New vinyl

[TenTwentyOne]

I hear what you are saying, but when I was at the Mastercraft factory last November, several boats had this same material in them , so if they quit using it completely I would suspect it was just this model year. In fact , I demoed a 2015 x23 that had it in now that I think of it.

The brand new 2016 G23 at surf expo in the correct craft booth also had this "material" mixed in with traditional vinyl , so not sure what was going on there. I asked the factory reps there the same question and they all seem to believe it's bomb proof at this stage in the game.

I have my opinion wether it is or not, but time will obviously tell .

We must not be talking about the same thing.....

in 2011-2014 MC X series had 2 different kinds of vinyl in their boats. They had white, platinum, and gray in a breathable vinyl, with a "carbon weave" pattern pressed into it. The colored vinyl was a breathable woven vinyl, that was more like sunbrella material (not the same, but similar). This is the material I thought you were talking about.

in '15 and '16, MC X series has the light base colors in the same type of breathable pressed pattern vinyl, except it is more of a dimensional cube type pattern in it. They got rid of the woven vinyl, and started using a new smooth vinyl for the colors, which is 1000% easier to clean than the woven product it replaced. It is still a "stay cool" vinyl, but doesn't stay as cool as the fabric type.

Nautique does use a patterned vinyl on their "texture" areas. These are the small areas surrounding the logo's and the small center back pads on the observer, and bow seats. This product is pressed with a sort of weave pattern, but is not breathable, and is not a "cool vinyl".

All of that said, it was the fabric type vinyl that was hard to clean, not the pressed pattern stuff. That was super easy to clean. Never stained it at all (Had 5 different boats with it).

Edited October 5, 2015 by TenTwentyOne

[IXFE]

This is a Malibu site and I'm fairly certain they're not going to let anyone start running down or start negative trending messages about a feature or materials being used on their boats. No company wants bad press especially on something that is core to their entire product line.

There's always risk/reward to change and switching up interior materials is a real risk. "Buzz" like what's being created here may well effect sales especially from the "faithful" come boat show season. Just based on what I'm hearing so far at a minimum I'd be looking for assurances beyond the norm or putting off a purchase until I felt comfortable with the new product and let others take the risk. New boats are not cheap and I only get to replace mine every 5 years or so if I'm lucky. It could also negatively effect resale of these boats should the interior material go bust. MC had some real issues with vinyl in the 01 - 04 years and I advise people to steer clear or plan for the expense of a new interior when looking at these boats.

Is this your first day on TMC? IDK... it says you joined in 2011, but you obviously don't spend much time here. If you did, you'd realize how ignorant this statement is. Not only does Malibu no own this site, but I would argue that no boat brand receives more criticism on this site than Malibu. That deleted vinyl thread was kid's play compared to some of the criticism lobbed at Malibu over the years on this site. I'm fairly certain that thread was shut down due to a TOU issue. Save your conspiracy theories.

I also think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that a change in vinyl material will hurt Malibu sales. You do realize you're making this claim based on ONE thread on ONE obscure enthusiast forum with a few dozen followers, right? By that standard the following changes should have also killed sales, cuz each of these changes/issues was beat to death on this forum (way more than the '16 vinyl):

• G3 tower
• G4 tower
• Axis dash
• Axis tower
• Maliview
• VTX/LSV cyclops dash
• MXZ introduction (gasp... pickleforks!)
• Malibu carpet
• Low captain's chair
• Transom seating
• RF stereo
• Surf Gate
• Surf band
• Malibu QC
• Malibu Factory
• Malibu pricing
• etc.
• etc.
• etc.

And yet market share is growing, primarily at the expense of MC and Supra.

[thtrog]

Watching closely...especially after just selling my perfectly good '15.

[TenTwentyOne]

One thing I would like to see....... Market share data that is not over 2 years old. Can't really say "Market Share is growing", when we have 0 data, that is less than 2 years old, to support it.

[Tims]

One thing I would like to see....... Market share data that is not over 2 years old. Can't really say "Market Share is growing", when we have 0 data, that is less than 2 years old, to support it.

I agree. It would be interesting to see how all the competitions new models since 2013 have affected the pie.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Can you really judge the durability of it by "looks" alone?

I've now demod TWO of the new Wakesetters and to me the new vinyl feels stronger and tougher than what I'm used to. I concur with Baws that it feels much more like the modern MC's I've been in.

I haven't tried to clean it yet, so maybe there's some validity to that argument. Oh, and I haven't dragged a wakeboard fin or a switchblade across it either. LOL.

It's not vinyl at all. I was able to pinch it, pull it up off the foam core, stretch it & feel how thin it is. It felt almost like a spandex, maybe a bit thicker though. And the fact that I was able to pull it up off the foam told me that it is not adhered to the foam (which has been a source of mildew problems for some time now).

