Why 2016 Wakesetter LSV over MC X30

[DarkSide]

I toured both factories in June. They are very very similar. As previously noted MC custom cuts their fiberglass. BU hand cuts thiers. I give BU the advantage in GEL, MC uses draped off paint room style,BU has super filtration system.

End of the day both are built remarkably well. Between x30 or 23LSV there is np wrong choice.

[Indyxc]

The Wakesetter was a 2004, and the Mastercraft 2006. A 2006 Wakesetter would of been a better comparison, but close enough. Just my take in general:

-Vinyl was thicker and of better quality on the Mastercraft

-Plastics used on the MC were thicker and visually appeared to be better quality.

-Fit and finish on the mastercraft were better. No loose bolts, no random washers laying around, corners all chamfered, no sharp edges, etc.

-Wiring was far superior on the MC. High grade water proof plugs were used, everything was loomed, wiring was very clean, mounting of electrical components was rock solid, everything looked like the design and attention to detail was high. Malibu wasn't bad, it was just not done as well.

-Design elements of the board racks, tower, ballast pumps, dripless shaft, were things done in 2006 by MC, that Malibu didn't do until recently.

Now as far as hull, I can't comment on that, because i never did a direct comparison. However, the boats were about the same age when I sold them, and the MC had 0 spider cracks in the gel, while the Malibu had a few.

At the end of the day it's about value. To me the Mastercraft was top notch, but the price was high. To me, I didn't think the added price justified that added quality. Hence I sold it, upgraded to a 2012 Axis a20, which was cheaper than my 2006 Mastercraft X2. From a pure boating watersports perspective the a20 is more value, and a better wakeboat.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Indyxc

[ibelonginprison]

k, thx, bye.

That's my wife's license plate, fwiw.

[CJAY]

Malibu doesn't hide using a "gun" in their factory tour or on the video. It's used for the barrier after the gel had gone down. They follow that with the hand laid glass.

I'm struggling to understand how guys think that's bad?

As for rough water ride, I doubt very much it has anything to hull thickness (go back to the math). Probably more related to hull shape. Malibu's are basically ski boats on the bottom. This is my opinion on the matter... an opinion that's informed by math. LOL

Hull shape is exactly it. My buddies Rz2 blows away every MC, BU, and Nautique I've been in with rough water ride due to their deep v hull, it helps cut through the chop. It has zero to do with fiberglass thickness, unless some how tige beats them all in fiberglass thickness, maybe hulk should do his push test on a tige..... BU's handle great due to their more flat bottom hull, but that also makes them slap the chop for a much rougher ride in rough water

[gordon20mxz]

The Wakesetter was a 2004, and the Mastercraft 2006. A 2006 Wakesetter would of been a better comparison, but close enough. Just my take in general:

-Vinyl was thicker and of better quality on the Mastercraft

-Plastics used on the MC were thicker and visually appeared to be better quality.

-Fit and finish on the mastercraft were better. No loose bolts, no random washers laying around, corners all chamfered, no sharp edges, etc.

-Wiring was far superior on the MC. High grade water proof plugs were used, everything was loomed, wiring was very clean, mounting of electrical components was rock solid, everything looked like the design and attention to detail was high. Malibu wasn't bad, it was just not done as well.

-Design elements of the board racks, tower, ballast pumps, dripless shaft, were things done in 2006 by MC, that Malibu didn't do until recently.

Now as far as hull, I can't comment on that, because i never did a direct comparison. However, the boats were about the same age when I sold them, and the MC had 0 spider cracks in the gel, while the Malibu had a few.

At the end of the day it's about value. To me the Mastercraft was top notch, but the price was high. To me, I didn't think the added price justified that added quality. Hence I sold it, upgraded to a 2012 Axis a20, which was cheaper than my 2006 Mastercraft X2. From a pure boating watersports perspective the a20 is more value, and a better wakeboat.

All of your points and you conclusion are well taken. Good post.

[Tims]

Malibu doesn't hide using a "gun" in their factory tour or on the video. It's used for the barrier after the gel had gone down. They follow that with the hand laid glass.

I'm struggling to understand how guys think that's bad?

As for rough water ride, I doubt very much it has anything to hull thickness (go back to the math). Probably more related to hull shape. Malibu's are basically ski boats on the bottom. This is my opinion on the matter... an opinion that's informed by math. LOL

Who said it was bad??? No one that I can see in the posts so you can stop struggling. And the X30 is more of a flat bottom boat similar to the BU's shape.

[85 Barefoot]

The Wakesetter was a 2004, and the Mastercraft 2006. A 2006 Wakesetter would of been a better comparison, but close enough. Just my take in general:

-Vinyl was thicker and of better quality on the Mastercraft

-Plastics used on the MC were thicker and visually appeared to be better quality.

-Fit and finish on the mastercraft were better. No loose bolts, no random washers laying around, corners all chamfered, no sharp edges, etc.

