRPs)

I think that MC dealer might not be following protocol.... And I would certainly call them out on it.

Edited October 23, 2015 by TenTwentyOne

[thtrog]

My dealer says M pricing/info will not be released until dealer meetings in 3 weeks.

[bamabonners]

Based on your discount percentages your quotes should be about-

G23- roughly 132k (19% discount)

X23- roughly 121k (23% discount)

I can buy two T22 for those prices. Those prices are insane. You boys are playing in a league I am not familiar with.... Edited October 23, 2015 by bamabonners

[ac88926]

Rumor has it this thing is pushing 10k with stock ballast full?

Might as well install a 1,000 gallon gas tank by the dock.

#loansforgas

Yep, 3,000 stock ballast and ~7,000 dry weight. Right there at 10,000

[85 Barefoot]

I suggest renaming the site to: "planet team talk crew"

[PrestigeLakeWide]

I definitely get what you are saying, but when you throw on the surf and convenience pack, you are jumping from a tower that has bungee racks, and doesn't lock down for trailering (just like the G), up to one that has clamping surf/wake racks, can be locked down, covered, and trailered that way, has surf tow points (useless IMO but are an added feature that makes it a little nicer for back seat passengers and beginner surfers), has Bimini sleeves for 4 boards, and can be equipped with quad clamping racks. You can also fold that tower and cover with your boards still on the racks. In order to add just the clamping racks to the G, you will spend 4K+ for the Roswell adapters, PTM swivels, and PTM racks.

You also get the fancy billet transom go pro swivel mount with surf and convenience pack......

Now, for most people, a lot of the above features that the ZFT4 has are not really a big deal at all, and probably considered a waste of money by most. Had I not had them before, and then switched to a boat without them, I would probably think the same. However, I miss those features big time, and will be at least converting to clamping racks, and sewing in some surf sleeves. Now that a lot of the newer Bu owners have nice swivel clamp racks, I think it would be hard for a lot of them to go back, even though they are expensive as heck.....

I certainly believe you, oxdoc. But I also believe there might be a little pricing game going on...... One other factor for you might be the trailer. An MC trailer cost more than a boatmate. I always just went with boat mate trailers for my MCs..... Same with the G.

Both manufacturers have standard nationwide MSRP pricing, and I am simply quoting that. If both dealers are using the actual MSRP basis as a starting point (which they should), this pricing should apply. For kicks, I will do the pricing for your builds above.... They will be closer because of the added features on the X23 with S and C.

G23 base- $136,761

Bottom color $1141.00

Flake front $1509.00

Flake main $2309.00

Accent color $498.00

Heater $756.00 (another note- MC heater includes a circulation pump which improves heat by 2x +)

Heated seats $898.00

Phender pro $678.00

Surf select $886.00

Bimini $3650.00

Boat cover $1103.00

Surf tow point $189.00

H6 6.2l $6797.00

Total MSRP- $157,175.00 (about 163k with boatmate trailer, before discounts)

X23 base- $113,490.00

Flake main 1 $1590.00

Flake main 2 $1070.00

Hull bottom color $1070.00

Surf and Convenience includes - ZFT4 tower, Gen2 surf system, 7" touchscreen, premium JL audio system, Bimini with surf sleeves, boat cover, transom go pro mount, tower go pro mount, tracking fins (standard on X23 and most other models), surf tow points, attitude plate (standard if gen2 is ordered seperate), clamping racks, and removable pylon.

S&C $22,400.00

Heater $1020.00

Heated seats $660.00

Phender pro $590.00

6.2 Ilmore $10,430.00

Total MSRP $152,320.00 (about 158k with boatmate trailer and before discounts)

That is comparing the two exactly like you stated, and with the X23 having more features. Simply throwing a set of clamping racks into the equation and the gap is 10k again.

If your MSRP prices aren't what I show above, I would not be using that dealer......

Based on your discount percentages your quotes should be about-

G23- roughly 132k (19% discount)

X23- roughly 121k (23% discount)

Terrible thread jack we got going on here

Although maybe this will stimulate Bu to give us more M235 info, so we can have some on topic stuff to talk about! If nothing else, maybe this info will help us see where the M235 is going to fall into the pricing mix.