[Afun]

The Vinyl sounds like a fail. Let's see what develops. I can only imagine sales for 2013 - 2015 must have gone Malibu's way. Only now is when people are probably deciding between which surf system they want. So at least 2013 & 2014 were major sales gains for Malibu.

[Cory]

The Vinyl sounds like a fail. Let's see what develops. I can only imagine sales for 2013 - 2015 must have gone Malibu's way. Only now is when people are probably deciding between which surf system they want. So at least 2013 & 2014 were major sales gains for Malibu.

I think it is too early to call it a fail. This is how I currently see the new vinyl:

Known Subjective Benefits Today:

1) looks nice, a lot more interesting detail to it

2) feels nice to the touch (inviting to the touch)

Speculative Objective Benefit (time will tell):

1) darker colors don't get as hot in the sun

Speculative Objective Negative:

1) harder to keep clean

Highly Speculative Negative:

1) tears/punctures easier

Edited October 5, 2015 by Cory

[oldjeep]

Curious if it is the same type of stay cool vinyl that Gekko can get. The CEO has some solid black seats in his personal boat that feel like fabric and don't seem to get hot at all in the sun.

[DarkSide]

All I can say is my moonbeam vinyl will burn your feet/hands/arms I would welcome a cooler material.

I have not looked closely at 16 vinyl, is all of it textured or is some of it still "smooth?

Edited October 5, 2015 by DarkSide

[thtrog]

My experience with the fabric/suede feeling vinyl were in a Epic and MC, both black. Being dark colors I have no idea how hard they were to keep clean, was never mentioned as a concern. I do know the MC had a cut just a few weeks old, it was from just opening and closing the observers seat. As far as getting hot, I witnessed them peel a life jacket off the seat someone threw in the boat during lunch...melted purple vinyl didn't look good on the interior. Hopefully if the change is a true issue, Malibu will react soon.

[Sixer]

Go to the Malibu Homepage: http://www.malibuboats.com/home.html

On the lower right hand corner, there's an icon you can click that says "Forum" that will bring you to TMC.

[85 Barefoot]

All I can say is my moonbeam vinyl will burn your feet/hands/arms I would welcome a cooler material.

I have not looked closely at 16 vinyl, is all of it textured or is some of it still "smooth?

Yes. And its my understanding you can delete. Not familiar with M-grain deletes (or whatever it was called) in the past but apparently you can do similar. Point of note, it IS vinyl. The plasticisers are just different and rolled to give a fabric-like "feel". But it ain't fabric.

Edited October 5, 2015 by 85 Barefoot

[DarkSide]

85,

That is exactly where I was going. I did M-Grain delete on my 15. So it is all smooth and super easy to clean.

[wakebrdr94]

Can you really judge the durability of it by "looks" alone?

I've now demod TWO of the new Wakesetters and to me the new vinyl feels stronger and tougher than what I'm used to. I concur with Baws that it feels much more like the modern MC's I've been in.

I haven't tried to clean it yet, so maybe there's some validity to that argument. Oh, and I haven't dragged a wakeboard fin or a switchblade across it either. LOL.

It does not feel any stronger to me, but I can say it has been tougher to clean. Instead of a tear, I have seen it frayed. Although I did not take a picutre of it, but I will when I see the boat again.

[IXFE]

One thing I would like to see....... Market share data that is not over 2 years old. Can't really say "Market Share is growing", when we have 0 data, that is less than 2 years old, to support it.

Yes, that particular chart is 2 years old. It covers 2008 - 2013 market share movement. However, it's relevant in the context of my response to Bturner, who claimed that Malibu's market share would suffer because of the new vinyl. I used it to illustrate the point that the long list of changes and issues I posted mostly occurred during that period and Malibu/Axis grew market share during that period despite the product issues / perceptions expressed on this forum. In essense, Bturner is saying the sky is falling over this ONE thread. I'm calling bull honkey!

I also want to address the fact that TWICE now you've correctly stated that the market share chart is outdated. I agree. Unfortunately, it's all we have in this sort of easily shareable, visual format. But I don't agree that the message is outdated, which is really what you're insinuating. If you listen to MBUU's quarterly earnings call, they have been dropping little hints around market share every quarter. And every hint leads to the same conclusion... they are not losing ground. The volume data supports this. MBUU grew volume 9% in 2014 and 17% in 2015. Hard to believe they could lose share with that kind of growth.

[TenTwentyOne]

Yes, that particular chart is 2 years old. It covers 2008 - 2013 market share movement. However, it's relevant in the context of my response to Bturner, who claimed that Malibu's market share would suffer because of the new vinyl. I used it to illustrate the point that the long list of changes and issues I posted mostly occurred during that period and Malibu/Axis grew market share during that period despite the product issues / perceptions expressed on this forum. In essense, Bturner is saying the sky is falling over this ONE thread. I'm calling bull honkey!