-Wiring was far superior on the MC. High grade water proof plugs were used, everything was loomed, wiring was very clean, mounting of electrical components was rock solid, everything looked like the design and attention to detail was high. Malibu wasn't bad, it was just not done as well.

-Design elements of the board racks, tower, ballast pumps, dripless shaft, were things done in 2006 by MC, that Malibu didn't do until recently.

Now as far as hull, I can't comment on that, because i never did a direct comparison. However, the boats were about the same age when I sold them, and the MC had 0 spider cracks in the gel, while the Malibu had a few.

At the end of the day it's about value. To me the Mastercraft was top notch, but the price was high. To me, I didn't think the added price justified that added quality. Hence I sold it, upgraded to a 2012 Axis a20, which was cheaper than my 2006 Mastercraft X2. From a pure boating watersports perspective the a20 is more value, and a better wakeboat.

Actually, I don't know that it is close enough. The X-2 was a new model in 2006 was it not? An 04 VLX was in its sixth year of essentially unchanged design. Literally the only difference between a 99 VLX and 04 was the seat behind the driver filled the gap, knobs were replaced with switches on the dash, there was a new gauge inlay, and they just reshaped the top deck. So, in 2006 you were really comparing a 7 year old boat to a brand new design, materials, and technique. Notably, the VLX of course got redesigned in 05. I'm not saying MC doesn't build nice stuff, they do. But I've also personally had a MC that would flex 4 inches when put on a lift. That has beans to do with comparing a 2016 LSV and X-30.

Edited September 3, 2015 by 85 Barefoot

[Tims]

X30 bottom

LSV

Pretty similar to me, but I don't have IXFE's math skills.

[85 Barefoot]

X30 bottom

LSV

Pretty similar to me, but I don't have IXFE's math skills.

Reason #23 surfgate better than Gen 2: doesn't hold snow

[NWBU]

Good to see that hull shape finally came into the ride quality discussion after a few pages of debate on whether several more fiberglass layers make a difference in it.

What's the difference in fuel consumption between the BU and MC at WOT?

[oldjeep]

Seems like for hull shape differences that effect handling in chop that you would be looking at the bow, not the stern

[CJAY]

X30 bottom

LSV

Pretty similar to me, but I don't have IXFE's math skills.

There has got to be a better pic of the stern of that LSV, i can't make out anything dues to everything being black

[Tims]

Seems like for hull shape differences that effect handling in chop that you would be looking at the bow, not the stern

My test for both is driving over your wake (double up) at wake board speed with full ballast at 23mph. At that speed you are up on plane are riding on the back of the hull. But I am sure the differences you are mentioning impact it as well and I do not know the hull dimensions for either. For sure the LSV handles better and that alone is more important to me.

[thtrog]

The buyer of my '14 LSV took his demo the day after trying out the X-30, he made his decision before we got back to the dock. He was quick to point out handling of the LSV was better, even the response at idle speeds and maneuverability.

[CJAY]

The LSV, for a 23ft boat, handles great. It out handles other brands smaller boats, including the g21 and Rz2 I've driven. The VLX way out handles the LSV though

If you run on a choppy lake though the rough water ride can be a real disadvantage. I love the bu hulls, but if I was on a big lake like ozarks all the time I probably would go with the different brand.

Edited September 3, 2015 by CJAY

[23LSVOwner]

At the time in which I toured them (both times), MC was only using the chopper gun on the top deck assy, which was also primarily hand layed. The hulls were only hand layed..... And they were most certainly putting the barrier coat between the gel and the fiberglass.

Barrier coat might have been before the skin, it has been a little over a year.

Still saw the chop gun used for the skin on the hulls all of the time. In my previous job I got to spend quite a bit of time there.

BTW, do you know the difference between a chop gun skin and a hand laid skin?

Not much at all. Hand laid skin coat is nothing more than CSM(chopped strand mat). Guess what comes out of a chop gun?

The same thing, it's just not in a mat form. Guess which actually has an advantage in being rolled out over edges and radius areas?

The gun. The CSM holds it's "flatness" over the areas and is stretched out (making it thinner) to roll it out into the areas.

Edited September 3, 2015 by 23LSVOwner

[willyt]

haha I come over here from TT just to look at this thread. You guys are entertaining!

as a person that has a stake in neither boat (my river has a 22 ft limit). For goodness sake, shutup and go demo both: buy the one you like more.

[IXFE]

Since this is about the X30 vs LSV, we know that the X30 is 200 pounds heavier and a few inches shorter than the LSV. We also know that the Malibu is a chopper gun build vs hand laid. So safe to assume that the X30 has a bit more glass? Perhaps that is why they ride a bit better in the chop. Both hulls will go the distance, but the MC usually gets high marks for ride in the chop and low marks for handling vs the LSV.

Things to consider. Personally, I would rather have the better handling.

Who said it was bad??? No one that I can see in the posts so you can stop struggling. And the X30 is more of a flat bottom boat similar to the BU's shape.

