Why 2016 Wakesetter LSV over MC X30

[The Hulk]

How does the heights or depths compare?

[IXFE]

Since this is about the X30 vs LSV, we know that the X30 is 200 pounds heavier and a few inches shorter than the LSV. We also know that the Malibu is a chopper gun build vs hand laid. So safe to assume that the X30 has a bit more glass?

Come on guys. Trying hard not to sound biased here. But is it really so hard to check your facts?

From the Malibu Factory Tour video...

http://youtu.be/l6lHEkLcIKI

"(Immediately following gel coat)... then comes the vinyl exoblend resin skin coat, a step skipped by the rest of the industry. This layer adds stiffness to the hull while also hiding the fiberglass mesh of the next layer. Your boat will look outstanding with no print through.

"After the gel coat and the skin coat, EIGHT layers of various knits and weights of woven fiberglass are skillfully HAND LAID. No one else in the industry tales the time to do this, and other manufacturers stop at SIX layers.

"In addition Malibu sound supression technology is laminated into every hull."

Does this really look like chopper gun to you?

[ibelonginprison]

sooooo... what does religion have to do with IXFE being right?

[ahopkins22LSV]

I came into this thread because I know the alleged guy who has owned both and was going to offer what I feel his input would be and my opinion on the boats. But then I read that hulk said he can push on the hull and feel the difference in flex between nautique and Malibu. I honestly don't know what to say to that.

Edited September 3, 2015 by ahopkinsTXi

[3sport]

Really? Can't stick to the facts so we're going with religious attacks and name calling now?

Cool...

Show me one place where I was less than factual (other than where I've characterized you or given my opinions on the tenor of some of your posts). Try not to mistake me for hulk. I've never defended the veracity of his statements - I don't think I've even given him a "like" post (which, full disclosure, I agree with you and think was easier in tapatalk).

[oldjeep]

I came into this thread because I know the alleged guy who has owned both and was going to offer what I feel his input would be and my opinion on the boats. But then I read that hulk said he can push on the hull and feel the difference in flex between nautique and Malibu. I honestly don't know what to say to that.

I agree, everyone knows you don't squeeze a haul, you thump it like a melon

[ibelonginprison]

I came into this thread because I know the alleged guy who has owned both and was going to offer what I feel his input would be and my opinion on the boats. But then I read that hulk said he can push on the hull and feel the difference in flex between nautique and Malibu. I honestly don't know what to say to that.

He is hulk.

Hulk smash on hull.

And - bringing up religion is pretty jacked up. Keep the insults to boat knowledge. (Or the apparent lack of)

[IXFE]

Show me one place where I was less than factual (other than where I've characterized you or given my opinions on the tenor of some of your posts). Try not to mistake me for hulk. I've never defended the veracity of his statements - I don't think I've even given him a "like" post (which, full disclosure, I agree with you and think was easier in tapatalk).

You're mistaking my sarcasm with vitriol.

Can't I have a little fun when I call a guy out for posting obvious untruths as fact?

[IXFE]

I came into this thread because I know the alleged guy who has owned both and was going to offer what I feel his input would be and my opinion on the boats. But then I read that hulk said he can push on the hull and feel the difference in flex between nautique and Malibu. I honestly don't know what to say to that.

You know... I was gonna post a video of myself pushing all my 175lbs. into the side of my 23 LSV. But I'm slowly realizing nobody really wants true facts. Making stuff up is apparently more entertaining.

For those who care, there's zero flex. But whatever.

[The Hulk]

• The fiberglass in a Nautique is "much thicker" than in a Malibu (disputed by IXFE here)
  • in many areas it is.. in some corners it seems especially. thats why i was questioning how the MC compares so ppl on here can learn. when prying on some areas of the boat it seemed like many areas were more stiff, they are not important areas IMO i just something i noticed when viewing at the shows, taking seats out and looking them all over, thats why i'm curious how the MC are. taking factory weight specs and TRYING to calculate amount of glass is impossible again unless you can calculate the surface area of the glass and the volume and weight. You would need the 3D cad files to determine such things for both boats just because they are both the same general 23ft boat does not mean anything for comparing amount of glass or thickness. Strength has a lot to do with other issues such as bulk-head style supports, other supports , the amount of distance the fiberglass spans without corners or other supports, the weight of the fiber mesh, do they cross lay it and cloth styles etc..where the little bit of carbon is as well that thankfully some of the mfgs are doing. boat hull shape can make a difference just like a flat piece of paper is not strong but putting a crease in it makes it stronger etc.. my observation was just pushing and pulling on various parts of the boats to compare.

