Piggy back system reviews

[gobble]

I get the extra vent, although I don't quite understand what that achieves. You lose a drain line in that picture though. I had tried a fill into the tank without the drain Y, with the overflow from the tank filling the bag only with the other drain line. Draining time was extremely slow with only one drain line from the bag to the tank.

[MLA]

Its not an extra vent, but rather restoring the tanks original vent. No lines where removes, just rerouted. 

How did the drain time increase? Did the drain pump clear the tank faster than the water gravity drained from the sac to the tank? This would be indicated by drain flow coming to a stop, then starting again. If thats the case, then run the sacs gravity drain line to the drain pump inlet as I stated earlier.  

[gobble]

11 minutes ago, MLA said:

How did the drain time increase? Did the drain pump clear the tank faster than the water gravity drained from the sac to the tank? This would be indicated by drain flow coming to a stop, then starting again. If thats the case, then run the sacs gravity drain line to the drain pump inlet as I stated earlier.  

Yes, there was a lot of sputtering at the end. I didn't dig for the drain pump but think that would work too.

[SnubNose]

Hmm so MLS system adds another drain pump? Very confused on MLS SYSTEM. If gobble system doesnt air lock hard tank then why are we concerned with changing the vent ? However, I do like the idea of having the original vent line instead of running vent through the sac but it seems much more complicated. 

[gobble]

I don't quite get it either. If the purpose of the vent is to prevent air lock and drain any overfill, what's wrong with venting through the bag if it works? I think that just essentially makes the tank larger (includes bag volume) for the purpose of venting.

[MLA]

On 8/3/2016 at 10:49 PM, FBL3 said:

but hard tanks will not fill even to 25% while sitting at the dock.  Hard tanks will sometimes fill completely if I go out and run around on the lake. But no consistency.  Sometimes they fill, sometimes they don't.  Sometimes one side and not the other

 

1 hour ago, gobble said:

what's wrong with venting through the bag if it works?

This is where I jumped in. The tank filling issue that FBL3 is experiencing, is likely due to venting through the sac. 

[SnubNose]

1 minute ago, MLA said:

 

This is where I jumped in. The tank filling issue that FBL3 is experiencing, is likely due to venting through the sac. 

FBL3 is having problems with the original system, not with gobble system. 

[MLA]

31 minutes ago, SnubNose said:

FBL3 is having problems with the original system, not with gobble system. 

Thats for him to clarify. He posted up stating he has a tank filling issue after doing a piggy back earlier this summer. Jcon44 states he has the same system and is also having issues with tanks filling. 

Just offering some observations and suggestions for those with plumbing issues. If someones piggyback system is working fine, then I guess im not addressing you. Gobble ask for further details on what I was referring to, so I provided them. That should not be taken as he needs to change his system thats working fine. 

[gobble]

I think everyone in this thread, including me, is/was having problems with the original, as sold, Wakemakers system. We kicked around some solutions and the one that seems to work is inserting that Y to fill into the drain line.

[mburk]

I just installed my system with the 1100lb bags last week....same problem guys. Hard tank filling is hit or miss. It works great when it works, but that's the crap shoot. I was thinking of a very similar design to the modifications you guys talked about. I was thinking about using the Bakes' directional valves and just splitting the the fill line - 1 going up to the top, the other splicing into the front drain line from the bag to tank. This way I can have the valve closed to the bag and ensure the tank is filled first. Any air should vent into the bag from the rear drain line (I think/hope). Once it's full I'll just flip the valve and begin filling the bag. Water will still be able to drain through both bag drain lines into the hard tank.

Has anyone gone this route? Kind of sucks to spend another $100 on two directional valves but this should, in theory, be the best of both worlds between the Wakemakers and Bake's kits. The drain times are fine for me. I don't mind waiting 10 minutes and don't feel like adding more pumps...one more thing to replace, maintain, etc...

[gobble]

I considered that route but Bakes only sells 3/4" valves and my plumbing is 1 1/8". I thought keep the valve closed until the hard tanks are full then open it to possibly fill the bags faster. I think I even have a picture to that effect somewhere in the thread. I've passed on the idea for the minute it might save when filling.

[mburk]

Right on, make sense. I have an '08 so everything is 3/4" still. I'm glad to see there's somewhat of a hack fix here since Wakemakers hasn't gotten back to me on this. 

[gobble]

I had an 08 and did what Wakemakers calls super piggyback with an extra drain pump. Search that term and you'll find a schematic. It worked well.

[mburk]

Yeah, I explored that option. I really don't want to add in more pumps (fine with the drain/fill times as is) and feel this option or just the simply "y" option will allow more flexibility in the system so I can still use just the hard tanks/MLS presets for wakeboarding. Great thread! Hopefully Wakemaker's ends up addressing the issues here.

[FBL3]

The piggyback I bought and installed is the "new" version.   According to Wakemakers, they had a 23' LSV as their shop boat (Same as mine) and designed the original piggyback system around it - and then resigned it to speed up drain times. Spencer told me the hard tanks in their boat stopped right where the barbed fitting are for hard tank - basically the hard tanks were only located beneath the floor of the lockers. Again, according to them, Malibu redesigned the tanks and now the tanks extend further up under the floor beneath the rear seats.    The Wakemakers folks believe the air lock issue has to do with the shape of the newer tank.  If you remove the back seats, you can see that my tanks do extend further up.  Wakemakers continues to say they think this is the problem.  