I also want to address the fact that TWICE now you've correctly stated that the market share chart is outdated. I agree. Unfortunately, it's all we have in this sort of easily shareable, visual format. But I don't agree that the message is outdated, which is really what you're insinuating. If you listen to MBUU's quarterly earnings call, they have been dropping little hints around market share every quarter. And every hint leads to the same conclusion... they are not losing ground. The volume data supports this. MBUU grew volume 9% in 2014 and 17% in 2015. Hard to believe they could lose share with that kind of growth.

well, to be fair.......... That chart gets thrown out every time somebody feels like insinuating that Malibu is still running away with the market. Well, are they? We don't know anything since that was put out in 2013. I would think, that if they were still growing market share, they would be putting out more recent charts. Growing volume doesn't mean anything in 2014 and 2015. The whole market is growing very rapidly. Every boat company is growing right now....

Dropping little hints about market share?? Well, of course they are!

[DarkSide]

The other "hint" was they were seeing pressure and losing slight market share to the budget segment. They expected all of the big 3, to see similar results. This is also not surprising, MB and Supra have upped thier game significantly in the past couple years.

[IXFE]

well, to be fair.......... That chart gets thrown out every time somebody feels like insinuating that Malibu is still running away with the market. Well, are they? We don't know anything since that was put out in 2013. I would think, that if they were still growing market share, they would be putting out more recent charts. Growing volume doesn't mean anything in 2014 and 2015. The whole market is growing very rapidly. Every boat company is growing right now....

Dropping little hints about market share?? Well, of course they are!

I've shared that chart exactly 3 times, each time with a specific purpose. Is it perfect? No. But it is representative of a massive shift that has occurred in the inboard market since 2008. I'm not sure why you keep nit picking it without offering something better. All I do is keep throwing real published data at you, and all you do is say, "yeah but..."

You think the market is growing faster than 17%...? Maybe. Show me the data.

And when I say "dropping hints" I mean telling us they are not losing share. In the last earnings call they called H1'15 market share as "flat." See page 6

[TenTwentyOne]

So....... That would be why there isn't a new chart. That was my "specific purpose" to asking. Nothing exceptional to show, don't bother showing it.

"About flat" doesn't mean they are still gaining share.

Oh.... And MC unit volume grew 19% for 2015. So, yes, I would say the market is booming.

Edited October 5, 2015 by TenTwentyOne

[IXFE]

So....... That would be why there isn't a new chart. That was my "specific purpose" to asking. Nothing exceptional to show, don't bother showing it.

"About flat" doesn't mean they are still gaining share.

Oh.... And MC unit volume grew 19% for 2015. So, yes, I would say the market is booming.

Where did I claim they were still gaining?

And you do realize the "about flat" was just a TWO QUARTER data point. It doesn't capture the missing EIGHT QUARTERS.

Look, I'm going to disengage now as clearly you're here just to be argumentative. Either provide a new chart or stop nit picking.

[TenTwentyOne]

And yet market share is growing, primarily at the expense of MC and Supra.

........

Provide a new chart?? I'm being argumentative?

I said I would like to see a new chart...... That was the WHOLE point of my post. You used the chart as evidence to justify the above statement. I have no idea how it isn't fair to question 2 year old sales data that is being referenced to back up a statement on current sales.

Let's just keep that chart around for another few years. Post it in 2017 with a statement like "and they are probably up to 50% market share by now!"

Old data is old data.

[Ronnie]

Lets stop picking each other's posts apart and back to the topic of the new vinyl pros & cons. You guys can take it to PM if you feel the need to continue it. Lets not get this thread archived too.

[catalac]

I would consider the sales growth charts to be a direct reflection on why Malibu seems to have cheapened materials and QC seems pretty weak. Namely if they are reducing costs while growing sales management would call that a win.

Our local dealer has gone from zero to 50/50 Malibu Nautique in 3-4 years, and after 4 Malibus I might be another in 16 haven't decided yet.

Back to the vinyl argue all you want most who see it will quickly understand why this thread started.

[IXFE]

........

Provide a new chart?? I'm being argumentative?

I said I would like to see a new chart...... That was the WHOLE point of my post. You used the chart as evidence to justify the above statement. I have no idea how it isn't fair to question 2 year old sales data that is being referenced to back up a statement on current sales.

Let's just keep that chart around for another few years. Post it in 2017 with a statement like "and they are probably up to 50% market share by now!"

Old data is old data.

You took it out of context. I already explained that once. Not sure why it's not sinking in.