The fiberglass in a Nautique is "reinforced" under the tower whereas the Malibu's is not (disputed by 85 Barefoot here)

• of course they are all going to be reinforced under the tower area, My point was the Nt is spreading this out over a little wider area via tower design, perhaps there is some bulk-head style supports closer to this area as well internally that might help ? dont know. the 2013 BU spans a bit of distance for the top deck area, cant comment on the others, in chop the top deck part that starts coming down towards the cup holders will vibrate a tad in rough chop. with the Bu tower leaning fwd (without towing someone) the majority of the weight and forces are on the front half of the tower base as the tower would fall fwd if it wasnt bolted to the hull. these forces "could" over time start kinking in the deck (pulling up the back and pushing down on the front) which would stress the fiberglass a lot more than if the tower was centrally balanced. Obviously they are strong enough as engineered to hold the majority of normal forces. but Hulk like things that can handle hulk forces when hulk spend lot money.

Malibu uses a "butt mount" construction method as opposed to "shoe box" (disputed by Bamabonners h

• Hulk be wrong this one, i'll admit i was going off my push test on the hull and noticed a significant difference.

Edited September 3, 2015 by The Hulk

[Tims]

Come on guys. Trying hard not to sound biased here. But is it really so hard to check your facts?

From the Malibu Factory Tour video...

http://youtu.be/l6lHEkLcIKI

"(Immediately following gel coat)... then comes the vinyl exoblend resin skin coat, a step skipped by the rest of the industry. This layer adds stiffness to the hull while also hiding the fiberglass mesh of the next layer. Your boat will look outstanding with no print through.

"After the gel coat and the skin coat, EIGHT layers of various knits and weights of woven fiberglass are skillfully HAND LAID. No one else in the industry tales the time to do this, and other manufacturers stop at SIX layers.

"In addition Malibu sound supression technology is laminated into every hull."

Does this really look like chopper gun to you?

I love how the video showed the chopper gun being used. If you have not yet, I recommend you take a tour of both plants to see the differences in construction. Malibu uses chopper gun for initial layers to prevent print through while MC uses some kind of ceramic spray then uses all pre cut sheets (up to 20 something layers). I never said one technique was better than the other, simply that they are different and that Mastercraft hulls tend to be a bit heavier and perhaps one of the reasons why they seem to handle the chop better.

And perhaps things are different since I toured the plants. Manufacturing techniques change all the time due to engineering and material updates. Both MC and Malibu build a great boat, but there are differences in construction between the 2; FACT.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Tims

[TenTwentyOne]

I love how the video showed the chopper gun being used. If you have not yet, I recommend you take a tour of both plants to see the differences in construction. Malibu uses chopper gun for initial layers to prevent print through while MC uses some kind of ceramic spray then uses all pre cut sheets (up to 20 something layers). I never said one technique was better than the other, simply that they are different and that Mastercraft hulls tend to be a bit heavier and perhaps one of the reasons why they seem to handle the chop better.

And perhaps things are different since I toured the plants. Manufacturing techniques change all the time due to engineering and material updates. Both MC and Malibu build a great boat, but there are differences in construction between the 2; FACT.

I toured them both in 2013 and 2014. I took note of a couple structural/construction differences. That said, I didn't notice any structural deficiencies..... In either brand.

I really want to get down to Orlando at some point.

[saxton15]

I need to try this "push" test...

[23LSVOwner]

Since this is about the X30 vs LSV, we know that the X30 is 200 pounds heavier and a few inches shorter than the LSV. We also know that the Malibu is a chopper gun build vs hand laid. So safe to assume that the X30 has a bit more glass? Perhaps that is why they ride a bit better in the chop. Both hulls will go the distance, but the MC usually gets high marks for ride in the chop and low marks for handling vs the LSV.

Things to consider. Personally, I would rather have the better handling.

BS on that. The only chop is the skin coat which MC does as well. Everything else is hand laid. I've been to both factories and am pretty intimate on the build for both brands.

k, thx, bye.

[23LSVOwner]

I love how the video showed the chopper gun being used. If you have not yet, I recommend you take a tour of both plants to see the differences in construction. Malibu uses chopper gun for initial layers to prevent print through while MC uses some kind of ceramic spray then uses all pre cut sheets (up to 20 something layers). I never said one technique was better than the other, simply that they are different and that Mastercraft hulls tend to be a bit heavier and perhaps one of the reasons why they seem to handle the chop better.

And perhaps things are different since I toured the plants. Manufacturing techniques change all the time due to engineering and material updates. Both MC and Malibu build a great boat, but there are differences in construction between the 2; FACT.

MC also uses the chopper gun as well. It goes on before the heat barrier(ceramic spray).