I researched both Wakemakers and bakes systems before purchase. For me, I wanted convenience over speed so I chose Wakemakers. Push 2 buttons and I'm done. No opening hatches, no turning valves open or closed, etc.. If I was into all that I would just throw a pump over the side.  I guess I should quit complaining about the problem and work on a solution. Very frustrating though. 

[mburk]

That's exactly why I went with the wakemakers kit - convenience. The reality of it is the hard tank will not fill up all the way first. I really was convinced the water from the bag would all drain into the tank, but it just doesn't happen. I want to be able to use my MLS presets for wakeboarding and I like knowing that the hard tank is 1/2 full, 3/4, etc... I think the solution is building a raised platform for the bags (I'd probably use star board for this) to sit on top of so Gravity is more on your side as well as doing the "y" connector and/or the directional valves (if you want full control over tanks vs bags). I ordered all the parts tonight. I'll post pics and report back how it works. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by mburk

[FBL3]

I used some rubber mats from Costco to build mine up about 3".  Fit pretty well and easy to take out if wet.  Downside is I can't fill bags up all the way because the bags are now taller than locker  

Has anyone thought the venting problem might be that the check valve in the vent hose from the bag to the thru hull is not working properly?  Wakemakers says these are 1 psi check valves but I find them pretty sticky to open. One Wakemakers guy even told me they had to replace some vent hoses because the check valves were getting stuck.   Just a thought. I'm handy but not an engineer. 

[minnmarker]

23 minutes ago, FBL3 said:

 Wakemakers says these are 1 psi check valves but I find them pretty sticky to open. One Wakemakers guy even told me they had to replace some vent hoses because the check valves were getting stuck.   Just a thought. I'm handy but not an engineer. 

I don't have a horse in this race but 1 psi is equivalent to a 27 inch water column - so it will not open until it has the equivalent of over 2 feet of water pressure.  Not sure if this will affect your piggy back systems but it certainly is not like filling up an open barrel.

[mburk]

That's pretty interesting. Why even have the check valves? If routed high enough, water shouldn't work its way through them anyways. 

[pedel]

Jenny at WM sent this:

Jenny (WakeMAKERS.com)

Aug 1, 11:20 AM PDT 

Hi Paul,

Thanks for calling us at WakeMAKERS! The issue that's getting referred to is the check valve to let the air vent. Basically, the check valve releases at 1 PSI, so it seems like it doesn't want to release the air but it will once it hits a certain pressure. This will work better and better after a few uses, or you can take an air compressor to it to loosen it up a bit.

We are hunting for a different part that would be 0.5 PSI but haven't found the perfect replacement yet. This will be our fix to it, but for now, it's not a problem, just a part that is a little tough to get used to right out of the box.

Let us know if you have anything else we can assist you with!

Thanks,

Jenny
Customer Advocate

 

[dalt1]

8 minutes ago, pedel said:

Jenny at WM sent this:

Jenny (WakeMAKERS.com)

Aug 1, 11:20 AM PDT 

Hi Paul,

Thanks for calling us at WakeMAKERS! The issue that's getting referred to is the check valve to let the air vent. Basically, the check valve releases at 1 PSI, so it seems like it doesn't want to release the air but it will once it hits a certain pressure. This will work better and better after a few uses, or you can take an air compressor to it to loosen it up a bit.

We are hunting for a different part that would be 0.5 PSI but haven't found the perfect replacement yet. This will be our fix to it, but for now, it's not a problem, just a part that is a little tough to get used to right out of the box.

Let us know if you have anything else we can assist you with!

Thanks,

Jenny
Customer Advocate

 

I just talked to them Tuesday and they just told me they were working on it and would let me know. No specifics though.

 

[FBL3]

If I understand it correctly, the check valve is in the vent line to prevent water from leaking out if the top of your bag is higher than the thru hull opening.  My bag when mostly full is higher than thru hull opening. Without valve your bag would never fill all the way up.

[mburk]

Ah, makes sense then. The systems not too far off from being a good one, it just needs some minor tweaks that I wish Wakemakers would address.

[timelinex]

Woah, I haven't logged in here for a while and just noticed this thread took off. It sucks to hear you guys are having issues. Especially since I really recommended the product.

So whats the actual issue? From my understanding the hard tanks aren't filling up or are slow to fill up for you guys? Is this an issue because your getting gipped 200ish pounds of possible weight, or because it's causing draining issues?

I honestly don't know if my hard tank is filling up all the way or not, the sensor systems have never been that accurate so I don't even look at them. Unless it's causing an actual draining issues, I don't see how it's too big of a deal though. I've got an 1100LB bag back there and while I have come close while playing around, I have probably never filled up more than 80% of it anyways. Then when it's time to drain it at the end of the day, it almost fully drains with no problems.

[mburk]

For me, the issue is the hard tanks aren't filling up consistently- some days they fill all the way up, some days they only fill up 1/4 of the way, or not at all. I had a draining issue on the first day I had them installed but that has since gone away.  I have 1100lb bags which I'll never run full anyways, so the 200lbs or so isn't a problem to me. We like to wakeboard and I like knowing the hard tanks are all the way full so I have a decent idea of how much weight is back there. Right now, I'm just eyeballing how full each bag is so if one tank is half full and the other is all the way it can be a little tricky. Not an enormous deal by any means, I just want to flexibility to use the hard tanks full (and know they are full) and then add incremental weight from there using the bags.