I 100% believe what you are saying oxdoc, and at one time MC and CC didn't have standard nationwide pricing. This would allow dealers to almost make up what they wanted to charge as a MSRP, so they could show even bigger discounts. However, that has changed, and all the dealers are supposed to adhere to the standardized price basis. (Mostly so these manufacturers don't have to deal with territory headaches because of variances in dealer pricing MSRPs)

I think that MC dealer might not be following protocol.... And I would certainly call them out on it.

Discussions like this are awesome and healthy for a board like this. Great breakdown.. stuff like this and DarkSide's builds are why I keep coming back here.

[DarkSide]

As scary as 10k sounds there are a lot of us there already. The awesome thing about this boat is it is there from the factory. No lead, no custom sacs, just straight from the factory, ready to rock.

On a side note I have heard the hull changes on the 2016 G23 changed its wave significantly. Supposedly wave gets worse when you weight over stock. Yes wave gets bigger, but loses its definition.

[Fman]

Hard to believe you can buy 4-5 of these for the price of a new Malibu M235. (FFR Mark III 427 AC Cobra - kit). Is it me or are these prices are reaching a point of just being ridiculous??? Even $140k sounds off the chart crazy....it is going to be interesting to see how many of these Malibu actually sells in 2016. And if the surf wave is actually any better than the LSV.

[TenTwentyOne]

I suggest renaming the site to: "planet team talk crew"

I hear ya..... I ran off topic a bit there, but we got nothing to talk about on the M235! We need more info

Bama- it is certainly crazy to think about. I am certainly a little ashamed to say that I wouldn't even consider an axis, which is sad considering their performance capabilities..... I have become a wakeboat snob, and I just can't see beyond the little differences that save a ton of money on the price point brands.

[DarkSide]

Fman, you are correct prices are out of control. But it is not just boats. Price a new diesel truck. Unfortunately I don't see pricing going down any time soon. Especially as malibu and Mastercraft both expanded factories to meet demand.

[TenTwentyOne]

Hard to believe you can buy 4-5 of these for the price of a new Malibu M235. (FFR Mark III 427 AC Cobra - kit). Is it me or are these prices are reaching a point of just being ridiculous??? Even $140k sounds off the chart crazy....it is going to be interesting to see how many of these Malibu actually sells in 2016. And if the surf wave is actually any better than the LSV.

Kit car though..... That's like going to Brazil and buying a MasterBoat WakeStar

The real fun way to think about it, would be, how many M235s could you buy for the price of a real AC Cobra 427?!? That makes these big wake boats look like a bargain!!

[bamabonners]

I hear ya..... I ran off topic a bit there, but we got nothing to talk about on the M235! We need more info

Bama- it is certainly crazy to think about. I am certainly a little ashamed to say that I wouldn't even consider an axis, which is sad considering their performance capabilities..... I have become a wakeboat snob, and I just can't see beyond the little differences that save a ton of money on the price point brands.

Why are you a wake boat snob? Think about it for a minute here. What does the G and mc do that a cheaper boat doesn't? Yes the presets, but both have great performance, cruise, ballast, stereo, towers, racks,etc... There is simply no way to justify that kind of price other than snob appeal. Few differences in construction, but I bet that all 3 boats will be around and operating in 15 years.

I'm not trying to single you out or make you explain anything. I'm just talking generics.

Edited October 23, 2015 by bamabonners

[NorrisMike]

Why are you a wake boat snob? Think about it for a minute here. What does the G and mc do that a cheaper boat doesn't? Yes the presets, but both have great performance, cruise, ballast, stereo, towers, racks,etc... There is simply no way to justify that kind of price other than snob appeal. Few differences in construction, but I bet that all 3 boats will be around and operating in 15 years.

I'm not trying to single you out or make you explain anything. I'm just talking generics.

There are a few things that would keep me out of an Axis. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective.

Kind of like buying hunting boots... The following would fit the bill, right? Doesn't mean I am buying them because they are cheaper.

I'd rather go with something like these...

even despite the fact these are 5x more money...

[IXFE]

Why are you a wake boat snob? Think about it for a minute here. What does the G and mc do that a cheaper boat doesn't? Yes the presets, but both have great performance, cruise, ballast, stereo, towers, racks,etc... There is simply no way to justify that kind of price other than snob appeal. Few differences in construction, but I bet that all 3 boats will be around and operating in 15 years.

I'm not trying to single you out or make you explain anything. I'm just talking generics.

I think he said he was a "wakeBOAT" snob. That's different than being a "wake" snob.