You seemed to imply the gun was inferior when you incorrectly stated that Malibu was a "chopper gun build" as opposed to Mastercraft which is hand laid.

Now that I look back at that post, I realize it's blatantly wrong. Not only is it not correct to call a Malibu a "chopper gun build" but the X-30 is 4" longer, not shorter than the LSV.

Then when I correct you (with proof) that Malibu is actually hand laid with 8 layers, you magically come back with "MC uses 20 something layers."

Then when I ask you if you think that means the MC hull is 150% thicker than a Bu hull (because that's exactly what 20 vs. 8 would imply), you decline to back it up.

Arguing with you is a waste of my time. There is zero logic in anything you're saying or implying, you can't get even the most basic facts right, and when I ask you to draw conclusions based on your incorrect facts there's no follow through.

[ibelonginprison]

rule #1 of the internet...

[IXFE]

Guys... this is the last post I'm going to make in this thread. After that you can call me whatever names you want and even disparage my religion.

I remember when I was first boat shopping (10 years ago) I walked into the local MC dealer. When I told them I was looking at new MB's in addition to used MC's, I got the full court press from the sales rep on hull thickness. He even had a pouch full of hull plugs supposedly pulled from various boats; each one was labeled with a sharpie what boat it was from. As you might expect, the MC plug was the thickest. I didn't buy that crap then, and I don't buy it now.

One of my close friends is a boat designer in the industry. I confirmed with him yesterday that 60% of a boat's weight is attributable to fiberglass (again... checking my facts). That means the fiberglass of a 23 LSV weights aprox. 2,700 lbs. If you really believe that MC uses 20 layers vs. 8 you must also believe that the fiberglass alone in an X30 weighs 6,750 lbs. Ummm, okay.... Even if I discount Tims completely ridiculous statement about "20 something" layers and assume MC is only 25% thicker (i.e. 10 layers vs. 8), that would mean the X30 weights 700 lbs. more than a 23 LSV (all else equal). I don't buy it and neither should you, unless you have an agenda.

Funny note about that salesman... he later went on to sell the very MB's he was disparaging that day, and now he's selling different brands altogether. So much for that sales pitch! And that pouch full of hull plugs... I later saw them at other MC dealers (many of you have seen them too). Clearly this was a sales ploy invented and proliferated by MC headquarters. My boat designer friend once told me that hull thickness varies depending where you're looking and those MC hull plugs were not all taken from the same place.

Bottom line... you will drive yourself crazy trying to get to the bottom of the hull thickness mystery. Rather than do that, just use your head. Use math. The boats all weigh roughly the same. And fiberglass is 60% of the equation. And just remember where this all started... an MC sales pitch.

Good day, fellas

[23LSVOwner]

Then when I correct you (with proof) that Malibu is actually hand laid with 8 layers, you magically come back with "MC uses 20 something layers."

Crap, I missed that gem. 20 layers of glass in a MC hull is a flat out flasehood.

[Tims]

You seemed to imply the gun was inferior when you incorrectly stated that Malibu was a "chopper gun build" as opposed to Mastercraft which is hand laid.

Now that I look back at that post, I realize it's blatantly wrong. Not only is it not correct to call a Malibu a "chopper gun build" but the X-30 is 4" longer, not shorter than the LSV.

Then when I correct you (with proof) that Malibu is actually hand laid with 8 layers, you magically come back with "MC uses 20 something layers."

Then when I ask you if you think that means the MC hull is 150% thicker than a Bu hull (because that's exactly what 20 vs. 8 would imply), you decline to back it up.

Arguing with you is a waste of my time. There is zero logic in anything you're saying or implying, you can't get even the most basic facts right, and when I ask you to draw conclusions based on your incorrect facts there's no follow through.

You are the one arguing. I was just pointing out that there are differences in build methods that might lead to ride quality in rough water. I never meant to imply one build method was better than another nor waste your time. I apologize for that and many posts ago I said I conceded. Do you want a kidney as well?

The up to 20 layers of glass is on a video similar to the marketing type video you posted. You can watch it if you want and it makes the claim of 20 layers and the fact that the the chopper gun is not used on the bottom which is in fact different from Malibu that uses a Chopper Gun, hence my "Chopper gun build" statement. All the tow boat fellas use hand layers. I should have made that more clear. I still think you need to take a tour.

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/videos/2011/03/18/video-mastercraft-boats-factory-tour/

But I appreciate the zero logic feedback.

[trobinson]

My only complaint about the 2016 25 LSV is the Igloo cooler with the Malibu logo doesn't have a built in drain!

[ibelonginprison]

My only complaint about the 2016 25 LSV is the Igloo cooler with the Malibu logo doesn't have a built in drain!

Use a ballast drain pump and drop it in there.

You're welcome

[trobinson]

Use a ballast drain pump and drop it in there.

You're welcome

Would use up entirely too much of my adult beverage storage!