[gordon20mxz]

Sometimes I find it amusing that we think we know more about building boats than the engineers that work for the companies and build boats for a living. They have years of experience with design and testing and now using computer models that help them do it right. I think they know how to build a hull and they know where the stress points are. Any particular section of a hull only has to be designed to withstand the stress that is predicted for the area of the hull combined with experience that validates the engineering predictions. Significantly over building any section is of no benefit and would not be noticeable by the end user in real life usage. I give a "shout out" to the Malibu engineers and give them credit for doing a good job!

[Tims]

^^^Perhaps you are right. There are no differences in construction. I concede. I tried my best to state one was not better than the other.

[Indyxc]

Not worth much.

However, having own both a Malibu (VLX) and Mastercraft (x2), from the some area, the materials and build quality were comparable, but not in the same class. The MC was far better, in terms of materials, level of detail, design elements, and construction. You pay for what you get.

[gordon20mxz]

^^^Perhaps you are right. There are no differences in construction. I concede. I tried my best to state one was not better than the other.

Tims,

I am not saying I am right. There may indeed be differences in construction. But building boats is not like building space hardware at NASA, where the limits of engineering are taken to the max and the testing is taken to the max. There is art and science in building boats. I am just saying that I believe the high end boat companies are trying to build a good product, but they also have to meet some prices points. To do that, they have to do their best to engineer and design to acceptable limits. I think they are wise enough to consider, if they have to cut costs somewhere, they are not going to cut costs on the hull. There will do it in other non-crucial areas. They want happy customers and solid boats.

[gordon20mxz]

Not worth much.

However, having own both a Malibu (VLX) and Mastercraft (x2), from the some area, the materials and build quality were comparable, but not in the same class. The MC was far better, in terms of materials, level of detail, design elements, and construction. You pay for what you get.

You owned a VLX and an X2 so you can make a direct comparison, IF, you owned the same model years of both boats at the same time. Otherwise it's not a fair comparison because quality issues and materials change from year to year.

"materials and build quality were comparable, but not in the same class" you can say this without an argument from me regarding materials and design elements, but the latest discussions in this thread revolve around hull construction and no one has presented data that the Master Craft hull is built better. It maybe built a little differently, but no evidence that is is better.

Edited September 3, 2015 by gordon20mxz

[IXFE]

I love how the video showed the chopper gun being used. If you have not yet, I recommend you take a tour of both plants to see the differences in construction. Malibu uses chopper gun for initial layers to prevent print through while MC uses some kind of ceramic spray then uses all pre cut sheets (up to 20 something layers). I never said one technique was better than the other, simply that they are different and that Mastercraft hulls tend to be a bit heavier and perhaps one of the reasons why they seem to handle the chop better.

And perhaps things are different since I toured the plants. Manufacturing techniques change all the time due to engineering and material updates. Both MC and Malibu build a great boat, but there are differences in construction between the 2; FACT.

The Malibu video says they use 8 layers of hand laid glass. You say MC uses "20 something" layers.

Are you honestly saying that an MC hull is at least 150% thicker than a Bu hull?

Edited September 3, 2015 by IXFE

[TenTwentyOne]

BS on that. The only chop is the skin coat which MC does as well. Everything else is hand laid. I've been to both factories and am pretty intimate on the build for both brands.

k, thx, bye.

At the time in which I toured them (both times), MC was only using the chopper gun on the top deck assy, which was also primarily hand layed. The hulls were only hand layed..... And they were most certainly putting the barrier coat between the gel and the fiberglass.

[Tims]

The Malibu video says they use 8 layers of hand laid glass. You say MC uses 20 layers.

Are you honestly saying that an MC hull is 150% thicker than a Bu hull?

Nope. I have no idea what the thickness is of each hull. MC claims to use up to 20 layers but I don't know where. I have been to both plants, but even a tour provides just a snapshot to a build process which is why I will concede. I know what I saw at both factories but perhaps I missed some steps, was provided misinformation, or things have changed in the last few years.

Most folks that have ridden in a late model X30 and LSV seem to come away with the same conclusions related to rough water ride and I was just trying to provide a POSSIBLE reason and offer differences between the 2 boats.

[Tims]

At the time in which I toured them (both times), MC was only using the chopper gun on the top deck assy, which was also primarily hand layed. The hulls were only hand layed..... And they were most certainly putting the barrier coat between the gel and the fiberglass.

Exactly what I saw.

[IXFE]

Malibu doesn't hide using a "gun" in their factory tour or on the video. It's used for the barrier after the gel had gone down. They follow that with the hand laid glass.

I'm struggling to understand how guys think that's bad?

As for rough water ride, I doubt very much it has anything to hull thickness (go back to the math). Probably more related to hull shape. Malibu's are basically ski boats on the bottom. This is my opinion on the matter... an opinion that's informed by math. LOL